Penn v GULC

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matchesmalone17
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Penn v GULC

Postby matchesmalone17 » Tue May 09, 2017 12:44 pm

CoA GULC: 155k (120k scholly)
CoA Penn: 220k (44k need based aid, no merit scholly)

Will be financed entirely with loans.

170 LSAT, 3.0 GPA. Not likely I could get a better score with a re-take, and I've decided not to re-apply next cycle.

Am very interested in electronic privacy. Could see myself joining a privacy practice at a Big Law firm for a couple of years, but probably wouldn't want to do Big Law long term. Would like to work at a PI job focused on privacy, and potentially start my own advocacy org in this realm down the road. Might also work at a smaller firm more focused on privacy from a consumer angle. Would like to do a federal clerkship immediately after law school.

I’m leaning very heavily towards Penn right now because of their significantly better employment #s, smaller size, and more chill student culture. There’s also a dual degree program at Penn I think I’d want to take advantage of, and like that I’d have the resources of the wider university available. I think I am more likely to find the kind of job I want to do out of Penn than GULC.

I like some of the professors and programs at Georgetown in my interest area, but am very unimpressed with the administration and generally concerned about their job placement #s. I think I’d be more excited about being in DC (and externing during the year) if the federal government was in the hands of a different administration.

The extra 80k is significant, but I think the marginal benefits of attending Penn for that price outweigh the marginal costs for me. Would love to hear thoughts of others here.

lakers180
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Re: Penn v GULC

Postby lakers180 » Tue May 09, 2017 12:48 pm

Tough choice, but I would go GULC, don't think Penn is worth 80k extra, that COA is just too high.

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guynourmin
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Re: Penn v GULC

Postby guynourmin » Tue May 09, 2017 12:50 pm

put up a poll! I'm not sure which is the right choice. That's a lot of money for Penn, maybe too much. but I think your concern about GULC's employment numbers is a legitimate one.

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UVA2B
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Re: Penn v GULC

Postby UVA2B » Tue May 09, 2017 12:56 pm

I can see why you're struggling with this decision. This is the epitome of debt aversion vs. professional risk aversion.

My initial instinct was GULC because Penn wasn't worth an extra $80k, immediately reverted and thought maybe it was actually worth $80k more for that extra ~30% BL+FC rate.

Neither option is terrible, and neither option is hands down better. Have you tried negotiating with Penn to give a smaller scholarship? Getting them down to ~$200k debt would tip the scales to me.

kingpin101
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Re: Penn v GULC

Postby kingpin101 » Tue May 09, 2017 1:11 pm

I'm pretty debt adverse, but I just would not be comfortable with attending GULC w/ biglaw as my goal.

01panm
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Re: Penn v GULC

Postby 01panm » Thu May 11, 2017 1:26 am

I would go with Penn.

I think it's more than just the 80k difference. If it was GULC at 30k COA and Penn at 110k, a debt averse person might reasonably go GULC, because it's close to free.

But with this, it's not a choice between nearly no debt and debt. It's a choice between debt and more debt - I just wouldn't be comfortable going into that much debt for GULC given how shaky the outcomes are.

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rpupkin
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Re: Penn v GULC

Postby rpupkin » Thu May 11, 2017 1:56 am

matchesmalone17 wrote:Would like to work at a PI job focused on privacy, and potentially start my own advocacy org in this realm down the road. Might also work at a smaller firm more focused on privacy from a consumer angle. Would like to do a federal clerkship immediately after law school.

I’m leaning very heavily towards Penn right now because of their significantly better employment #s, smaller size, and more chill student culture.

Penn has strong employment #s because it's great at dumping people into NYC big law and because most of its students are satisfied with that outcome. But if you're serious about "a PI job focused on privacy," Penn's employment numbers are largely irrelevant.

I think what this comes down to is how serious you are about your niche career. If it's really important to you, then go to the school where you'll take on the least debt—which is GULC. But if you're only half serious about that career—if you would be fine ending up at a big law firm grinding away in NYC for several years in a non-privacy field—then Penn.

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Easterbork
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Re: Penn v GULC

Postby Easterbork » Thu May 11, 2017 2:09 am

I would pick Penn. If you underperform you'll likely get generic big law, which you seem to be open to (which means you WILL be open to it).

If you pick GULC and underperform you are unemployed. In fact if you merely perform you could still likely be underemployed. And you'd still have a ton of debt.

Since you want to start your career in big law I say Penn. While the difference in debt is high, you are already opting into relatively high debt with GULC that will require a good job to service it.

Lawhopeful1128
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Re: Penn v GULC

Postby Lawhopeful1128 » Thu May 11, 2017 11:56 am

I'm also debating between the schools though with different scholarship numbers, if you want to hear my thoughts PM me.

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existentialcrisis
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Re: Penn v GULC

Postby existentialcrisis » Thu May 11, 2017 2:14 pm

Lawhopeful1128 wrote:I'm also debating between the schools though with different scholarship numbers, if you want to hear my thoughts PM me.


The scholarship numbers are the most important factor though?

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Wild Card
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Re: Penn v GULC

Postby Wild Card » Thu May 11, 2017 5:53 pm

Penn sucks. They tried to low ball me too.

First told me that there was no need-based aid left. Then I told them I got $ from CCN, and they came up with $50,000 out of nowhere. They weren't even willing to match and did some bullshit cost-of-living adjustment.

Fuck Penn. Tell them to stop fucking around.

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Wild Card
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Re: Penn v GULC

Postby Wild Card » Thu May 11, 2017 5:55 pm

rpupkin wrote:
matchesmalone17 wrote:Would like to work at a PI job focused on privacy, and potentially start my own advocacy org in this realm down the road. Might also work at a smaller firm more focused on privacy from a consumer angle. Would like to do a federal clerkship immediately after law school.

I’m leaning very heavily towards Penn right now because of their significantly better employment #s, smaller size, and more chill student culture.

Penn has strong employment #s because it's great at dumping people into NYC big law and because most of its students are satisfied with that outcome. But if you're serious about "a PI job focused on privacy," Penn's employment numbers are largely irrelevant.

I think what this comes down to is how serious you are about your niche career. If it's really important to you, then go to the school where you'll take on the least debt—which is GULC. But if you're only half serious about that career—if you would be fine ending up at a big law firm grinding away in NYC for several years in a non-privacy field—then Penn.


And most of those superior legal minds probably end up at V100+ firms.

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Glasseyes
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Re: Penn v GULC

Postby Glasseyes » Sat May 13, 2017 1:34 am

The debt to risk ratio is just a personal choice; nobody can tell you whether $80k is worth a better shot at working in a generic NYC corp or lit group, but recognize that's what it buys you and choose accordingly.

That said, I can vouch for GULC's privacy curriculum, which has expanded rapidly in the last few years and is getting really good. Professors like Marc Rotenberg, Paul Ohm, Julie Cohen, Laura Donohue, David Vladeck and some others are legitimately at the top of the field. In conjunction with the work going on in the Center on Privacy and Technology (if you follow privacy on any level, you should have seen their Perpetual Line-Up report on police face recognition systems) and the new Technology journal, there's suddenly a lot to do in the space. On top of that, DC and Silicon Valley are the only places in the country to be if you really want to see this stuff, and I'd argue the best practices are all out of DC (not to mention the bulk of the NGOs and obviously stuff like the FTC, FCC, NIST, NTIA, NHTSA and all the other agencies that touch these issues). None of this stuff guarantees you a job, but if you're serious about the niche, there's a lot to dig into at GULC. People rarely frame it this way, but I doubt there's a better place to study regulatory law than here.

matchesmalone17
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Re: Penn v GULC

Postby matchesmalone17 » Tue May 23, 2017 8:26 am

Thanks for the advice everyone. I chose Penn.

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existentialcrisis
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Re: Penn v GULC

Postby existentialcrisis » Tue May 23, 2017 8:25 pm

matchesmalone17 wrote:Thanks for the advice everyone. I chose Penn.


Great username.




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