Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

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joebottles93
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby joebottles93 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:10 pm

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Last edited by joebottles93 on Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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stego
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby stego » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:11 pm

UVA2B wrote:
stego wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Sure, there is always some play in the data, and maybe one graduate of that 9.4% is actually employed as an attorney in NYC, but it's every bit as likely those 9.4% who are in unknown locations are unknown because they didn't want to report where they were working after graduation. If USC was sending graduates to NYC, they'd be knocking down those 9.4% of graduates' doors until they got to report USC places outside of the Southeast.

You can try to forgive the data and say it's unlikely 0 graduates ended up fully employed in NYC as an attorney, but a reasonable skeptic could just as plausibly say that 9.4% of unknown location are more likely in less desirable locations, and therefore can comfortably say that it likely wasn't NYC. Neither person is right because it's unknown, but it's at least equally likely that one or the other is correct.

LST only shows the top 3 states, so I'm not sure if we can infer that the other 9.4% refused to report their location. If 1 or 2 students did report NYC we wouldn't know. I would assume most of the 9.4% are in other southeastern states, of course. But of the 15 students from the last class who did get a big law firm, probably some are in NYC since that's by far the largest big law market.

Fair enough. I stand corrected. But (to pick a non-random example), if you look at Alabama it shows the top 3 states and 29.2% are unknown, so the data they have for some schools is just bad. For WUSTL, it shows the top
That's not how the reporting works. Look at any other school that has placement beyond three states. I randomly picked BC.

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/bc/jobs/location/

They show where graduates are being placed, even if it's only 1% of the class. If someone reported working outside of those three states for USC, it should show on LST.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. But (to pick a non-random example), if I look up Alabama it shows the top 3 states and 29.2% unknown. If I look up WUSTL it shows the top 3 states and 44.3% unknown. If I look up Boston University instead of Boston College it shows the top 3 states and 22.6% unknown. The data for some schools (most schools?) is just bad.

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UVA2B
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby UVA2B » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:13 pm

stego wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
stego wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Sure, there is always some play in the data, and maybe one graduate of that 9.4% is actually employed as an attorney in NYC, but it's every bit as likely those 9.4% who are in unknown locations are unknown because they didn't want to report where they were working after graduation. If USC was sending graduates to NYC, they'd be knocking down those 9.4% of graduates' doors until they got to report USC places outside of the Southeast.

You can try to forgive the data and say it's unlikely 0 graduates ended up fully employed in NYC as an attorney, but a reasonable skeptic could just as plausibly say that 9.4% of unknown location are more likely in less desirable locations, and therefore can comfortably say that it likely wasn't NYC. Neither person is right because it's unknown, but it's at least equally likely that one or the other is correct.

LST only shows the top 3 states, so I'm not sure if we can infer that the other 9.4% refused to report their location. If 1 or 2 students did report NYC we wouldn't know. I would assume most of the 9.4% are in other southeastern states, of course. But of the 15 students from the last class who did get a big law firm, probably some are in NYC since that's by far the largest big law market.

Fair enough. I stand corrected. But (to pick a non-random example), if you look at Alabama it shows the top 3 states and 29.2% are unknown, so the data they have for some schools is just bad. For WUSTL, it shows the top
That's not how the reporting works. Look at any other school that has placement beyond three states. I randomly picked BC.

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/bc/jobs/location/

They show where graduates are being placed, even if it's only 1% of the class. If someone reported working outside of those three states for USC, it should show on LST.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. But (to pick a non-random example), if I look up Alabama it shows the top 3 states and 29.2% unknown. If I look up WUSTL it shows the top 3 states and 44.3% unknown. If I look up Boston University instead of Boston College it shows the top 3 states and 22.6% unknown. The data for some schools (most schools?) is just bad.


Yeah, I edited my original post to reflect this very problem. I just tend to trust higher ranked schools that do this more than schools like USC.

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stego
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby stego » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:14 pm

joebottles93 wrote:How much can I expect to make at just an average job out of USC? As long as I'm making over 100k I guess I don't mind. Would Texas A&M or West Virignia be any better? I'm on the waitlist at Michigain state.

Very few legal jobs start out at over 100k. Google "lawyers bimodal salary distribution". Legal jobs tend to either start off at big law market rate or else 40-70k. Very little in between.

Texas A&M and West Virginia would both be worse. MichigaIn State is not a good school either.

ABORT ABORT ABORT

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UVA2B
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby UVA2B » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:15 pm

joebottles93 wrote:How much can I expect to make at just an average job out of USC? As long as I'm making over 100k I guess I don't mind. Would Texas A&M or West Virignia be any better? I'm on the waitlist at Michigain state.


Please stop asking questions and start doing research on your own. None of the schools you currently have as options will make you $100k/year. No school you get into with a 3.4/157 will likely get you a job paying $100k/year.

You either need to adjust salary goals or retake the LSAT to give yourself options where you could reasonably hope to make $100k/year. There's no backdoor to highly paid work, stop trying to find one.

joebottles93
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby joebottles93 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:22 pm

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Last edited by joebottles93 on Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BruiseWillis
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby BruiseWillis » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:24 pm

Troll senses officially tingling

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UVA2B
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby UVA2B » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:25 pm

joebottles93 wrote:I think I'll trust career services over some random posters on the internet, than you very much.


If you don't trust random posters on the internet, why did you ask random internet posters on the internet? Enjoy USC and hopefully you're in the 2/3 of your graduating class that is practicing as an attorney after graduation.

BruiseWillis wrote:Troll senses officially tingling


Yeah, it's not really even controversial. Only lasted two pages as a troll, pretty weak game.

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Greenteachurro
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby Greenteachurro » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:26 pm

joebottles93 wrote:I think I'll trust career services over some random posters on the internet, than you very much.



I get that sentiment, but you should probably trust the random posters on the internet for this one.

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stego
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby stego » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:29 pm

joebottles93 wrote:I think I'll trust career services over some random posters on the internet, than you very much.

Career Services at USC Law? Their admissions office has a vested interest in getting you to pay money to attend their school. We have nothing to gain by lying to you and are sharing publicly available employment data.

The truth is NYC big law is a (possible) but very unlikely outcome from South Carolina and if you don't get big law you won't make 100k/yr.

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ponderingmeerkat
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby ponderingmeerkat » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:37 pm

Fuck...trolled. I fell for it.

Shut it down mods.

NoDayButToday
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby NoDayButToday » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:37 pm

@BruiseWillis: agreed

However, to anyone from out of state who legitimately is asking this question/wants to know the answer, here are my two cents:
I'm from SC and have a lot of friends who have gone or are going to SC Law currently. My dad went to SC Law as well. I would agree with others who are advising against going to SC Law (or any regionally placing tier 2 state school) unless you want to practice in that state. SC has limited name recognition elsewhere. As a South Carolinian living in New York and Massachusetts, I've found my state at the butt of a lot of jokes/stereotypes suggesting my state/the South generally are full of unintelligent/backwards people. Without addressing the merits of that, I will just say that I've often found people in New York people don't have the highest opinion of Southerners. New York firms are not likely recruiting south of say, Duke or UVA, and you'd have to really hustle to get interviews with New York firms even if you're at the top of your class.

So, say you will work in SC and then try to lateral your way to NYC. I would also second the posters who have mentioned local ties and connections. SC is a VERY small state. You have Columbia, Charleston, and Greenville as the major cities--everything else is essentially a small town or rural market. And each Columbia, Charleston, and Greenville, are themselves pretty small, too. I'm coming back to work in Columbia after the July bar and just about everyone I've talked to there within the legal profession so far has asked me if I'm related to [insert my uncle's name], who is a partner at one of the larger firm's offices in Charleston. I'm sure every good old boy who goes through SC Law has ties to their local judiciary that they can leverage over someone who doesn't have them. It's not impossible that you could find something, but it would be more challenging.

Also worth noting for attempting to work first in SC: SC does have a few medium and big firms--Nelson Mullins, Nexsen Pruet, Haynsworth Sinkler, etc.--but those will only have a few openings a year and unlike big law firms up north/elsewhere, southern firms do not hire 100% of their summer associate classes. I know people from SC Law who went to SC firms for their 2L summer and got no-offered not because they did a poor job in their SA, but because the firm decided they didn't want to hire entry level that year. They're more likely to take on laterals instead.

My sense is that the largest firms in SC have an entry level salary somewhere around $90-100K.

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UVA2B
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby UVA2B » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:41 pm

NoDayButToday wrote:My sense is that the largest firms in SC have an entry level salary somewhere around $90-100K.


According to NALP, it seems to be $105k at the big firms, but I'm sure that'll dip occasionally depending on the firm.

NoDayButToday
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby NoDayButToday » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:51 pm

UVA2B wrote:
NoDayButToday wrote:My sense is that the largest firms in SC have an entry level salary somewhere around $90-100K.


According to NALP, it seems to be $105k at the big firms, but I'm sure that'll dip occasionally depending on the firm.


That makes sense - I'm sure it's gone up to attempt to compete a little more (lol) with the $180K jump. My salary knowledge is just what I gleaned from orientation at an SC big firm in summer '15.

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emkay625
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby emkay625 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:06 pm

joebottles93 wrote:How much can I expect to make at just an average job out of USC? As long as I'm making over 100k I guess I don't mind. Would Texas A&M or West Virignia be any better? I'm on the waitlist at Michigain state.


No, you will not make 100K. Even the 75th percentile salary is $70,000. That data can be found on the NALP form, which you should read:

http://sc.edu/study/colleges_schools/la ... ummary.pdf

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emkay625
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby emkay625 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:07 pm

joebottles93 wrote:I think I'll trust career services over some random posters on the internet, than you very much.


Either you're a troll or you're very naive.

Literally their job is to make you enroll. They are not lying, per se, but they're not really being truthful, either. They are sales people. They are not your friend.

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emkay625
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby emkay625 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:10 pm

You should call career services back and ask them this question: how many graduates did you place in New York City in a big law job making market salary (180K) last year? They have that data; they are required to collect it and required to disclose the data. If they don't give you the number, it means the number is either zero or very very small. Call and ask and then report back to us what they say. If they say they can't tell you that or they don't know, they are lying to you.

cavalier1138
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Re: Big Law or Bust University of South Carolina

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:18 pm

joebottles93 wrote:I think I'll trust career services over some random posters on the internet, than you very much.


Yeah, because random posters on the internet are paid to oversell their school... oh, hang on.




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