Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

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carsondalywashere
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Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby carsondalywashere » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:22 pm

If someone wanted Chicago big law, but was willing to work in other metro areas, how should they view the following schools?

Cornell
Northwestern
Duke
UVA
Michigan
Penn

All costs being equal, Northwestern would be the choice. But what if Cornell was 35k, 50k, more or less, cheaper than NU? What about Duke? Can any of these schools land Chicago big law (for someone who is not from there)? Does it become an issue of deciding whether cost or preference for working in Chicago is more important?

cavalier1138
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:25 pm

If you don't have any Chicago ties, going to a Chicago school is a little more important. But it's entirely cost-dependent.

carsondalywashere
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby carsondalywashere » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:31 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:If you don't have any Chicago ties, going to a Chicago school is a little more important. But it's entirely cost-dependent.

I've heard that ties to Chicago are important, but are more loosely defined than secondary markets. For example, I was told if someone went to undergrad in Illinois and/or were from a secondary market in the Midwest, these would work as ties for Chicago.

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UVA2B
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby UVA2B » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:36 pm

carsondalywashere wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:If you don't have any Chicago ties, going to a Chicago school is a little more important. But it's entirely cost-dependent.

I've heard that ties to Chicago are important, but are more loosely defined than secondary markets. For example, I was told if someone went to undergrad in Illinois and/or were from a secondary market in the Midwest, these would work as ties for Chicago.


1. Costs equal, pick NU
2. Costs at all not equal, pick the cheapest option

Your ties are enough to Chicago to get Chicago, but cost is still the prohibitive determinant here

carsondalywashere
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby carsondalywashere » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:14 pm

UVA2B wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:If you don't have any Chicago ties, going to a Chicago school is a little more important. But it's entirely cost-dependent.

I've heard that ties to Chicago are important, but are more loosely defined than secondary markets. For example, I was told if someone went to undergrad in Illinois and/or were from a secondary market in the Midwest, these would work as ties for Chicago.


1. Costs equal, pick NU
2. Costs at all not equal, pick the cheapest option

Your ties are enough to Chicago to get Chicago, but cost is still the prohibitive determinant here

Okay, that's good to know, thanks!

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chargers21
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby chargers21 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:56 pm

I was in a similar situation this cycle. From nearish Chicago, and would prefer it over most other markets. I will now be going to the cheapest t13 option I had, which did not end up being either of the Chicago schools

carsondalywashere
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby carsondalywashere » Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:33 pm

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Last edited by carsondalywashere on Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RedPurpleBlue
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:13 pm

NU and Duke at equal price comes down to preference. They are peer schools. The employment numbers are practically identical, especially when you remember that Northwestern has a significant percentage of JD-MBAs every year (~10%) that head off to top notch six figure JD Advantage jobs. Overall, 5.4% of Duke graduates are getting awful outcomes (unemployed or PT) and 7.2% of NU students are getting those same outcomes. So, ~95% of students at each schools are grabbing some FT LT gig and more often than not that's BL, FC, or some other great job.

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cron1834
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby cron1834 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:17 pm

RedPurpleBlue wrote:NU and Duke at equal price comes down to preference. They are peer schools. The employment numbers are practically identical, especially when you remember that Northwestern has a significant percentage of JD-MBAs every year (~10%) that head off to top notch six figure JD Advantage jobs. Overall, 5.4% of Duke graduates are getting awful outcomes (unemployed or PT) and 7.2% of NU students are getting those same outcomes. So, ~95% of students at each schools are grabbing some FT LT gig and more often than not that's BL, FC, or some other great job.

Except OP's first choice is Chicago. Unless Duke is significantly cheaper, NU >> Duke for Chicago purposes.

RedPurpleBlue
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:20 pm

cron1834 wrote:
RedPurpleBlue wrote:NU and Duke at equal price comes down to preference. They are peer schools. The employment numbers are practically identical, especially when you remember that Northwestern has a significant percentage of JD-MBAs every year (~10%) that head off to top notch six figure JD Advantage jobs. Overall, 5.4% of Duke graduates are getting awful outcomes (unemployed or PT) and 7.2% of NU students are getting those same outcomes. So, ~95% of students at each schools are grabbing some FT LT gig and more often than not that's BL, FC, or some other great job.

Except OP's first choice is Chicago. Unless Duke is significantly cheaper, NU >> Duke for Chicago purposes.


Righto.

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chargers21
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby chargers21 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:23 pm

They are peer schools. Duke is slightly better in the south, Northwestern in Chicago/midwest. Duke has a lower COL so at equal scholarships it will be a somewhat cheaper. If you want Chicago BL, I'd probably go NU anyways just to make things easier. I know great people going to both schools, so student body is chargers approved at both. St. Louis BL pays less than Chicago, if you weren't aware, and you will need ties from Duke or NU. There are a lot less good firms compared to Chicago as well. Best of luck, and either choice is defensible against the other (not sure of actual numbers)

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cron1834
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby cron1834 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:27 pm

As a note to OP, Chicago biglaw pays like 40% more money than StL biglaw, and there are about 10 times as many SAs. So I'd really not get too hung up on StL here :D

Edit - Chargers scooped me on some of this above!

carsondalywashere
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby carsondalywashere » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:17 pm

.
Last edited by carsondalywashere on Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

carsondalywashere
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby carsondalywashere » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:20 pm

RedPurpleBlue wrote:NU and Duke at equal price comes down to preference. They are peer schools. The employment numbers are practically identical, especially when you remember that Northwestern has a significant percentage of JD-MBAs every year (~10%) that head off to top notch six figure JD Advantage jobs. Overall, 5.4% of Duke graduates are getting awful outcomes (unemployed or PT) and 7.2% of NU students are getting those same outcomes. So, ~95% of students at each schools are grabbing some FT LT gig and more often than not that's BL, FC, or some other great job.

Very insightful, thank you

carsondalywashere
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby carsondalywashere » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:23 pm

I have to make a decision within the next week. I'm very open to going to either school; I like Chicago, but it's not a do or die market for me.

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existentialcrisis
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby existentialcrisis » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:52 pm

carsondalywashere wrote:I have to make a decision within the next week. I'm very open to going to either school; I like Chicago, but it's not a do or die market for me.


I would do NU. I don't feel like Duke offers any real advantages for what you want, and NU is closer to home.

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chargers21
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby chargers21 » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:30 am

carsondalywashere wrote:I have to make a decision within the next week. I'm very open to going to either school; I like Chicago, but it's not a do or die market for me.

If you would prefer Chicago over NYC if you don't go St. Louis, I would go NU for sure though

carsondalywashere
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby carsondalywashere » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:08 am

^thanks to both of you!

I asked both schools to see if they would reconsider my scholarship, and will make a decision based off of that information. Even a little bit more money would make a big difference for me

lucretius_
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby lucretius_ » Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:35 am

If you're looking to the STL BigLaw, I don't think you can do wrong with either of these schools especially with STL ties. I know an associate at Bryan Cave that graduated from Duke. There are a few partners from NU at Armstrong. You might also look into the Dentons and Littler Mendelson Offices to see if they have any alums if you're looking for larger firms with multiple offices. You'll be competing with SLU, WUSTL, and Mizzou grads, but either school will give you a bump.

carsondalywashere
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby carsondalywashere » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:48 pm

lucretius_ wrote:If you're looking to the STL BigLaw, I don't think you can do wrong with either of these schools especially with STL ties. I know an associate at Bryan Cave that graduated from Duke. There are a few partners from NU at Armstrong. You might also look into the Dentons and Littler Mendelson Offices to see if they have any alums if you're looking for larger firms with multiple offices. You'll be competing with SLU, WUSTL, and Mizzou grads, but either school will give you a bump.

Awesome, good to know!

I'll keep people updated if anything changes, but the advice so far has been great

carsondalywashere
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby carsondalywashere » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:24 pm

.

carsondalywashere
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby carsondalywashere » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:29 pm

Ended up sticking with Northwestern. Duke was very generous and increased their scholarship offer an additional 15k, but I felt like the extra money would be eaten up by car expenses/making a major move. Plus Chicago is cool.

Thanks for the advice as always TLS

RedPurpleBlue
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:55 pm

carsondalywashere wrote:Ended up sticking with Northwestern. Duke was very generous and increased their scholarship offer an additional 15k, but I felt like the extra money would be eaten up by car expenses/making a major move. Plus Chicago is cool.

Thanks for the advice as always TLS


Look forward to seeing you at NU next year. Welcome to the tribe.

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Martin Brody
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby Martin Brody » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:02 pm

carsondalywashere wrote:Ended up sticking with Northwestern. Duke was very generous and increased their scholarship offer an additional 15k, but I felt like the extra money would be eaten up by car expenses/making a major move. Plus Chicago is cool.

Thanks for the advice as always TLS


I work in Chicago biglaw and think you made the right choice. Firms care about ties but they can be easily overcome by demonstrating your desire to be in the city. That's worth 10-15k IMO.

carsondalywashere
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Re: Chicago Big Law School Choice Hypothetical

Postby carsondalywashere » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:07 pm

Martin Brody wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:Ended up sticking with Northwestern. Duke was very generous and increased their scholarship offer an additional 15k, but I felt like the extra money would be eaten up by car expenses/making a major move. Plus Chicago is cool.

Thanks for the advice as always TLS


I work in Chicago biglaw and think you made the right choice. Firms care about ties but they can be easily overcome by demonstrating your desire to be in the city. That's worth 10-15k IMO.

Cool, good to hear. Felt like in the grand scheme of things 15k wasn't worth sweating over. If the difference had been larger, I probably would have gone Duke though




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