Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

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Duke versus Cornell for Biglaw (no specific city)?

Duke ($60K scholarship)
12
34%
Cornell ($105K scholarship)
23
66%
 
Total votes: 35

zeglo
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Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby zeglo » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:02 am

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Last edited by zeglo on Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:27 am, edited 5 times in total.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:06 am

I would choose Cornell, but I like Ithaca more than most people. Either choice is defensible imo.

cavalier1138
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:59 am

If you want a better shot at biglaw in the Southeast (or heading back to Florida), I don't think Duke is a crazy choice. But if you think you'll probably end up in NYC, Cornell will get you there.

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chargers21
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby chargers21 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:04 pm

You should try to wrestle more money out of them. I don't know if I just got lucky, but we have about the same numbers and I had 15k more at each and ultimately made my decision between the two at the same cost difference that you are looking at. I picked Cornell recently even though I preferred southeast, fwiw.

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existentialcrisis
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby existentialcrisis » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:45 pm

Where do you want to work, besides not being 100% sold on NY?

zeglo
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby zeglo » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:58 pm

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Last edited by zeglo on Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

pizzagoblin
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby pizzagoblin » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:30 pm

Are you able to reapply next cycle? Looking at your LSN, it looks like you under-performed your numbers for some reason.

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chargers21
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby chargers21 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:40 pm

zeglo wrote:
existentialcrisis wrote:Where do you want to work, besides not being 100% sold on NY?


D.C., Atlanta, Charlotte, NY

My one thought is that Cornell has higher tuition. So I am not entirely sure of the real value of the scholarships.

For strictly NYC, is Duke any worse?

FWIW, I think Charlotte at one of the market paying firms is veryyyy hard to get, even from Duke. That's ultimately why I flipflopped, because even though I wanted that location, I wasn't willing to pay extra for the slight chance of it

zeglo
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby zeglo » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:46 pm

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Last edited by zeglo on Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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proteinshake
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby proteinshake » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:46 pm

zeglo wrote:
existentialcrisis wrote:Where do you want to work, besides not being 100% sold on NY?


D.C., Atlanta, Charlotte, NY

My one thought is that Cornell has higher tuition. So I am not entirely sure of the real value of the scholarships.

For strictly NYC, is Duke any worse?

Duke is either on the same level or slightly better than Cornell for NYC, but definitely not worse.

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chargers21
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby chargers21 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:47 pm

pizzagoblin wrote:Are you able to reapply next cycle? Looking at your LSN, it looks like you under-performed your numbers for some reason.

That's part of what I was saying. I have slightly higher gpa and slightly lower LSAT and pulled an extra 15k from each through some negotiating, but I partially owe that to getting 75k from UMich right off the bat

zeglo
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby zeglo » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:51 pm

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Last edited by zeglo on Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:26 am, edited 3 times in total.

cavalier1138
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:53 pm

zeglo wrote:No. I already gave my notice at my job and whatnot. Not an option.

I was 100% set on Duke. But now I am having an existential crisis I should have gone to the Ivy up north.


The Ivy League designation is pretty meaningless for law schools. At the same cost, no one would be recommending Cornell; the only thing giving people pause is the extra scholarship money on the table.

If you want Atlanta and Charlotte as a possibility, that's much more realistic from Duke than Cornell, especially without ties.

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proteinshake
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby proteinshake » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:55 pm

zeglo wrote:So I thought me wanting Duke was not an issue, but now suddenly I am thinking Cornell is way better based on thread. Is it just because of the money? At equal cost, would you go Duke?

at equal cost, its 100% Duke based on your goals. the question is whether or not Duke is worth 40K(?) more.

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RParadela
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby RParadela » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:00 pm

Personally, I'd pick Cornell. D.C market is notoriously really tough to break into and Atlanta is very tough without ties from what I understand. I'd rather have that extra 45k (more when you factor in the interest on the loan) and then shoot for Florida BL with NYC BL as a backup.

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Lavitz
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby Lavitz » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:03 pm

proteinshake wrote:Duke is either on the same level or slightly better than Cornell for NYC, but definitely not worse.

I don't disagree that they're about the same for NYC, but I'm curious as to why you think Duke can be slightly better but definitely not slightly worse, given that half as many Duke students end up in NYC.

zeglo wrote:But now I am having an existential crisis I should have gone to the Ivy up north.

Did you already turn down Cornell before making this thread? If so, was the point just to confirm that going to Duke wasn't a terrible decision? I mean, it's a real tossup, and either choice is defensible. So no, it wouldn't be dumb to go to Duke. But if both these options are still on the table, I'd seriously think about whether you want to take on an extra $30,000 or so in debt for the better location and debatably better opportunities in the South or whether you want to save the money.

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proteinshake
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby proteinshake » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:10 pm

Lavitz wrote:
proteinshake wrote:Duke is either on the same level or slightly better than Cornell for NYC, but definitely not worse.

I don't disagree that they're about the same for NYC, but I'm curious as to why you think Duke can be slightly better but definitely not slightly worse, given that half as many Duke students end up in NYC.

my thinking was that since a higher percentage of Duke students end up in big law/clerk and since NYC is the easiest market, a higher percentage of Duke students could have gotten NYC big law? I'm open to being shown why this thinking is wrong though.

also I'm pretty sure OP doesn't even have Cornell as an option anymore.

zeglo
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby zeglo » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:17 pm

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Last edited by zeglo on Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Lavitz
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby Lavitz » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:20 pm

proteinshake wrote:my thinking was that since a higher percentage of Duke students end up in big law/clerk and since NYC is the easiest market, a higher percentage of Duke students could have gotten NYC big law? I'm open to being shown why this thinking is wrong though.

also I'm pretty sure OP doesn't even have Cornell as an option anymore.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Just seems difficult to actually prove.

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Lavitz
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby Lavitz » Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:21 pm

zeglo wrote:Yeah, this was just to hear about my already-made decision because I am a huge, obsessive tool. I still appreciate the input.

Ok, well I guess I'll vote for Duke in this poll to make you feel better. Good luck!

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existentialcrisis
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby existentialcrisis » Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:27 pm

zeglo wrote:
existentialcrisis wrote:Where do you want to work, besides not being 100% sold on NY?


D.C., Atlanta, Charlotte, NY

My one thought is that Cornell has higher tuition. So I am not entirely sure of the real value of the scholarships.

For strictly NYC, is Duke any worse?


I don't think Duke would give you any meaningful advantage for DC (in before the Duke students wax poetic about how Duke gets all its median students DC).

I guess theoretically Duke might be better for ATL or Charlotte, but I'm skeptical that you have a good chance at either without strong ties.

Edit: And if you do have strong ties to those markets, I think Cornell would probably give you a strong shot as well.

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lavarman84
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby lavarman84 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:54 am

existentialcrisis wrote:
zeglo wrote:
existentialcrisis wrote:Where do you want to work, besides not being 100% sold on NY?


D.C., Atlanta, Charlotte, NY

My one thought is that Cornell has higher tuition. So I am not entirely sure of the real value of the scholarships.

For strictly NYC, is Duke any worse?


I don't think Duke would give you any meaningful advantage for DC (in before the Duke students wax poetic about how Duke gets all its median students DC).

I guess theoretically Duke might be better for ATL or Charlotte, but I'm skeptical that you have a good chance at either without strong ties.

Edit: And if you do have strong ties to those markets, I think Cornell would probably give you a strong shot as well.


Without ties, Duke will give a person a MUCH stronger shot at ATL or Charlotte.

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existentialcrisis
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby existentialcrisis » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:31 pm

lavarman84 wrote:
existentialcrisis wrote:
zeglo wrote:
existentialcrisis wrote:Where do you want to work, besides not being 100% sold on NY?


D.C., Atlanta, Charlotte, NY

My one thought is that Cornell has higher tuition. So I am not entirely sure of the real value of the scholarships.

For strictly NYC, is Duke any worse?


I don't think Duke would give you any meaningful advantage for DC (in before the Duke students wax poetic about how Duke gets all its median students DC).

I guess theoretically Duke might be better for ATL or Charlotte, but I'm skeptical that you have a good chance at either without strong ties.

Edit: And if you do have strong ties to those markets, I think Cornell would probably give you a strong shot as well.


Without ties, Duke will give a person a MUCH stronger shot at ATL or Charlotte.


What kind of a chance is a much stronger chance though? My impression is that both legal markets are small and relatively insular. How many Duke students without ties to ATL or Charlotte do you think there are working at A&B or Moore van Allen?

That is a genuine question, I didn't go to Duke so I don't actually know, but my impression is that the answer is not many.

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lavarman84
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby lavarman84 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:42 pm

existentialcrisis wrote:
lavarman84 wrote:
existentialcrisis wrote:
zeglo wrote:
existentialcrisis wrote:Where do you want to work, besides not being 100% sold on NY?


D.C., Atlanta, Charlotte, NY

My one thought is that Cornell has higher tuition. So I am not entirely sure of the real value of the scholarships.

For strictly NYC, is Duke any worse?


I don't think Duke would give you any meaningful advantage for DC (in before the Duke students wax poetic about how Duke gets all its median students DC).

I guess theoretically Duke might be better for ATL or Charlotte, but I'm skeptical that you have a good chance at either without strong ties.

Edit: And if you do have strong ties to those markets, I think Cornell would probably give you a strong shot as well.


Without ties, Duke will give a person a MUCH stronger shot at ATL or Charlotte.


What kind of a chance is a much stronger chance though? My impression is that both legal markets are small and relatively insular. How many Duke students without ties to ATL or Charlotte do you think there are working at A&B or Moore van Allen?

That is a genuine question, I didn't go to Duke so I don't actually know, but my impression is that the answer is not many.


I have no idea about the specifics. I'm not a Duke alum or student. I can only speak to Duke having a much stronger reputation and alumni base in the Southeast.

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chargers21
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Re: Duke ($$) vs. Cornell ($$$)

Postby chargers21 » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:58 pm

existentialcrisis wrote:
lavarman84 wrote:
existentialcrisis wrote:
zeglo wrote:
existentialcrisis wrote:Where do you want to work, besides not being 100% sold on NY?


D.C., Atlanta, Charlotte, NY

My one thought is that Cornell has higher tuition. So I am not entirely sure of the real value of the scholarships.

For strictly NYC, is Duke any worse?


I don't think Duke would give you any meaningful advantage for DC (in before the Duke students wax poetic about how Duke gets all its median students DC).

I guess theoretically Duke might be better for ATL or Charlotte, but I'm skeptical that you have a good chance at either without strong ties.

Edit: And if you do have strong ties to those markets, I think Cornell would probably give you a strong shot as well.


Without ties, Duke will give a person a MUCH stronger shot at ATL or Charlotte.


What kind of a chance is a much stronger chance though? My impression is that both legal markets are small and relatively insular. How many Duke students without ties to ATL or Charlotte do you think there are working at A&B or Moore van Allen?

That is a genuine question, I didn't go to Duke so I don't actually know, but my impression is that the answer is not many.

It's a relatively small number, hence why I picked Cornell this cycle despite really wanting Charlotte and Atlanta. Grades will likely be the deciding factor over school location within the t13 in my opinion. For big firms, there are only 4 NYC market paying firms in Charlotte (Dechert, Winston and Strawn, Cadwalader, and another I can't remember) and then like Moore, A and B, King and Spaulding, and Bryan Cave. I think about 5 Duke students end up at these firms per year, last year I think like 3 at Moore, 1 at Cadwalader, and 1 at Winston. Very few summer hires at the Charlotte offices for all of these places, and usually they seem to hire top 5% UNC/Wake students. Without a NC school, these are very unlikely landing spots right out of LS. Now I think Atlanta is a little more open. No NYC market paying firms that I can think of, but definitely a few more spots at the good firms. Ties are a necessity at both, which I actually heard directly from OCS at Cornell whose job it is to sell me on the school. So there's likely truth to that. I'm lucky enough to have slight ties to NC and decently strong ties to Atlanta, so I think targeting Atlanta isn't going to be a major issue, with decent grades of course




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