Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

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Keynes
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Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby Keynes » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:10 pm

Completely dropped the ball on my negotiation with Penn, so I'm left with a $15k/year scholarship to Michigan and sticker at Penn. Michigan COA will be about $185,000, while Penn will be roughly $270,000. That is taking into account some savings and 2L SA. The rest will be financed with loans.

My goals and interests are fairly broad. I'm a Teach For America alum and would love to do PI/bigfed work in education, immigration, and voter protection. Open to biglaw for a few years to gain experience and pay off a significant portion of my loans. Regardless, I'd like to be in DC long term. I have ties in North Carolina and Florida.

Now for the most difficult piece...I have a 164/3.9. I know the conventional TLS wisdom in this case would be to re-take, which I already did....and got a lower score. I did PT up to a 168, but at this point, I'm not confident I can deliver in that range on test day. I've taken probably 25 practice tests and got consistently near perfect on logic games; reading comprehension really tanked my score, and my LR hardly improved at all over time.

I visited both Michigan and Penn and loved them for different reasons. I left Michigan feeling I could thrive in Ann Arbor, while Penn was attractive for its proximity to summer opportunities and Business Economics and Public Policy certificate from Wharton (I was an economics major/teacher). I also have an SO who would prefer Philly for her own professional reasons.

Given my difficulty in improving my LSAT, should I take the small amount of money at Michigan or pursue Penn given the greater likelihood of landing a biglaw gig? Appreciate any guidance!

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presidentspivey
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby presidentspivey » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:19 pm

Some will still advise the retake here, but if you've already retaken once and are excellent on LG, I think you could justify not doing so again. So, putting aside the retake, is a 15.9% BL+FC difference in favor of Penn worth 85k? I'd say yes.

quigleyest
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby quigleyest » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:25 pm

Retake for HYS or $$. Get a tutor /lesson. Many points left on the table. Have a 3.6 and $-$$ to CCN myself and you could do alot better ! Good luck

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Iwanttolawschool
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby Iwanttolawschool » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:33 pm

presidentspivey wrote:Some will still advise the retake here, but if you've already retaken once and are excellent on LG, I think you could justify not doing so again. So, putting aside the retake, is a 15.9% BL+FC difference in favor of Penn worth 85k? I'd say yes.


OP, please don't listen to 0L's. You should retake/reapply. If you absolutely must go to law school, you should try to continue to negotiate, even if they say no six times in a row, they won't rescind your offer and once you commit to a school, you'll never see admissions again. If the money doesn't change AND you absolutely must go to law school, then Penn is definitely not worth $85,000 more than Michigan.

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Rigo
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby Rigo » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:34 pm

presidentspivey wrote:Some will still advise the retake here, but if you've already retaken once and are excellent on LG, I think you could justify not doing so again. So, putting aside the retake, is a 15.9% BL+FC difference in favor of Penn worth 85k? I'd say yes.

I suggest the opposite of everything in here.
Retake and if not, Michigan.

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presidentspivey
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby presidentspivey » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:36 pm

Rigo wrote:
presidentspivey wrote:Some will still advise the retake here, but if you've already retaken once and are excellent on LG, I think you could justify not doing so again. So, putting aside the retake, is a 15.9% BL+FC difference in favor of Penn worth 85k? I'd say yes.

I suggest the opposite of everything in here.
Retake and if not, Michigan.

I'm softer on the retake, but why Michigan over Penn? Are you just on the other side of cost/downside risk analysis or is there some other factor?

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Rigo
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby Rigo » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:37 pm

presidentspivey wrote:
Rigo wrote:
presidentspivey wrote:Some will still advise the retake here, but if you've already retaken once and are excellent on LG, I think you could justify not doing so again. So, putting aside the retake, is a 15.9% BL+FC difference in favor of Penn worth 85k? I'd say yes.

I suggest the opposite of everything in here.
Retake and if not, Michigan.

I'm softer on the retake, but why Michigan over Penn? Are you just on the other side of cost/downside risk analysis or is there some other factor?

Other side of cost/downside risk.

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rpupkin
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby rpupkin » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:40 pm

presidentspivey wrote:Some will still advise the retake here , but if you've already retaken once and are excellent on LG, I think you could justify not doing so again. So, putting aside the retake, is a 15.9% BL+FC difference in favor of Penn worth 85k? I'd say yes.

Keynes
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby Keynes » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:57 pm

Could someone get a bit more into the how of a successful retake? What types of jobs do people get for a year that allow for the energy after work to effectively study for 2-3 hours? Maybe it was because I was teaching but studying in the evening was incredibly challenging.

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rpupkin
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby rpupkin » Fri Apr 28, 2017 9:08 pm

Keynes wrote:Could someone get a bit more into the how of a successful retake? What types of jobs do people get for a year that allow for the energy after work to effectively study for 2-3 hours?

Think of it this way: an increase of 5 or 6 points could cut $100K - 200K off your COA. It's like you're getting paid hundreds of dollars an hour to study for the LSAT.

Justtrying2help
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby Justtrying2help » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:57 am

You must retake. You're paying too much to attend those schools with a 3.9 gpa.

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cron1834
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby cron1834 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:32 pm

presidentspivey wrote:
Rigo wrote:
presidentspivey wrote:Some will still advise the retake here, but if you've already retaken once and are excellent on LG, I think you could justify not doing so again. So, putting aside the retake, is a 15.9% BL+FC difference in favor of Penn worth 85k? I'd say yes.

I suggest the opposite of everything in here.
Retake and if not, Michigan.

I'm softer on the retake, but why Michigan over Penn? Are you just on the other side of cost/downside risk analysis or is there some other factor?

B/C $270k in debt is insane and totally not advisable. Stop giving people advice, seriously. Your post is ban-worthy.

OP, you have to retake. Both of these costs are about twice what you'd pay with even 5 extra questions right. And you will have other T13 options as well. Don't take on an extra hundred grand in debt just because.

tinyvessels
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby tinyvessels » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:39 pm

How did you study? Only those twenty five practice tests? I would retake and invest in a class or tutoring. I know it's expensive, but it's a good investment if you are already at 165 with just doing twenty five practice tests.

Keynes
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby Keynes » Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:42 pm

tinyvessels wrote:How did you study? Only those twenty five practice tests? I would retake and invest in a class or tutoring. I know it's expensive, but it's a good investment if you are already at 165 with just doing twenty five practice tests.


For September '16 - LG Bible and took practice tests. Started studying in June, probably did 10 hours a week in June and July, August I got distracted with personal stuff. Got a 164.

For December '16 - Did a bit of 7sage, blind reviewed some, did the LR Bible. Got a 161 after bombing the games, knew I should have cancelled but didn't.

What should I do differently if I decide to retake? I remember averaging about -4 on LR, -1 or -2 on LG, and -7 on RC.

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anyriotgirl
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby anyriotgirl » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:28 pm

Keynes wrote:
tinyvessels wrote:How did you study? Only those twenty five practice tests? I would retake and invest in a class or tutoring. I know it's expensive, but it's a good investment if you are already at 165 with just doing twenty five practice tests.


For September '16 - LG Bible and took practice tests. Started studying in June, probably did 10 hours a week in June and July, August I got distracted with personal stuff. Got a 164.

For December '16 - Did a bit of 7sage, blind reviewed some, did the LR Bible. Got a 161 after bombing the games, knew I should have cancelled but didn't.

What should I do differently if I decide to retake? I remember averaging about -4 on LR, -1 or -2 on LG, and -7 on RC.


people here rag on the classes, but honestly you seem like you might benefit from some additional structure and accountability

Pure Applesauce
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby Pure Applesauce » Mon May 01, 2017 10:35 am

With a 3.9 and your only options leaving you $200k in debt, you would be crazy not to retake

tinyvessels
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby tinyvessels » Mon May 01, 2017 5:24 pm

Keynes wrote:
tinyvessels wrote:How did you study? Only those twenty five practice tests? I would retake and invest in a class or tutoring. I know it's expensive, but it's a good investment if you are already at 165 with just doing twenty five practice tests.


For September '16 - LG Bible and took practice tests. Started studying in June, probably did 10 hours a week in June and July, August I got distracted with personal stuff. Got a 164.

For December '16 - Did a bit of 7sage, blind reviewed some, did the LR Bible. Got a 161 after bombing the games, knew I should have cancelled but didn't.

What should I do differently if I decide to retake? I remember averaging about -4 on LR, -1 or -2 on LG, and -7 on RC.


Umm, okay, full disclosure I'm not the best person to ask about increasing an LSAT score. But I was able to increase around fifteen points with blueprint. That being said, my diagnostic was probably lower than yours so even with such a big increase, I my score was still not where I would have wanted it to be.

Since you're already doing well on games for the most part, maybe look into a couple hours of private tutoring to focus on your weak areas because the Blueprint course might be a little slow for you since they very much focus on getting the basics for logic games and logical reasoning down. FWIW, I'm the opposite of you in that my best section has always been RC, and worst was, and still is, LG so the prep course helped me.

You can PM me if you want to talk more about taking a course, etc.

carsondalywashere
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby carsondalywashere » Mon May 01, 2017 6:13 pm

Feel free to PM me, but I believe the key to unlocking RC is mastering LR.

Malarkey
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby Malarkey » Mon May 01, 2017 6:41 pm

I also think you should retake, but did you get a bigger scholarship anywhere else?

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Michigan ($) vs Penn vs Second Retake

Postby SmokeytheBear » Mon May 01, 2017 7:17 pm

Rigo wrote:
presidentspivey wrote:Some will still advise the retake here, but if you've already retaken once and are excellent on LG, I think you could justify not doing so again. So, putting aside the retake, is a 15.9% BL+FC difference in favor of Penn worth 85k? I'd say yes.

I suggest the opposite of everything in here.
Retake and if not, Michigan.




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