Opinions on ASU law?

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hunter222
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Opinions on ASU law?

Postby hunter222 » Mon May 01, 2017 3:15 pm

Ive seen very mixed reviews on the quality of Arizona State law, mainly when it comes to career prospects post grad. Anyone knowledgable on the matter have an opinion that could be of use?

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UVA2B
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Re: Opinions on ASU law?

Postby UVA2B » Mon May 01, 2017 3:23 pm

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/asu/

It'll do well enough in AZ, but not much pull elsewhere. If you want to work in AZ and are cool with lower paid small firm or local government/public service work, it's a good option for the right cost.

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half moon
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Re: Opinions on ASU law?

Postby half moon » Mon May 01, 2017 3:44 pm

Full disclosure up front: I'm a 0L who is very familiar with ASU generally and somewhat but not especially familiar with the law school. So take this for what you will

They do pretty well in-state, and have some good connections with Phoenix firms. My understanding is that generally, in-state firms see ASU as comparable to University of Arizona. I think they have a little reach into the rest of the Southwest, primarily Utah and New Mexico, but not much. If you're looking to go to a big market though, you'd probably need to be something like top 5-10%. Like UVA2B said, its a good option at the right price if you're ok working at a small/midsize firm in Arizona. For anything outside of that though, its risky.

recentlawgrad101
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Re: Opinions on ASU law?

Postby recentlawgrad101 » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:18 pm

I just graduated from ASU law in May 2017. I've got a clerkship at the Arizona Court of Appeals starting in September. I loved my time here at ASU. I had more job opportunities (externships, internships, and post-grad full-time) than I could accept. I'm right at the 50% class standing on grades, so no artificial bump in job prospects from good grades. The law school just moved to a brand new building in downtown phoenix, close to all the government entities and law firms. This has helped a lot of students get integrated with the legal community. Reputation-wise, ASU's rank is on the rise. It's a powerhouse in Phoenix, and most of AZ (Tucson obviously favors the UofA), but it also carries some weight in Southern Utah, Colorado, and New Mexico. There's also a program that lets students spend a semester in D.C., so some students build networks out there with government agencies. In short, there are plenty of opportunities at ASU and the job prospects are good at graduation.

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cron1834
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Re: Opinions on ASU law?

Postby cron1834 » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:06 am

I don't see any reason to think ASU is better or worse than the aggregate data suggests it is. So, look at the numbers in the link that were posted above.

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UVA2B
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Re: Opinions on ASU law?

Postby UVA2B » Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:20 am

recentlawgrad101 wrote:I just graduated from ASU law in May 2017. I've got a clerkship at the Arizona Court of Appeals starting in September. I loved my time here at ASU. I had more job opportunities (externships, internships, and post-grad full-time) than I could accept. I'm right at the 50% class standing on grades, so no artificial bump in job prospects from good grades. The law school just moved to a brand new building in downtown phoenix, close to all the government entities and law firms. This has helped a lot of students get integrated with the legal community. Reputation-wise, ASU's rank is on the rise. It's a powerhouse in Phoenix, and most of AZ (Tucson obviously favors the UofA), but it also carries some weight in Southern Utah, Colorado, and New Mexico. There's also a program that lets students spend a semester in D.C., so some students build networks out there with government agencies. In short, there are plenty of opportunities at ASU and the job prospects are good at graduation.


Respectfully, what were the post-grad full time positions you turned down for the state clerkship? And were they for permanent employment? And what sort of salary was expected at the positions you turned down for the state clerkship? And what suggests ASU being somehow "on the rise?" It reached up to #26 on USNWR in the past 5 years or so, but the employment numbers haven't changed relative to the market. So what makes your perspective unique from the above linked statistics?

Please understand I'm not trying to disparage ASU or your experience there. I'm sure you had a great time, learned a lot, and are happy with your particular outcome. But the data doesn't lie, and the data suggests ASU is exactly what it should be: a decent regional for the Southwest. At the right price, it makes complete sense for someone wanting to end up in AZ or its immediate outlying communities on the borders. Beyond that, it has limited placement ability, particularly if relying on higher compensation (which is admittedly incomplete when we're talking about the only data we have at 10 months following graduation, but it's the only reasonably available data).

I respect you want people to look positively on your alma mater, but ASU is firmly placed in the market, and nothing you provided actually changes the way a prospective student should view it.

recentlawgrad101
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Re: Opinions on ASU law?

Postby recentlawgrad101 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:18 pm

UVA2B wrote:
recentlawgrad101 wrote:I just graduated from ASU law in May 2017. I've got a clerkship at the Arizona Court of Appeals starting in September. I loved my time here at ASU. I had more job opportunities (externships, internships, and post-grad full-time) than I could accept. I'm right at the 50% class standing on grades, so no artificial bump in job prospects from good grades. The law school just moved to a brand new building in downtown phoenix, close to all the government entities and law firms. This has helped a lot of students get integrated with the legal community. Reputation-wise, ASU's rank is on the rise. It's a powerhouse in Phoenix, and most of AZ (Tucson obviously favors the UofA), but it also carries some weight in Southern Utah, Colorado, and New Mexico. There's also a program that lets students spend a semester in D.C., so some students build networks out there with government agencies. In short, there are plenty of opportunities at ASU and the job prospects are good at graduation.


Respectfully, what were the post-grad full time positions you turned down for the state clerkship? And were they for permanent employment? And what sort of salary was expected at the positions you turned down for the state clerkship? And what suggests ASU being somehow "on the rise?" It reached up to #26 on USNWR in the past 5 years or so, but the employment numbers haven't changed relative to the market. So what makes your perspective unique from the above linked statistics?

Please understand I'm not trying to disparage ASU or your experience there. I'm sure you had a great time, learned a lot, and are happy with your particular outcome. But the data doesn't lie, and the data suggests ASU is exactly what it should be: a decent regional for the Southwest. At the right price, it makes complete sense for someone wanting to end up in AZ or its immediate outlying communities on the borders. Beyond that, it has limited placement ability, particularly if relying on higher compensation (which is admittedly incomplete when we're talking about the only data we have at 10 months following graduation, but it's the only reasonably available data).

I respect you want people to look positively on your alma mater, but ASU is firmly placed in the market, and nothing you provided actually changes the way a prospective student should view it.


I had a couple of county attorney positions available, pending bar passage of course. They were permanent positions. I'm planning on staying in public service positions, not law firms, so if large salaries are your metric for a good law school, I'm not going to be much help there. As far as ASU being on the rise, all you need to do is look at the statistics. Over the last eight years ASU rose from 55 to 25 (you're a little behind on your stats). I don't know how else you could interpret that data other than progressing upward. Unless your're in a T14, what you said about geographic placement applies to most law schools. Nothing new there, people work where they go to law school. That's where you build a network, where the majority of the hiring alumni live, and where the school has the best reputation.

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UVA2B
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Re: Opinions on ASU law?

Postby UVA2B » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:35 pm

recentlawgrad101 wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
recentlawgrad101 wrote:I just graduated from ASU law in May 2017. I've got a clerkship at the Arizona Court of Appeals starting in September. I loved my time here at ASU. I had more job opportunities (externships, internships, and post-grad full-time) than I could accept. I'm right at the 50% class standing on grades, so no artificial bump in job prospects from good grades. The law school just moved to a brand new building in downtown phoenix, close to all the government entities and law firms. This has helped a lot of students get integrated with the legal community. Reputation-wise, ASU's rank is on the rise. It's a powerhouse in Phoenix, and most of AZ (Tucson obviously favors the UofA), but it also carries some weight in Southern Utah, Colorado, and New Mexico. There's also a program that lets students spend a semester in D.C., so some students build networks out there with government agencies. In short, there are plenty of opportunities at ASU and the job prospects are good at graduation.


Respectfully, what were the post-grad full time positions you turned down for the state clerkship? And were they for permanent employment? And what sort of salary was expected at the positions you turned down for the state clerkship? And what suggests ASU being somehow "on the rise?" It reached up to #26 on USNWR in the past 5 years or so, but the employment numbers haven't changed relative to the market. So what makes your perspective unique from the above linked statistics?

Please understand I'm not trying to disparage ASU or your experience there. I'm sure you had a great time, learned a lot, and are happy with your particular outcome. But the data doesn't lie, and the data suggests ASU is exactly what it should be: a decent regional for the Southwest. At the right price, it makes complete sense for someone wanting to end up in AZ or its immediate outlying communities on the borders. Beyond that, it has limited placement ability, particularly if relying on higher compensation (which is admittedly incomplete when we're talking about the only data we have at 10 months following graduation, but it's the only reasonably available data).

I respect you want people to look positively on your alma mater, but ASU is firmly placed in the market, and nothing you provided actually changes the way a prospective student should view it.


I had a couple of county attorney positions available, pending bar passage of course. They were permanent positions. I'm planning on staying in public service positions, not law firms, so if large salaries are your metric for a good law school, I'm not going to be much help there. As far as ASU being on the rise, all you need to do is look at the statistics. Over the last eight years ASU rose from 55 to 25 (you're a little behind on your stats). I don't know how else you could interpret that data other than progressing upward. Unless your're in a T14, what you said about geographic placement applies to most law schools. Nothing new there, people work where they go to law school. That's where you build a network, where the majority of the hiring alumni live, and where the school has the best reputation.


Probably just an instance of slightly talking past one another, because I think we're saying the same thing from two different perspectives. It's a good school for practicing locally in the AZ area, but not much beyond that. And while there may be some upward trend in USNWR rank (you're right that I missed this year's #25 ranking, I was referring to a few years back when it went up to #26), that doesn't really change anything about the outcomes available from the school. The hiring of ASU grads, like most law schools, has tracked with the general health of the legal market. So while you may want to claim that it's reputation is on the rise, that's entirely limited to the USNWR sense, which is really meaningless in that tier of law school (which is also true of pretty much any tier of law school, tbf).

You can tout the quality of education and programs at ASU all day long, but the statistical reality is linked above, and that reality is that ~2/3 of its graduates are working as attorneys in full-time, long-term positions and nearly ~10% are completely unemployed. That fact should probably matter to someone considering ASU Law more than whether there is a program that sends students to DC for a semester, don't you think?

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Jordan77
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Re: Opinions on ASU law?

Postby Jordan77 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:44 am

Double devil myself. In my 7th year of practice in Phoenix.

ASU is a great law school that will allow you to find employment fairly well in Arizona. Back when I graduated, you probably needed top 5-10% to get in with the few big firms out here for the big salaries. With that said, the cost of living here in Phoenix makes a lot of the lower salaries still comparable to some of the higher paying positions in high COL cities.

ASU will do well in Arizona, and has some pull in southern California and New Mexico.

Great clinics and externships available through ASU.

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stego
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Re: Opinions on ASU law?

Postby stego » Sun Jun 18, 2017 2:17 am

It might be easier to list the law schools that don't have a semester in DC externship than to list the ones that do tbh

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lavarman84
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Re: Opinions on ASU law?

Postby lavarman84 » Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:26 am

For what little it's worth, when I was in Phoenix recently, the area around the law school seemed really cool. It seems like a great place to spend three years (I really liked Phoenix).




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