Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

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Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Vanderbilt
16
40%
WUSTL
24
60%
 
Total votes: 40

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stego
Posts: 5303
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:23 am

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby stego » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:00 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
personofinterest wrote:Poster also said region is important. They don't like the Midwest and like the south/northeast. 3 years of living in a place you like more is worth something itself. Also, it could be easier to find backup options in a desirable location if biglaw doesn't workout. From what other posters have said, it may be easier to get biglaw in TX from vandy than wash u.


School location is not worth $75,000 in this case. The potential difference in regional job opportunities might be. But it would be beyond ridiculous to pay $75,000 for the chance to spend three years studying in Nashville instead of studying in St. Louis.

If you were going to itemize it how much more would you pay for:
- 12% better biglaw/fed clerkship chances
- 3 years in Nashville instead of St Louis
- greater ease of finding fallback options in more desirable location???
- greater chance at TX???

(I voted WUSTL btw)

cavalier1138
Posts: 4002
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:03 pm

stego wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
personofinterest wrote:Poster also said region is important. They don't like the Midwest and like the south/northeast. 3 years of living in a place you like more is worth something itself. Also, it could be easier to find backup options in a desirable location if biglaw doesn't workout. From what other posters have said, it may be easier to get biglaw in TX from vandy than wash u.


School location is not worth $75,000 in this case. The potential difference in regional job opportunities might be. But it would be beyond ridiculous to pay $75,000 for the chance to spend three years studying in Nashville instead of studying in St. Louis.

If you were going to itemize it how much more would you pay for:
- 12% better biglaw/fed clerkship chances
- 3 years in Nashville instead of St Louis
- greater ease of finding fallback options in more desirable location???
- greater chance at TX???

(I voted WUSTL btw)


On that list, I'd literally only consider the Texas difference when money was at stake.

personofinterest
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:13 pm

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby personofinterest » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:32 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
stego wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
personofinterest wrote:Poster also said region is important. They don't like the Midwest and like the south/northeast. 3 years of living in a place you like more is worth something itself. Also, it could be easier to find backup options in a desirable location if biglaw doesn't workout. From what other posters have said, it may be easier to get biglaw in TX from vandy than wash u.


School location is not worth $75,000 in this case. The potential difference in regional job opportunities might be. But it would be beyond ridiculous to pay $75,000 for the chance to spend three years studying in Nashville instead of studying in St. Louis.

If you were going to itemize it how much more would you pay for:
- 12% better biglaw/fed clerkship chances
- 3 years in Nashville instead of St Louis
- greater ease of finding fallback options in more desirable location???
- greater chance at TX???

(I voted WUSTL btw)


On that list, I'd literally only consider the Texas difference when money was at stake.


Cavalier1138, why would you not consider all the factors? I think Stego's list is fair. I would choose WashU, but I am from the midwest. I had a similar choice where a southern school would have been cheaper, but I chose a midwest school and I am happy with the decision.

cavalier1138
Posts: 4002
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:44 pm

personofinterest wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
stego wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
personofinterest wrote:Poster also said region is important. They don't like the Midwest and like the south/northeast. 3 years of living in a place you like more is worth something itself. Also, it could be easier to find backup options in a desirable location if biglaw doesn't workout. From what other posters have said, it may be easier to get biglaw in TX from vandy than wash u.


School location is not worth $75,000 in this case. The potential difference in regional job opportunities might be. But it would be beyond ridiculous to pay $75,000 for the chance to spend three years studying in Nashville instead of studying in St. Louis.

If you were going to itemize it how much more would you pay for:
- 12% better biglaw/fed clerkship chances
- 3 years in Nashville instead of St Louis
- greater ease of finding fallback options in more desirable location???
- greater chance at TX???

(I voted WUSTL btw)


On that list, I'd literally only consider the Texas difference when money was at stake.


Cavalier1138, why would you not consider all the factors? I think Stego's list is fair. I would choose WashU, but I am from the midwest. I had a similar choice where a southern school would have been cheaper, but I chose a midwest school and I am happy with the decision.


The other factors listed are relatively unimportant for this decision. If you decided to go to a school in the Midwest that places its graduates in the Midwest but want to work in the South, then that would be a dumb decision. Where you want to work is infinitely more important than where you go to school. The catch is that outside of the top schools, those two things go together.

So yes, I would not consider whether someone likes Nashville more than St. Louis. I also would not give a 12% difference in BL/FC rates much weight when looking at schools that fluctuate in their placement rates quite a bit from year to year. So out of this list, Texas placement is by far the most important consideration, and it's the only one I would say justifies spending money.

devilsadvocatetroll
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:37 pm

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby devilsadvocatetroll » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:56 pm

3.7 and 162 with these great outcomes? Is this normal? Feel like something is missing here.

agmooty
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:56 am

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby agmooty » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:34 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
personofinterest wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
stego wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
personofinterest wrote:Poster also said region is important. They don't like the Midwest and like the south/northeast. 3 years of living in a place you like more is worth something itself. Also, it could be easier to find backup options in a desirable location if biglaw doesn't workout. From what other posters have said, it may be easier to get biglaw in TX from vandy than wash u.


School location is not worth $75,000 in this case. The potential difference in regional job opportunities might be. But it would be beyond ridiculous to pay $75,000 for the chance to spend three years studying in Nashville instead of studying in St. Louis.

If you were going to itemize it how much more would you pay for:
- 12% better biglaw/fed clerkship chances
- 3 years in Nashville instead of St Louis
- greater ease of finding fallback options in more desirable location???
- greater chance at TX???

(I voted WUSTL btw)


On that list, I'd literally only consider the Texas difference when money was at stake.


Cavalier1138, why would you not consider all the factors? I think Stego's list is fair. I would choose WashU, but I am from the midwest. I had a similar choice where a southern school would have been cheaper, but I chose a midwest school and I am happy with the decision.


The other factors listed are relatively unimportant for this decision. If you decided to go to a school in the Midwest that places its graduates in the Midwest but want to work in the South, then that would be a dumb decision. Where you want to work is infinitely more important than where you go to school. The catch is that outside of the top schools, those two things go together.

So yes, I would not consider whether someone likes Nashville more than St. Louis. I also would not give a 12% difference in BL/FC rates much weight when looking at schools that fluctuate in their placement rates quite a bit from year to year. So out of this list, Texas placement is by far the most important consideration, and it's the only one I would say justifies spending money.


Placement has been a huge consideration for me, not necessarily where I will be living for 3 years, don't get me wrong, I think I would prefer Nashville to St. Louis (lower crime, better collegiate environment, in the south, etc.), but this, at least to me, would not justify the difference in cost. Ending up working midlaw in St. Louis does not sound appealing to me at all. Although, I think I would be happy working in Chicago, but I would not bank on this considering how competitive the market is, what with U of Chicago, Northwestern, etc. Whereas working midlaw in a southern state (though it is not what I am aiming for) sounds much more appealing as I am more familiar with the culture.

In terms of employment, NLJ ranks Vandy as the 13th best law school for placing students in biglaw jobs (Wash U is ranked 24th); ATL ranks Vandy as the 11th best law school (Wash U is 17th). In terms of both placement and employment, Vandy seems to give me the best shot at achieving what I want to achieve and that to me seems to make it worth the extra debt, so as of now, I am leaning toward Vandy (the fact that it's in Nashville is just the icing on the cake).

User avatar
Jmart082
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:52 pm

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby Jmart082 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:20 pm

agmooty wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
personofinterest wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
stego wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
personofinterest wrote:Poster also said region is important. They don't like the Midwest and like the south/northeast. 3 years of living in a place you like more is worth something itself. Also, it could be easier to find backup options in a desirable location if biglaw doesn't workout. From what other posters have said, it may be easier to get biglaw in TX from vandy than wash u.


School location is not worth $75,000 in this case. The potential difference in regional job opportunities might be. But it would be beyond ridiculous to pay $75,000 for the chance to spend three years studying in Nashville instead of studying in St. Louis.

If you were going to itemize it how much more would you pay for:
- 12% better biglaw/fed clerkship chances
- 3 years in Nashville instead of St Louis
- greater ease of finding fallback options in more desirable location???
- greater chance at TX???

(I voted WUSTL btw)


On that list, I'd literally only consider the Texas difference when money was at stake.


Cavalier1138, why would you not consider all the factors? I think Stego's list is fair. I would choose WashU, but I am from the midwest. I had a similar choice where a southern school would have been cheaper, but I chose a midwest school and I am happy with the decision.


The other factors listed are relatively unimportant for this decision. If you decided to go to a school in the Midwest that places its graduates in the Midwest but want to work in the South, then that would be a dumb decision. Where you want to work is infinitely more important than where you go to school. The catch is that outside of the top schools, those two things go together.

So yes, I would not consider whether someone likes Nashville more than St. Louis. I also would not give a 12% difference in BL/FC rates much weight when looking at schools that fluctuate in their placement rates quite a bit from year to year. So out of this list, Texas placement is by far the most important consideration, and it's the only one I would say justifies spending money.


Placement has been a huge consideration for me, not necessarily where I will be living for 3 years, don't get me wrong, I think I would prefer Nashville to St. Louis (lower crime, better collegiate environment, in the south, etc.), but this, at least to me, would not justify the difference in cost. Ending up working midlaw in St. Louis does not sound appealing to me at all. Although, I think I would be happy working in Chicago, but I would not bank on this considering how competitive the market is, what with U of Chicago, Northwestern, etc. Whereas working midlaw in a southern state (though it is not what I am aiming for) sounds much more appealing as I am more familiar with the culture.

In terms of employment, NLJ ranks Vandy as the 13th best law school for placing students in biglaw jobs (Wash U is ranked 24th); ATL ranks Vandy as the 11th best law school (Wash U is 17th). In terms of both placement and employment, Vandy seems to give me the best shot at achieving what I want to achieve and that to me seems to make it worth the extra debt, so as of now, I am leaning toward Vandy (the fact that it's in Nashville is just the icing on the cake).

Yeah, sounds like your mind is made up.

agmooty
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:56 am

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby agmooty » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:38 pm

devilsadvocatetroll wrote:3.7 and 162 with these great outcomes? Is this normal? Feel like something is missing here.

To be quite honest, I was surprised myself, I had settled for a Top 30 or Top 40 school at the outset. For a time, I was also waitlisted at UVA (but then rejected). I guess it's my softs, but then again, everyone thinks they have strong softs. It's definitely been an odd cycle.

agmooty
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:56 am

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby agmooty » Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:55 pm

I have till 5 this afternoon to make my decision and I've been back and forth throughout the whole week, but everything in me right now is telling me to accept Vandy's offer. A part of me has been worried that I'd have to be an idiot to turn down WUSTL's offer, but the other part of me is worried that I'd look back on this moment and regret not taking the risk. Like I said, I'm still waiting on UT and if they accept me I'd probably go regardless of what they offer (in-state tuition isn't too bad, relatively speaking), although I know I'd pretty much be limited to Texas, but I'd be okay with that. Anyway, unless, I have some change of heart within the next hour (and there's a possibility it could happen, it's pretty much been happening all week), it's shaping out to be Vandy.

Shootin
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby Shootin » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:47 pm

What leads to the 12% difference in BL+FC placement? Do more employers come to Vandy OCI? Career services helps with mass mailing somehow or what exactly is it?

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Jmart082
Posts: 275
Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:52 pm

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby Jmart082 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:28 pm

Shootin wrote:What leads to the 12% difference in BL+FC placement? Do more employers come to Vandy OCI? Career services helps with mass mailing somehow or what exactly is it?

I'm curious about this, too. The difference between schools ranked 15-20 have in the past been negligible at best.

lurker816
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:48 pm

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby lurker816 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:35 pm

Jmart082 wrote:
Shootin wrote:What leads to the 12% difference in BL+FC placement? Do more employers come to Vandy OCI? Career services helps with mass mailing somehow or what exactly is it?

I'm curious about this, too. The difference between schools ranked 15-20 have in the past been negligible at best.


CS definitely does not help with MM, at least in my experience.

personofinterest
Posts: 130
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:13 pm

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby personofinterest » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:56 pm

lurker816 wrote:
Jmart082 wrote:
Shootin wrote:What leads to the 12% difference in BL+FC placement? Do more employers come to Vandy OCI? Career services helps with mass mailing somehow or what exactly is it?

I'm curious about this, too. The difference between schools ranked 15-20 have in the past been negligible at best.


CS definitely does not help with MM, at least in my experience.


I'd think reputation. Whatever it is, Vanderbilt has consistently placed better. The previous year had roughly a 12% difference, while back in 2011, Wash U had 21.7% biglaw+FC while Vandy had 40.9%. It could be that there are three T13s in the midwest for Wash U to compete with, while Vanderbilt has less competition with only Duke from the T13 (is Virginia in "the South"?).

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UVA2B
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby UVA2B » Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:59 pm

personofinterest wrote:
lurker816 wrote:
Jmart082 wrote:
Shootin wrote:What leads to the 12% difference in BL+FC placement? Do more employers come to Vandy OCI? Career services helps with mass mailing somehow or what exactly is it?

I'm curious about this, too. The difference between schools ranked 15-20 have in the past been negligible at best.


CS definitely does not help with MM, at least in my experience.


I'd think reputation. Whatever it is, Vanderbilt has consistently placed better. The previous year had roughly a 12% difference, while back in 2011, Wash U had 21.7% biglaw+FC while Vandy had 40.9%. It could be that there are three T13s in the midwest for Wash U to compete with, while Vanderbilt has less competition with only Duke from the T13 (is Virginia in "the South"?).


It's somewhat reputational, but it's also placement in the south.

And yes, Virginia is very much a southern school.

Shootin
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Vandy $ vs. WUSTL $$$

Postby Shootin » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:19 am

You could argue that there is Duke and UVA to compete with Vandy in the south, like there is NU and Chi to compete with WUSTL in the midwest. Besides, second biggest market for both is NY anyway, so I'm not sure how much the Midwest v South distinction plays role anyway.

They are supposedly peer schools, but employment stats put vandy closer to T14. Speaking of which, vandy has better employment stats than Georgetown, which surely has better name recognition. So I am really not sure what gives.




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