Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

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Kcaz555
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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby Kcaz555 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:32 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Kcaz555 wrote:The scholarship in question is not a typical scholarship where you have to stay above the median. Its only condition, rather, is that its recipient maintain at least a 2.2 GPA.


*sigh*

What's the median at Hofstra? And how many students retain their scholarships after 1L?

Your plan is ridiculous and arrogant beyond words, but your scholarship is likely pretty typical.


Its a 3.1 - 3.3 median, so 50 percent of the class will lose at least some of their scholarship if they are on that condition. The scholarship we are discussing here however is based on the condition that the recipient maintain a 2.2..not a typical scholly *sigh*

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby chargers21 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:42 pm

Quote from a real, current King and Spalding job listing. "Excellent academic credentials from a top-tier law school required." Just gonna leave that here...

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby Kcaz555 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:50 pm

chargers21 wrote:Quote from a real, current King and Spalding job listing. "Excellent academic credentials from a top-tier law school required." Just gonna leave that here...


thank god its not a fake, past job listing man good looks

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby UVA2B » Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:52 pm

Kcaz555 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Kcaz555 wrote:The scholarship in question is not a typical scholarship where you have to stay above the median. Its only condition, rather, is that its recipient maintain at least a 2.2 GPA.


*sigh*

What's the median at Hofstra? And how many students retain their scholarships after 1L?

Your plan is ridiculous and arrogant beyond words, but your scholarship is likely pretty typical.


Its a 3.1 - 3.3 median, so 50 percent of the class will lose at least some of their scholarship if they are on that condition. The scholarship we are discussing here however is based on the condition that the recipient maintain a 2.2..not a typical scholly *sigh*


This doesn't make sense. Is it a 3.1 or a 3.3? Given 1L classes, a school can pretty accurately establish a forced curve. And your conditional scholarship may state a 2.2 GPA, but that's still relative to how many lose their scholarships (regardless of whether you think you scholarship is different for Hofstra for whatever reason).

I've said it from the start: Hofstra is the less bad option, and I think you agree with that. But just realize that your goals are unlikely, and backup options will be varied even though you won't be going into much debt. You have to be comfortable with that.

Going to Hofstra is a decent decision for you, given the universe of information you've provided, but just realize that your current sole goal probably won't be achieved, all things considered. And I say that knowing full well that a few previous posters were unnecessarily hyperbolic about nepotism and other credentials. As long as you're comfortable with more modest outcomes, good luck at Hofstra and I hope you reach your goals.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby Kcaz555 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:12 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Kcaz555 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Kcaz555 wrote:The scholarship in question is not a typical scholarship where you have to stay above the median. Its only condition, rather, is that its recipient maintain at least a 2.2 GPA.


*sigh*

What's the median at Hofstra? And how many students retain their scholarships after 1L?

Your plan is ridiculous and arrogant beyond words, but your scholarship is likely pretty typical.


Its a 3.1 - 3.3 median, so 50 percent of the class will lose at least some of their scholarship if they are on that condition. The scholarship we are discussing here however is based on the condition that the recipient maintain a 2.2..not a typical scholly *sigh*


This doesn't make sense. Is it a 3.1 or a 3.3? Given 1L classes, a school can pretty accurately establish a forced curve. And your conditional scholarship may state a 2.2 GPA, but that's still relative to how many lose their scholarships (regardless of whether you think you scholarship is different for Hofstra for whatever reason).

I've said it from the start: Hofstra is the less bad option, and I think you agree with that. But just realize that your goals are unlikely, and backup options will be varied even though you won't be going into much debt. You have to be comfortable with that.

Going to Hofstra is a decent decision for you, given the universe of information you've provided, but just realize that your current sole goal probably won't be achieved, all things considered. And I say that knowing full well that a few previous posters were unnecessarily hyperbolic about nepotism and other credentials. As long as you're comfortable with more modest outcomes, good luck at Hofstra and I hope you reach your goals.


thats all the info i could find from previous years so i didnt really know what to say but the point i was trying to show was a 2.2 is different from a 3.1-3.3 (whatever it may be this year) i appreciate the words though and how you responded on this post when you could have hopped on the bandwagon

just a side note; this thread has a lot of negativity in it and id like to eventually delete it if possible but that doesnt seem like a possibilty unless im missing something?

EDIT

i lost the original account so nvm lol

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chargers21
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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby chargers21 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:29 pm

Kcaz555 wrote:
chargers21 wrote:Quote from a real, current King and Spalding job listing. "Excellent academic credentials from a top-tier law school required." Just gonna leave that here...


thank god its not a fake, past job listing man good looks

It wasn't really meant for you, so much as people like you who might stumble across this later. If you want biglaw, firms care where you go and don't even try to hide it.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby lavarman84 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:58 pm

chargers21 wrote:Quote from a real, current King and Spalding job listing. "Excellent academic credentials from a top-tier law school required." Just gonna leave that here...


That doesn't really mean anything. It's boilerplate type language. I think we all recognize that biglaw firms are far more likely to hire from top law schools than anywhere else. However, that doesn't mean they don't hire from anywhere else. K&S certainly does. 19 of their associates in the Atlanta office come from UGA, Georgia State, and Mercer (the top three law schools in Georgia after Emory). Meanwhile, K&S has only 4 total associates in the Atlanta office from Duke, Berkeley, Northwestern, and Cornell.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby lavarman84 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:01 pm

UVA2B wrote:This doesn't make sense. Is it a 3.1 or a 3.3?


Both. My LS's curve was a 3.15 to a 3.25. The mean GPA from the course had to fall within that range. I'm assuming the range at Hofstra is a 3.1 to a 3.3.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby lavarman84 » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:04 pm

Kcaz555 wrote:thats all the info i could find from previous years so i didnt really know what to say but the point i was trying to show was a 2.2 is different from a 3.1-3.3 (whatever it may be this year) i appreciate the words though and how you responded on this post when you could have hopped on the bandwagon


Circling back to the start of the thread, OP, if you can graduate law school debt free, you're in a decent spot. Realistically, your odds of landing in biglaw are very low. It likely won't happen. If you're willing to readjust your goals in LS, you might end up very happy regardless of where you end up. A job making $60,000 starting (with the potential for much more down the line) isn't a bad spot to be in with no debt or very little debt.

Go after biglaw, but have a backup plan ready.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby NotSkadden » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:35 pm

lavarman84 wrote:
Kcaz555 wrote:thats all the info i could find from previous years so i didnt really know what to say but the point i was trying to show was a 2.2 is different from a 3.1-3.3 (whatever it may be this year) i appreciate the words though and how you responded on this post when you could have hopped on the bandwagon


Circling back to the start of the thread, OP, if you can graduate law school debt free, you're in a decent spot. Realistically, your odds of landing in biglaw are very low. It likely won't happen. If you're willing to readjust your goals in LS, you might end up very happy regardless of where you end up. A job making $60,000 starting (with the potential for much more down the line) isn't a bad spot to be in with no debt or very little debt.

Go after biglaw, but have a backup plan ready.


I think this is about right. I've obv not been able to respond to much of this back and forth but I think this is the best advice for OP.

Also, at least 5 Hofstra students in my year are at V20 firms, and even more at other market paying firms (of course this is of ~250 students, so again, chances are slim). That K&S language is boilerplate, and means very little. Things are a bit different now with Pre-OCI interviews.

Just want to also point out that none of us have ever been in the Olympics or anything remotely that unique. Just good grades, and better interviews. That being said, it's not necessarily the top 8% that get BigLaw, as has been pointed out. There are people in the top 15% that got BigLaw, so yes, grades alone won't do it.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby Kcaz555 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:20 am

lavarman84 wrote:
Kcaz555 wrote:thats all the info i could find from previous years so i didnt really know what to say but the point i was trying to show was a 2.2 is different from a 3.1-3.3 (whatever it may be this year) i appreciate the words though and how you responded on this post when you could have hopped on the bandwagon


Circling back to the start of the thread, OP, if you can graduate law school debt free, you're in a decent spot. Realistically, your odds of landing in biglaw are very low. It likely won't happen. If you're willing to readjust your goals in LS, you might end up very happy regardless of where you end up. A job making $60,000 starting (with the potential for much more down the line) isn't a bad spot to be in with no debt or very little debt.

Go after biglaw, but have a backup plan ready.


Yeah I'm going to put it all towards BigLaw but I wont be a complainer if I come out debt free still getting to practice law in a market I like. I appreciate the advice and for understanding what it was I was asking in the very beginning of all this.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby TasmanianToucan » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:45 am

Kcaz555 wrote:

Hey replacement OP! I promise not to try to convince you to do this, but do you mind sharing why you've decided that retaking the LSAT and reapplying next cycle is not an option? I'm honestly just curious as to why you think these are your only options.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:46 am

lavarman84 wrote:That doesn't really mean anything. It's boilerplate type language. I think we all recognize that biglaw firms are far more likely to hire from top law schools than anywhere else. However, that doesn't mean they don't hire from anywhere else. K&S certainly does. 19 of their associates in the Atlanta office come from UGA, Georgia State, and Mercer (the top three law schools in Georgia after Emory). Meanwhile, K&S has only 4 total associates in the Atlanta office from Duke, Berkeley, Northwestern, and Cornell.


I don't know why people keep bringing this shit up like it matters.

Yes, you can end up in biglaw from a school like Hofstra. Kind of like anyone can be president or anyone can win the lottery. And if your only goal (and yes, the OP has repeatedly stated that this is their only goal) is biglaw, why would you go to a school where less than 10% of the class can get it instead of a school where it's the default option for most of the class?

OP has made it clear that they don't want to retake and that they're totally going to outperform 200 other students to be the very best (like no one was before). But other 0Ls may read this thread, and if even one of them walks away thinking, "Oh, I can go to Brooklyn and still have a shot at Cravath, so I'm not going to listen to all the naysayers," then you've done them a huge disservice.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:56 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
lavarman84 wrote:That doesn't really mean anything. It's boilerplate type language. I think we all recognize that biglaw firms are far more likely to hire from top law schools than anywhere else. However, that doesn't mean they don't hire from anywhere else. K&S certainly does. 19 of their associates in the Atlanta office come from UGA, Georgia State, and Mercer (the top three law schools in Georgia after Emory). Meanwhile, K&S has only 4 total associates in the Atlanta office from Duke, Berkeley, Northwestern, and Cornell.


I don't know why people keep bringing this shit up like it matters.

Yes, you can end up in biglaw from a school like Hofstra. Kind of like anyone can be president or anyone can win the lottery. And if your only goal (and yes, the OP has repeatedly stated that this is their only goal) is biglaw, why would you go to a school where less than 10% of the class can get it instead of a school where it's the default option for most of the class?

OP has made it clear that they don't want to retake and that they're totally going to outperform 200 other students to be the very best (like no one was before). But other 0Ls may read this thread, and if even one of them walks away thinking, "Oh, I can go to Brooklyn and still have a shot at Cravath, so I'm not going to listen to all the naysayers," then you've done them a huge disservice.


I'm not worried. You'll be there to spend pages telling those 0Ls how stupid they are. You're the hero that TLS needs but doesn't deserve.

I responded to Chargers' post. You can spare us the hyperbole. You've made your opinion known. The OP isn't interested in listening to your advice.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:02 am

lavarman84 wrote:I'm not worried. You'll be there to spend pages telling those 0Ls how stupid they are. You're the hero that TLS needs but doesn't deserve.

I responded to Chargers' post. You can spare us the hyperbole. You've made your opinion known. The OP isn't interested in listening to your advice.


Do you actively enjoy giving shit advice, or do you just enjoy being contrarian in general?

Genuinely curious, because I don't understand why you think that everyone needs an anonymous stranger to be yet another cheerleader.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby TasmanianToucan » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:11 am

lavarman84 wrote:The OP isn't interested in listening to your advice.

That's pretty obvious, but it still baffles me as to why OP would come here with that attitude (other than standard confirmation bias, I guess). Why would you go somewhere for advice and be upset when you get it? OP sought out TLS and solicited advice. No one here randomly found OP and started giving un-asked-for advice. No one here has a dog in this fight. If those responding thought that the exact parameters for advice given by OP were false or unhelpful, of course they went outside these parameters. Rather than being furious at the "negativity," I hope OP looks long and hard at why so many here found it necessary to reject the "two choices only" version of the situation that OP presented. If many here seemed to jump quickly to an exasperated tone, bear in mind that this is not the first, second, or hundredth time many here have had this exact conversation, and its frustrating to see people to come here seeking advice reject it so flippantly in the face of all available statistical evidence.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:51 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
lavarman84 wrote:I'm not worried. You'll be there to spend pages telling those 0Ls how stupid they are. You're the hero that TLS needs but doesn't deserve.

I responded to Chargers' post. You can spare us the hyperbole. You've made your opinion known. The OP isn't interested in listening to your advice.


Do you actively enjoy giving shit advice, or do you just enjoy being contrarian in general?

Genuinely curious, because I don't understand why you think that everyone needs an anonymous stranger to be yet another cheerleader.


Are you actually butthurt when people disregard your advice, or are you just a condescending person in general?

It's good to know that TLS has the 1L who has it all figured out.

I present people the entire picture in an amicable manner because people are more receptive of opinions when they aren't being insulted and put on the defensive. It's their choice. If they want to take the risk, I'm not going to beat them down for it. It's not my life. I'm not going to change their minds.
Last edited by lavarman84 on Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:56 pm

TasmanianToucan wrote:
lavarman84 wrote:The OP isn't interested in listening to your advice.

That's pretty obvious, but it still baffles me as to why OP would come here with that attitude (other than standard confirmation bias, I guess). Why would you go somewhere for advice and be upset when you get it? OP sought out TLS and solicited advice. No one here randomly found OP and started giving un-asked-for advice. No one here has a dog in this fight. If those responding thought that the exact parameters for advice given by OP were false or unhelpful, of course they went outside these parameters. Rather than being furious at the "negativity," I hope OP looks long and hard at why so many here found it necessary to reject the "two choices only" version of the situation that OP presented. If many here seemed to jump quickly to an exasperated tone, bear in mind that this is not the first, second, or hundredth time many here have had this exact conversation, and its frustrating to see people to come here seeking advice reject it so flippantly in the face of all available statistical evidence.


Yes, he came on here for advice. However, it's also his life. I can advise him of the risks. I can advise him of how unlikely it is. If he still decides to push forward, it leaves me with two options:
1) Answer his question; or
2) Stop posting in the thread.

Too many TLSers choose the third option, beat him over the head with the same advice while hurling insults. It's just not worthwhile.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:20 pm

lavarman84 wrote:
TasmanianToucan wrote:
lavarman84 wrote:The OP isn't interested in listening to your advice.

That's pretty obvious, but it still baffles me as to why OP would come here with that attitude (other than standard confirmation bias, I guess). Why would you go somewhere for advice and be upset when you get it? OP sought out TLS and solicited advice. No one here randomly found OP and started giving un-asked-for advice. No one here has a dog in this fight. If those responding thought that the exact parameters for advice given by OP were false or unhelpful, of course they went outside these parameters. Rather than being furious at the "negativity," I hope OP looks long and hard at why so many here found it necessary to reject the "two choices only" version of the situation that OP presented. If many here seemed to jump quickly to an exasperated tone, bear in mind that this is not the first, second, or hundredth time many here have had this exact conversation, and its frustrating to see people to come here seeking advice reject it so flippantly in the face of all available statistical evidence.


Yes, he came on here for advice. However, it's also his life. I can advise him of the risks. I can advise him of how unlikely it is. If he still decides to push forward, it leaves me with two options:
1) Answer his question; or
2) Stop posting in the thread.

Too many TLSers choose the third option, beat him over the head with the same advice while hurling insults. It's just not worthwhile.


You forgot the clearly superior fourth option of tone-policing everyone else because you just like to stick up for the little guy.

Am I doing it right?

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:51 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
lavarman84 wrote:
TasmanianToucan wrote:
lavarman84 wrote:The OP isn't interested in listening to your advice.

That's pretty obvious, but it still baffles me as to why OP would come here with that attitude (other than standard confirmation bias, I guess). Why would you go somewhere for advice and be upset when you get it? OP sought out TLS and solicited advice. No one here randomly found OP and started giving un-asked-for advice. No one here has a dog in this fight. If those responding thought that the exact parameters for advice given by OP were false or unhelpful, of course they went outside these parameters. Rather than being furious at the "negativity," I hope OP looks long and hard at why so many here found it necessary to reject the "two choices only" version of the situation that OP presented. If many here seemed to jump quickly to an exasperated tone, bear in mind that this is not the first, second, or hundredth time many here have had this exact conversation, and its frustrating to see people to come here seeking advice reject it so flippantly in the face of all available statistical evidence.


Yes, he came on here for advice. However, it's also his life. I can advise him of the risks. I can advise him of how unlikely it is. If he still decides to push forward, it leaves me with two options:
1) Answer his question; or
2) Stop posting in the thread.

Too many TLSers choose the third option, beat him over the head with the same advice while hurling insults. It's just not worthwhile.


You forgot the clearly superior fourth option of tone-policing everyone else because you just like to stick up for the little guy.

Am I doing it right?


If you want to bang your head against a wall, that's your business. But it grows tiresome to read the petulant posts whenever someone refuses to accept your advice as the gospel.

I don't have all the answers. You don't have all the answers. None of us have all the answers. We can present the data. We can explain the risks and the unlikelihood of the reward, but at the end of the day, we can't make the decision for the person. You are much more risk-averse than I am. I am much more risk-averse than Johann is. That doesn't make any of us necessarily right.

You need to recognize the extent of your knowledge and ignorance. You tend to give "one size fits all" advice. It's right in most situations but not always right. You can hate me for giving rosier perspectives than you do, but it's not coming from a lack of knowledge or understanding. It's coming from a different worldview and a different tolerance of risk. There can be more than one right answer. Yet, that concept seems foreign to you (which is weird considering that's exactly what law school sets out to teach you).

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby lavarman84 » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:10 pm

As for the tone-policing, Cavalier, you need it. Here are your SEVEN posts from the first page of this thread:
cavalier1138 wrote:Well, since you don't want to hear the correct advice, all anyone can say is to follow your dreams.

cavalier1138 wrote:Look, while everyone's here, I have a related question.

I'm going to go to Vegas and get super-rich. Should I do that playing the slots or the craps table? Positive responses only, please and thank you.

cavalier1138 wrote:If I were in your position, I wouldn't go to law school or I'd change my goals. You have done absolutely nothing to earn that arrogant, ignorant attitude, tiger.

cavalier1138 wrote:"It worked for me, so it can work for you!"
-Literally every shitty motivational speaker

You got a good outcome. Congrats. You were extremely lucky, and if you went in with a biglaw-or-bust mentality, you were extremely dumb.

cavalier1138 wrote:Follow your dreams! (Is that better?)

cavalier1138 wrote:Finally! Someone who will give me a straight answer to my question. What should I play to win my fortune in Vegas: slots or craps? Don't tell me that this is a stupid plan, because I don't want to hear it. I've given you two options, and you must respond with one of them. I eagerly await your answer.

cavalier1138 wrote:How is that helpful?

If you think the OP is making a bad decision either way, then it isn't helpful to tell them to take either option. If the OP wants to be monumentally arrogant (and yes, that's what going to Hofstra with the plan of "killing it" is), that's their choice. No one else has to encourage that.


You posted seven times on one page simply to berate, insult, or condescend the OP for not following your advice or the people who offered encourage to the OP. That's just childish, dude. There's no reason to take it so personally.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:41 am

lavarman84 wrote:There's no reason to take it so personally.


I'm just quoting this sentence for posterity. I guess I'm easy to amuse, but it just tickles me that someone scouring the thread to quote specific examples of my bad behavior (I slapped myself on the wrist for each of those naughty, naughty posts, so don't worry) is going to start accusing me of taking things personally.

Anyway, I'll keep giving my "one size fits all" advice to individual posters based on their specifically stated goals, and you can keep pretending to have some kind of moral high ground. See? Everyone's happy.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby law9898 » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:18 am

I went to a TTT, transferred to UT/UCLA/Vandy, and won the big law lottery. I still would never advise anyone to take any path like mine. I saw how the other 90% ended up at my old school and most were miserable searching for any kind of job during 3L and post bar results. Hell, half of the the students at my school struggled to find a job that was satisfactory to their liking. OP, you should be ignoring any Biglaw aspirations at a school like Hofstra until after 1L. I would only advise that you attend if you are comfortable with a starting salary of $40-$60k.

Just because it worked out for me doesn't mean I took the right risk. There were still many people back at my old TTT who were very smart and deserved a better job, but most employers have their minds made up already. It's just so much easier to wait and retake the LSAT and just go to a better school. I just got lucky through my interesting background, past connections, and above-average interviewing skills. There are so many jobs out there that pay $40,000 that going to a Hofstra or a school of the like just doesn't make sense unless you absolutely have to be a lawyer and would be fine working as rural DA. Law school is not fair and the lower (higher? you get the idea) on the school ladder you go, the more stressful it is. The other students at your school know they need to be in the top 10% to get a good job. There are no slackers at mid-range schools like there are in college. Going to Hofstra is defensible, but it's also defensible to go get your teachers license or something because you will likely end up making around the same right out of law school. Obviously a law degree gives you a higher earning potential, but it's also safe to say that the profession is one of the most miserable on average. Ultimately, your risk assessment based on biglaw at Hofstra is unlikely to ever be an issue because it's just not going to happen. You have to truly be honest with yourself on whether you will be happy making $40,000-60,000 for the foreseeable future.
Last edited by law9898 on Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby Damage Over Time » Tue Aug 08, 2017 2:42 pm

law9898 wrote:Just because it worked out for me doesn't mean I took the right risk.


This is pretty spot on and avoids results-oriented "if it worked, that means it was a worthwhile risk" fallacious thinking.

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Re: Hofstra (150k) vs Brooklyn (80k)

Postby NotSkadden » Tue Aug 08, 2017 3:43 pm

Damage Over Time wrote:
law9898 wrote:Just because it worked out for me doesn't mean I took the right risk.


This is pretty spot on and avoids results-oriented "if it worked, that means it was a worthwhile risk" fallacious thinking.


Okay. Tell me then, how does one know when they've taken the right risk?




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