Chicago Kent vs DePaul

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Plurple_Unicorn
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Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby Plurple_Unicorn » Fri May 12, 2017 5:06 pm

Got into both schools. Really torn between the two. Kent's better ranked, has higher employment stats, etc. DePaul seems to be in an upward swing (poaching Kent's students). Which one will give me an advantage in working in Chicago?

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Rigo
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby Rigo » Fri May 12, 2017 5:08 pm

What will the total cost of attendance be for each?
What are your career goals?

Plurple_Unicorn
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby Plurple_Unicorn » Fri May 12, 2017 5:09 pm

Rigo wrote:What will the total cost of attendance be for each?
What are your career goals?


Cost of attendance roughly the same. My career goals are mid-size law.

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Rigo
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby Rigo » Fri May 12, 2017 5:11 pm

Plurple_Unicorn wrote:
Rigo wrote:What will the total cost of attendance be for each?
What are your career goals?

Cost of attendance roughly the same. My career goals are mid-size law.

Yeah but roughly the same could mean that both cost $200k which is no bueno.
Don't be evasive.

Plurple_Unicorn
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby Plurple_Unicorn » Fri May 12, 2017 5:14 pm

Rigo wrote:
Plurple_Unicorn wrote:
Rigo wrote:What will the total cost of attendance be for each?
What are your career goals?

Cost of attendance roughly the same. My career goals are mid-size law.

Yeah but roughly the same could mean that both cost $200k which is no bueno.
Don't be evasive.


I have a 15k scholly at one, 12k at the other. I could definitely bump up the 12 k to 15k.
Last edited by Plurple_Unicorn on Fri May 12, 2017 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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trebekismyhero
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby trebekismyhero » Fri May 12, 2017 5:22 pm

Plurple_Unicorn wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Plurple_Unicorn wrote:
Rigo wrote:What will the total cost of attendance be for each?
What are your career goals?

Cost of attendance roughly the same. My career goals are mid-size law.

Yeah but roughly the same could mean that both cost $200k which is no bueno.
Don't be evasive.


I have a 15k scholly at one, 12k at the other. I could definitely bump up the 12 k to 15k.


At those costs, both are terrible decisions. You are not getting mid-size law out of either. Retake the LSAT

Plurple_Unicorn
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby Plurple_Unicorn » Fri May 12, 2017 5:31 pm

trebekismyhero wrote:
Plurple_Unicorn wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Plurple_Unicorn wrote:
Rigo wrote:What will the total cost of attendance be for each?
What are your career goals?

Cost of attendance roughly the same. My career goals are mid-size law.

Yeah but roughly the same could mean that both cost $200k which is no bueno.
Don't be evasive.


I have a 15k scholly at one, 12k at the other. I could definitely bump up the 12 k to 15k.


At those costs, both are terrible decisions. You are not getting mid-size law out of either. Retake the LSAT


I'm curious, what do you think of the schools, in terms of trends. DePaul is definitely poaching Kent's students (offering scholarships etc.) Kent also had a huge drop in rankings (20-ish points in the last year). DePaul also has a stronger alumni network. Do you think Kent will continue to fall in Rankings?

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trebekismyhero
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby trebekismyhero » Fri May 12, 2017 5:36 pm

Plurple_Unicorn wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
Plurple_Unicorn wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Plurple_Unicorn wrote:
Rigo wrote:What will the total cost of attendance be for each?
What are your career goals?

Cost of attendance roughly the same. My career goals are mid-size law.

Yeah but roughly the same could mean that both cost $200k which is no bueno.
Don't be evasive.


I have a 15k scholly at one, 12k at the other. I could definitely bump up the 12 k to 15k.


At those costs, both are terrible decisions. You are not getting mid-size law out of either. Retake the LSAT


I'm curious, what do you think of the schools, in terms of trends. DePaul is definitely poaching Kent's students (offering scholarships etc.) Kent also had a huge drop in rankings (20-ish points in the last year). DePaul also has a stronger alumni network. Do you think Kent will continue to fall in Rankings?


Neither are schools worth going to on less than a full ride or near full ride scholarship. I know attorneys from DePaul and kent, they're fine attorneys, but the job market isn't very kind to either. I think they are basically interchangeable. Kent probably is slightly better because it has a higher big law %, but otherwise they're the same. Which are two schools that with pretty poor job prospects

chicagoburger
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby chicagoburger » Fri May 12, 2017 6:34 pm

Plurple_Unicorn wrote:Got into both schools. Really torn between the two. Kent's better ranked, has higher employment stats, etc. DePaul seems to be in an upward swing (poaching Kent's students). Which one will give me an advantage in working in Chicago?


Ignore those T14 or burst TLSers here.

Biglaw + Fed Cl

Chicago-Kent: 29/242= 12% 2016

Loyola-Chicago: 40/209=19% 2016

DePaul Univ: 22/234= 9.4% 2016

2nd tier Chicago law schools are doing okay comparing with those T30 state flagships, i.e. Iowa, Wisconsin, OSU, Indy etc. Kent/Loyola/DePaul do have lower percentage wise but since their class size is almost double Iowa/Wisconsin, they actually send about the same if not more grads to biglaw+fed.

It's much easier to be top 10% in DePaul than 20% in Iowa for example.

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Rigo
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby Rigo » Fri May 12, 2017 6:40 pm

chicagoburger wrote:It's much easier to be top 10% in DePaul than 20% in Iowa for example.

At least you're consistently dumb so people know to ignore you.
Stop projecting your unwise decisions.

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amta
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby amta » Fri May 12, 2017 7:02 pm

Rigo wrote:
chicagoburger wrote:It's much easier to be top 10% in DePaul than 20% in Iowa for example.

At least you're consistently dumb so people know to ignore you.
Stop projecting your unwise decisions.


hes been banned twice already. lets make it 3.

cavalier1138
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri May 12, 2017 7:16 pm

chicagoburger wrote:
Plurple_Unicorn wrote:Got into both schools. Really torn between the two. Kent's better ranked, has higher employment stats, etc. DePaul seems to be in an upward swing (poaching Kent's students). Which one will give me an advantage in working in Chicago?


Ignore those T14 or burst TLSers here.

Biglaw + Fed Cl

Chicago-Kent: 29/242= 12% 2016

Loyola-Chicago: 40/209=19% 2016

DePaul Univ: 22/234= 9.4% 2016

2nd tier Chicago law schools are doing okay comparing with those T30 state flagships, i.e. Iowa, Wisconsin, OSU, Indy etc. Kent/Loyola/DePaul do have lower percentage wise but since their class size is almost double Iowa/Wisconsin, they actually send about the same if not more grads to biglaw+fed.

It's much easier to be top 10% in DePaul than 20% in Iowa for example.


Can we please just ban him for real?

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UVA2B
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby UVA2B » Fri May 12, 2017 7:33 pm

Until I see someone actually respond positively to chiburger's asinine shtick, I'll just assume he's akin to bad elevator music in the background of actual constructive advice. Financial ruinous elevator music.

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guynourmin
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby guynourmin » Fri May 12, 2017 7:59 pm

OP, just FYI: based on last years tuition for Loyola, assuming $2,500/yr for health insurance, using 3.97% annual increase (per LST Reports), and taking into account the $15,000/yr scholarship, you total debt at repayment is about $225,000. If you paid about $1,650/mo it would take 25 years to pay off and you would pay over half a million dollars in total. Now, its unlikely you are in a position to pay that off, so you'll end up taking advantage of some type of ibr/paye/repaye/lrap/we situation -- do you understand what that means for your future? If not, you should look into it. It may be something you're fine with - plenty of people are I hear - but you should at least understand it from the outset. (and if you're living with your parents and they are buying your books, food, clothes, health insurance, etc its still over $120,000 in debt).

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri May 12, 2017 8:15 pm

chicagoburger wrote:2nd tier Chicago law schools are doing okay comparing with those T30 state flagships, i.e. Iowa, Wisconsin, OSU, Indy etc. Kent/Loyola/DePaul do have lower percentage wise but since their class size is almost double Iowa/Wisconsin, they actually send about the same if not more grads to biglaw+fed.

Oh my god, this is not how those numbers work.

timbs4339
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby timbs4339 » Sat May 13, 2017 9:42 am

It seems like a really terrible decision to go 200K+ in debt to get a job making 60K, but what do I know?

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cron1834
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby cron1834 » Sat May 13, 2017 10:02 am

OP, you are overstating the case for "trends." Schools go up and down in rankings from year to year. But over many years, these are mediocre schools that are going to stay mediocre. I think it's okay to go to a mediocre school... but not for like $200k in debt. That's just an insane decision.

A good rule of thumb is that your total debt shouldn't be higher than your first year salary, although even that's too risky for some. So, MAYBE you could justify like $180k in debt if you can basically guarantee yourself a biglaw job, where the first year salary is $180k. But if you're going to be making $60k out of law school, you shouldn't take on more than $60k in debt, which means you need a full tuition scholarship at a mediocre school, or close to it. Such a thing is possible, but it's not among your options right now.

Don't make an insane decision.

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Johann
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby Johann » Sat May 13, 2017 10:09 am

chicagoburger wrote:
Plurple_Unicorn wrote:Got into both schools. Really torn between the two. Kent's better ranked, has higher employment stats, etc. DePaul seems to be in an upward swing (poaching Kent's students). Which one will give me an advantage in working in Chicago?


Ignore those T14 or burst TLSers here.

Biglaw + Fed Cl

Chicago-Kent: 29/242= 12% 2016

Loyola-Chicago: 40/209=19% 2016

DePaul Univ: 22/234= 9.4% 2016

2nd tier Chicago law schools are doing okay comparing with those T30 state flagships, i.e. Iowa, Wisconsin, OSU, Indy etc. Kent/Loyola/DePaul do have lower percentage wise but since their class size is almost double Iowa/Wisconsin, they actually send about the same if not more grads to biglaw+fed.

It's much easier to be top 10% in DePaul than 20% in Iowa for example.


yeah i think loyola is the clearly top dog of the 3 now. kent probably has a slight edge on depaul. most of the grads from these schools work in shitlaw for a couple years before hanging their own shingle and or moving to midlaw. a lot of them also work in jd advantage roles. the law review peeps have decent shots at biglaw/clerking but that's really it.

ive got a lot of friends that graduated from both, so feel free to pm. interesting anecdote about depaul's strong alumni though - a top 5% Order of Coif/editor in chief of law review at depaul/kent was interviewing for biglaw with a depaul/kent (the same school) grad, and the interviewer asked him point blank, so depaul/kent huh, that's a tough sell...

you can go to one of these schools at this price point, but you better be ready to use PAYE (so learn up on it now), and youre gonna have to network your ass off and grind for years to get to a respectable 6 figure legal salary.

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Johann
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby Johann » Sat May 13, 2017 10:10 am

Rigo wrote:
chicagoburger wrote:It's much easier to be top 10% in DePaul than 20% in Iowa for example.

At least you're consistently dumb so people know to ignore you.
Stop projecting your unwise decisions.


you dont think its easier to get top 10% against dumber classmates? theres nothing debatable about that statement. its absolutely true.

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Johann
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby Johann » Sat May 13, 2017 10:13 am

timbs4339 wrote:It seems like a really terrible decision to go 200K+ in debt to get a job making 60K, but what do I know?

def would be without PAYE. but PAYE makes it worth the dice roll if people dont have any good alternative options.

cavalier1138
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat May 13, 2017 10:16 am

Johann wrote:
Rigo wrote:
chicagoburger wrote:It's much easier to be top 10% in DePaul than 20% in Iowa for example.

At least you're consistently dumb so people know to ignore you.
Stop projecting your unwise decisions.


you dont think its easier to get top 10% against dumber classmates? theres nothing debatable about that statement. its absolutely true.


You're right. That's why so many people who plan on being the "smartest" in their class at some shit school always get exactly what they plan on and rank in the top 10%.

Seriously, stop. You should know better.

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Johann
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby Johann » Sat May 13, 2017 10:19 am

cron1834 wrote:OP, you are overstating the case for "trends." Schools go up and down in rankings from year to year. But over many years, these are mediocre schools that are going to stay mediocre. I think it's okay to go to a mediocre school... but not for like $200k in debt. That's just an insane decision.

A good rule of thumb is that your total debt shouldn't be higher than your first year salary, although even that's too risky for some. So, MAYBE you could justify like $180k in debt if you can basically guarantee yourself a biglaw job, where the first year salary is $180k. But if you're going to be making $60k out of law school, you shouldn't take on more than $60k in debt, which means you need a full tuition scholarship at a mediocre school, or close to it. Such a thing is possible, but it's not among your options right now.

Don't make an insane decision.


this is terrible TERRIBLe cant state terrible enough times advice with PAYE/PSLF etc. your law degree is free (regardless of whether it cost 60k or 200k) after 10 years of paying 10% of your public interest/govt salary if you want to do public service.

the whole reason people can take out $200K in debt knowing they might only make 60k is because of these programs, which were targeted specifically at making your point meaningless.

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Johann
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby Johann » Sat May 13, 2017 10:24 am

reminder - investing in a legal career is a 30+ year investment and judging it based on your 1st year salary is ridiculously foolish and just as dumb as thinking that a law degree=get rich quick scheme. dont be dumb OP, law doesnt=get rich quick. its a fine path to a respectable middle class position (and maybe upper middle class, depending on how hard you work), but its a grind year after year for at least the first decade of your legal career (3 years of law school plus first years post grad).

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cron1834
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby cron1834 » Sat May 13, 2017 10:28 am

Johann wrote:
cron1834 wrote:OP, you are overstating the case for "trends." Schools go up and down in rankings from year to year. But over many years, these are mediocre schools that are going to stay mediocre. I think it's okay to go to a mediocre school... but not for like $200k in debt. That's just an insane decision.

A good rule of thumb is that your total debt shouldn't be higher than your first year salary, although even that's too risky for some. So, MAYBE you could justify like $180k in debt if you can basically guarantee yourself a biglaw job, where the first year salary is $180k. But if you're going to be making $60k out of law school, you shouldn't take on more than $60k in debt, which means you need a full tuition scholarship at a mediocre school, or close to it. Such a thing is possible, but it's not among your options right now.

Don't make an insane decision.


this is terrible TERRIBLe cant state terrible enough times advice with PAYE/PSLF etc. your law degree is free (regardless of whether it cost 60k or 200k) after 10 years of paying 10% of your public interest/govt salary if you want to do public service.

the whole reason people can take out $200K in debt knowing they might only make 60k is because of these programs, which were targeted specifically at making your point meaningless.

Please, tell me about the hordes of people who have had law school loans actually forgiven through PAYE/25yr so far. I'll wait. PSLF for that matter. Not to mention OP specifically stated mid-sized firm is the goal, not PI.

And I'm sure things will be just fine now that Trump/DeVos are in charge of Federal ed policy, right?

You are possibly the dumbest regular poster who contributes to the choosing threads, and you should probably stop.
Last edited by cron1834 on Sat May 13, 2017 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

cavalier1138
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Re: Chicago Kent vs DePaul

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat May 13, 2017 10:31 am

Reminder- Johann has an unusually high debt tolerance, and telling people to just stay in debt for a few decades is fucking ridiculous.




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