Encouragement for new applicants searching for a school
Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:39 pm
I am starting this thread as a follow up to my thread from 2015 where I sought out advice on this forum. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=245041 I just wanted to give some encouragement to those who are unsure as they begin their law school journey.
Short version:
I am starting my 3L year and I wanted to provide some encouragement to those who are beginning their law school experience.
I went to law school with a personal situation that was not ideal. I had a wife and 3 kids which makes foregoing 3 years of income a very tough pill to swallow. My undergrad grades were pretty poor and I did ok on my first LSAT attempt. Several people, here and elsewhere, suggested that law school was foolish. I went anyway.
I finished my Fall semester 3rd in the class (graded on to law review), 1st in Spring and 2nd overall for the year. I am currently second in my class and I have booked 4 classes so far.
I just started my 3L year and accepted a job offer for a respected firm after participating in their summer associate program. I have
Don't let other people dictate your outcomes. You know yourself and your abilities. Nothing is guaranteed, of course, but you control your attitude and your effort. People who say you can't may mean well, or they may just be nasty people, but the bottom line is that they don't know.
It may ultimately be that they are right and your law school experience will suck and put you in debt and crush your soul. But there will always be a top of the class too. You have to decide if you are willing and prepared to do what it takes to get yourself in the top.
LONG VERSION
background:
Understand that this is my experience and, obviously, is not the experience of MOST people. However, looking at my numbers, I don't think many people would have looked at my application and thought I was going to thrive in law school. The point of this is to encourage people to pursue their goals with the understanding of how much work it takes to succeed.
So this is what happened to me.
2.5 years ago I created a thread back when I was still deciding which school to attend. Here... http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=245041
Several commenters suggested that law school was a not a good choice. Some said it was irresponsible.
I don't doubt their sincerity, but sincerity is often overrated. Despite their advice, I went to law school in Fall of 2015. I had 3 kids going into law school and enough in savings to nearly replace one year of my annual income.
1L:
In fall of my 1L year I worked on the weekends and went to class at least 4 days per week. Every school day I commuted nearly an hour to school, I arrived at school around 6 a.m. I went to the library and read and prepared for class. I didn't play intramurals or go to clubs, my time on campus was focused on my finals and grades. I headed home around 6 pm for the hour-long drive home. I worked on Fridays and weekends. I only used weekends for law school activities in the last 2 weeks of the semester to finalize my writing Memo.
In spring I had class 5 days per week. 3 of those days I followed the same schedule as fall. The other 2 days I arrived later because I didn't have morning classes. I still worked every weekend save the last 2 of the semester when I finalized my brief. I graded on to law review based on my fall grades (3rd in the class). I finished the semester and finished 1st in the class for the semester, 2nd overall.
I did not use any supplements. I took notes and did practice problems to submit to the teachers. The professor's opinion is the only one that matters so figure out what they like and write your answers the way they want them. Grading is necessarily going to be somewhat subjective, no matter what may be done to make it more objective, so do everything you can to write the way that the professor likes. Review old exams and sample answers and submit your own.
We brought a fourth child into our family at the end of the semester.
I did an federal district court internship in Summer and worked as a law clerk.
OCI:
Then came OCIs, which were challenging for me. I applied to 11 firms, I had 7 interviews, only 2 call backs, and 1 offer for a summer associate position (where I eventually accepted a job after graduation). Several people that did significantly worse than me were offered interviews that I wasn't. I am certain that my age and stage of life (father and a decade+ older than every other applicant) was seen as a detriment by some (many?) firms. "Old father of 4" is not the kind of diversity they are looking for BUT if you are a diversity candidate you should definitely apply to firms even if you are on the bottom end of their ranking requests (even outside of them) because the clients inquire about diversity numbers so the firms are interested in diversity candidates.
The whole process was frustrating and I miscalculated how my non-academic situation would be received. Regardless of that, I am happy with the firm I ultimately ended up with since I will get to begin doing actual litigation work right away, not just writing memos for years.
2L:
I continued my clerk job throughout my 2L year. I was not on campus as often but I arrived early and then went to my clerk position in the afternoons. I still did my other job on the weekends. I finished the 2L year 2nd in my class using the same strategy as my 1L year.
My summer associate position was great. They appreciated my experience and I have no doubt that I will be able to hit the ground running after the bar. I won the best advocate award at our firm wide summer associate mock trial at the end of the summer and I accepted a job on my last day.
3L:
I just began 3L year and I will have a full Fall but I will only need 5 credits in spring. I have much less money in my bank account but I will be in a great position after I graduate.
Short version:
I am starting my 3L year and I wanted to provide some encouragement to those who are beginning their law school experience.
I went to law school with a personal situation that was not ideal. I had a wife and 3 kids which makes foregoing 3 years of income a very tough pill to swallow. My undergrad grades were pretty poor and I did ok on my first LSAT attempt. Several people, here and elsewhere, suggested that law school was foolish. I went anyway.
I finished my Fall semester 3rd in the class (graded on to law review), 1st in Spring and 2nd overall for the year. I am currently second in my class and I have booked 4 classes so far.
I just started my 3L year and accepted a job offer for a respected firm after participating in their summer associate program. I have
Don't let other people dictate your outcomes. You know yourself and your abilities. Nothing is guaranteed, of course, but you control your attitude and your effort. People who say you can't may mean well, or they may just be nasty people, but the bottom line is that they don't know.
It may ultimately be that they are right and your law school experience will suck and put you in debt and crush your soul. But there will always be a top of the class too. You have to decide if you are willing and prepared to do what it takes to get yourself in the top.
LONG VERSION
background:
Understand that this is my experience and, obviously, is not the experience of MOST people. However, looking at my numbers, I don't think many people would have looked at my application and thought I was going to thrive in law school. The point of this is to encourage people to pursue their goals with the understanding of how much work it takes to succeed.
So this is what happened to me.
2.5 years ago I created a thread back when I was still deciding which school to attend. Here... http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=245041
Several commenters suggested that law school was a not a good choice. Some said it was irresponsible.
I don't doubt their sincerity, but sincerity is often overrated. Despite their advice, I went to law school in Fall of 2015. I had 3 kids going into law school and enough in savings to nearly replace one year of my annual income.
1L:
In fall of my 1L year I worked on the weekends and went to class at least 4 days per week. Every school day I commuted nearly an hour to school, I arrived at school around 6 a.m. I went to the library and read and prepared for class. I didn't play intramurals or go to clubs, my time on campus was focused on my finals and grades. I headed home around 6 pm for the hour-long drive home. I worked on Fridays and weekends. I only used weekends for law school activities in the last 2 weeks of the semester to finalize my writing Memo.
In spring I had class 5 days per week. 3 of those days I followed the same schedule as fall. The other 2 days I arrived later because I didn't have morning classes. I still worked every weekend save the last 2 of the semester when I finalized my brief. I graded on to law review based on my fall grades (3rd in the class). I finished the semester and finished 1st in the class for the semester, 2nd overall.
I did not use any supplements. I took notes and did practice problems to submit to the teachers. The professor's opinion is the only one that matters so figure out what they like and write your answers the way they want them. Grading is necessarily going to be somewhat subjective, no matter what may be done to make it more objective, so do everything you can to write the way that the professor likes. Review old exams and sample answers and submit your own.
We brought a fourth child into our family at the end of the semester.
I did an federal district court internship in Summer and worked as a law clerk.
OCI:
Then came OCIs, which were challenging for me. I applied to 11 firms, I had 7 interviews, only 2 call backs, and 1 offer for a summer associate position (where I eventually accepted a job after graduation). Several people that did significantly worse than me were offered interviews that I wasn't. I am certain that my age and stage of life (father and a decade+ older than every other applicant) was seen as a detriment by some (many?) firms. "Old father of 4" is not the kind of diversity they are looking for BUT if you are a diversity candidate you should definitely apply to firms even if you are on the bottom end of their ranking requests (even outside of them) because the clients inquire about diversity numbers so the firms are interested in diversity candidates.
The whole process was frustrating and I miscalculated how my non-academic situation would be received. Regardless of that, I am happy with the firm I ultimately ended up with since I will get to begin doing actual litigation work right away, not just writing memos for years.
2L:
I continued my clerk job throughout my 2L year. I was not on campus as often but I arrived early and then went to my clerk position in the afternoons. I still did my other job on the weekends. I finished the 2L year 2nd in my class using the same strategy as my 1L year.
My summer associate position was great. They appreciated my experience and I have no doubt that I will be able to hit the ground running after the bar. I won the best advocate award at our firm wide summer associate mock trial at the end of the summer and I accepted a job on my last day.
3L:
I just began 3L year and I will have a full Fall but I will only need 5 credits in spring. I have much less money in my bank account but I will be in a great position after I graduate.