Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where should I go?

Poll ended at Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:18 pm

Harvard (COA $204,000)
18
34%
Columbia (COA $140,000)
14
26%
Reapply (making $40-50,000 during the year)
21
40%
 
Total votes: 53

McMooch
Posts: 57
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Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby McMooch » Mon May 01, 2017 11:03 am

Alexandros wrote:Your LSN profile says you have $105k at Chicago - Is that true, and is there a reason why that's not an option? I apologize if this was already addressed. (TCR is reapply, though.)

Wow, we're very thorough! For personal reasons, I have to stay on the east coast.

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quiver
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Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby quiver » Mon May 01, 2017 11:06 am

rpupkin wrote:
McMooch wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
McMooch wrote:Goals are litigation, especially appellate litigation, in secondary market (TX, FL, etc.).

Oh, I missed this. If your goal is appellate litigation in Texas or Florida, then you should go to a Texas or Florida law school. Neither HLS nor CLS will help you much with your goal.

Really? That's not the type of secondary market we're referring to?

We were referring to big law offices in secondary markets. But if you're focused on something as esoteric as appellate litigation in Texas or Florida (which the big law firms don't really do), then your focus needs to change.
Yeah, timeout.

First, what attracts you to appellate litigation other than "prestige"? Do you know what it entails? Do you know how it works?

Second, as rpupkin alluded to, there are very very few jobs in dedicated "appellate litigation". If you're talking about the federal level, these are the elite of elite (T13 + top 5-10% grades + feeder/SCOTUS clerkship), and they generally work in insanely credentialed lit boutiques (e.g., Kellogg Hansen), insanely credentialed departments of biglaw firms (e.g., GDC/Wilmer DC), or insanely credentialed departments of the federal government (e.g., OSG). Those outcomes are so "unicorn-ish" that they can't be figured into your plans at all. Moreover, the vast majority of these jobs will not be in secondary markets. (There may be some dedicated appellate shops in secondary markets that do like all immigration or 1983 litigation at the federal level, but that's not generally what 0Ls are talking about when they say "appellate litigation").

If you're talking about the state level, as in "state appellate litigation", this is much more attainable but, as rpupkin noted, will be much more dependent on other factors like ties and experience. So if you want to do Texas appellate lit with no ties, you should get full ride to Texas and get as much appellate experience as you can during law school. Again, though, the state appellate issues aren't as "sexy" as 0Ls are likely envisioning.

I think much of the discussion in this thread was based around the idea of you going to generic biglaw. If you're actually looking for state-level appellate lit in a secondary market, then that's fine and you should probably reapply and shoot for a school in your target market with a full ride, or take a full ride to a T14 if you have pre-existing ties to a secondary market. If you actually want sexy, federal appellate lit, then you need to reassess your goals. In the (most likely) scenario that you have no idea idea what appellate lit is or what it entails, you should also reassess your goals and likely focus on the generic biglaw lit debate that has enveloped most of this thread.

lakers180
Posts: 211
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Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby lakers180 » Mon May 01, 2017 8:31 pm

chicago is a few hour under hundred dollar flight to nyc most of the time. whatever reason you have that you could be at either harvard or columbia you could be at chicago

best option of the 3

otherwise reapply

Alexandros
Posts: 6478
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:46 am

Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby Alexandros » Mon May 01, 2017 9:02 pm

.
Last edited by Alexandros on Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LHS17
Posts: 99
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Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby LHS17 » Mon May 01, 2017 9:36 pm

Npret wrote:
McMooch wrote:
UVA2B wrote:*Checks in to see more people are now voting for Harvard at $200k debt over Columbia for $140k or reapplying for T13 for full ride
*Loses faith in the silent majority who refuse to actually give a good reason for their choice
*Realizes these really have to be 0Ls who don't consider this theoretical "debt" they're taking on compared to the realities of the legal market
*Feels a little bit better

*Will not be able to sleep tonight because worried about botching life altering decision

Omg. Grow up. You're choosing between two of the top law schools in the country with similar outcomes. The lack of "life altering" differences between these schools is what the thread is all about.

You're not trying to decide which trafficker to trust to get your family out of Syria.


You haven't been to Syria. Why are you commenting?

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UVA2B
Posts: 3094
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby UVA2B » Mon May 01, 2017 9:44 pm

quiver wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
McMooch wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
McMooch wrote:Goals are litigation, especially appellate litigation, in secondary market (TX, FL, etc.).

Oh, I missed this. If your goal is appellate litigation in Texas or Florida, then you should go to a Texas or Florida law school. Neither HLS nor CLS will help you much with your goal.

Really? That's not the type of secondary market we're referring to?

We were referring to big law offices in secondary markets. But if you're focused on something as esoteric as appellate litigation in Texas or Florida (which the big law firms don't really do), then your focus needs to change.
Yeah, timeout.

First, what attracts you to appellate litigation other than "prestige"? Do you know what it entails? Do you know how it works?

Second, as rpupkin alluded to, there are very very few jobs in dedicated "appellate litigation". If you're talking about the federal level, these are the elite of elite (T13 + top 5-10% grades + feeder/SCOTUS clerkship), and they generally work in insanely credentialed lit boutiques (e.g., Kellogg Hansen), insanely credentialed departments of biglaw firms (e.g., GDC/Wilmer DC), or insanely credentialed departments of the federal government (e.g., OSG). Those outcomes are so "unicorn-ish" that they can't be figured into your plans at all. Moreover, the vast majority of these jobs will not be in secondary markets. (There may be some dedicated appellate shops in secondary markets that do like all immigration or 1983 litigation at the federal level, but that's not generally what 0Ls are talking about when they say "appellate litigation").

If you're talking about the state level, as in "state appellate litigation", this is much more attainable but, as rpupkin noted, will be much more dependent on other factors like ties and experience. So if you want to do Texas appellate lit with no ties, you should get full ride to Texas and get as much appellate experience as you can during law school. Again, though, the state appellate issues aren't as "sexy" as 0Ls are likely envisioning.

I think much of the discussion in this thread was based around the idea of you going to generic biglaw. If you're actually looking for state-level appellate lit in a secondary market, then that's fine and you should probably reapply and shoot for a school in your target market with a full ride, or take a full ride to a T14 if you have pre-existing ties to a secondary market. If you actually want sexy, federal appellate lit, then you need to reassess your goals. In the (most likely) scenario that you have no idea idea what appellate lit is or what it entails, you should also reassess your goals and likely focus on the generic biglaw lit debate that has enveloped most of this thread.


Great post.

McMooch
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:19 pm

Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby McMooch » Mon May 01, 2017 9:50 pm

This fall, I'm gonna take my talents to... Columbia.

I didn't think reapplying with my weak undergraduate transcript (can PM me for details) was going to get me a better option, the options for my generic career goals are about the same, and I have some personal reasons to stay in NY. Still trying to get over the loss of Harvard, but I'm sure it'll be fine.

Thank you so much to everyone who weighed in! It's amazing to get care, concern, and a bit of scolding from people I've never met. Best of luck to all of you!

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Rigo
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Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby Rigo » Mon May 01, 2017 9:52 pm

Congrats!

Npret
Posts: 1163
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:42 am

Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby Npret » Mon May 01, 2017 9:52 pm

McMooch wrote:This fall, I'm gonna take my talents to... Columbia.

I didn't think reapplying with my weak undergraduate transcript (can PM me for details) was going to get me a better option, the options for my generic career goals are about the same, and I have some personal reasons to stay in NY. Still trying to get over the loss of Harvard, but I'm sure it'll be fine.

Thank you so much to everyone who weighed in! It's amazing to get care, concern, and a bit of scolding from people I've never met. Best of luck to all of you!


Congrats. Celebrate and enjoy Columbia.

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UVA2B
Posts: 3094
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Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby UVA2B » Mon May 01, 2017 9:55 pm

Congrats, and stay active in this community down the line to help others now that you've made this decision. Whether you confirm it was the right decision or if you experience buyers remorse (not saying this will happen at all), you've at least had to weigh all the relevant factors in making this decision and will hopefully help others consider it in the future. Good luck!

McMooch
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:19 pm

Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby McMooch » Mon May 01, 2017 9:56 pm

Thanks! It's been such a pleasure to participate in a thread that will hopefully help people down the line with their decisions. And as you said, I should update it to continue to help future law students.

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Nebby
amateur huffpo
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Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby Nebby » Mon May 01, 2017 11:46 pm

Appellate litigation is boring

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rpupkin
Posts: 5629
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Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby rpupkin » Tue May 02, 2017 9:25 am

Nebby wrote:Appellate litigation is boring

shadowfax
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:39 pm

Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby shadowfax » Tue May 02, 2017 10:13 am

McMooch wrote:This fall, I'm gonna take my talents to... Columbia.

I didn't think reapplying with my weak undergraduate transcript (can PM me for details) was going to get me a better option, the options for my generic career goals are about the same, and I have some personal reasons to stay in NY. Still trying to get over the loss of Harvard, but I'm sure it'll be fine.

Thank you so much to everyone who weighed in! It's amazing to get care, concern, and a bit of scolding from people I've never met. Best of luck to all of you!


Congrats. Should be an exciting 3 years. Great school.

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jbagelboy
Posts: 10180
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby jbagelboy » Tue May 02, 2017 10:18 am

Congrats OP. I know this was a tough choice. PM me if you ever want advice/help on something and have a great time (its actually a ton of fun if you don't take yourself too seriously).

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Harvard vs. Columbia ($)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed May 03, 2017 7:17 am

rpupkin wrote:
Nebby wrote:Appellate litigation is boring

I strongly doubt the OP will end up in appellate lit, but nah.




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