1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$)

Columbia ($45,000)
10
13%
Chicago ($30,000)
5
7%
Michigan ($120,000)
60
80%
 
Total votes: 75

jasmineTT
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1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby jasmineTT » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:33 pm

Hello everyone! I am utterly stuck deciding between these 3 schools and need some help:

Columbia ($45,000): COA: $230K
Chicago ($30,000): COA: $222K
Michigan ($120,000): COA: $124K

The scholarships are in parentheses and total cost of attendance is listed. I did not factor in interest because I won't be taking out any loans. I have enough saved up to pay for my own cost of living and my family is loaning me the money needed to cover the rest of my tuition.

My goals are federal clerkship, big law in a big city (no geographical preference but long-term would like to end up in CA), then hopefully become an AUSA. I know most people here are extremely debt-averse so Michigan and its scholarship will probably be the popular choice here. But I know becoming an AUSA is a tough career path, which is why I'm leaning towards Chicago and Columbia.

I love NYC, kind of like Chicago, and super iffy about AA. Family loves Columbia (Asians are obsessed with Ivy Leagues) but we aren't rich so this would be a huge strain for them. Also been to both Columbia and Chicago and students were all super pleasant and cool but was that all for show?!

First deposits are due in less than a week help me please!!

cavalier1138
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:37 pm

Michigan.

About half of becoming an AUSA at a competitive office is being in the right place at the right time during the right kind of hiring cycle. I know a few NY attorneys who were planning on going that route and couldn't due to the last hiring freeze (and after it was done, they'd been in biglaw too long to be a good candidate). Columbia and Chicago give you a better shot at some of the firms that have more a of a direct pipeline to those offices, but it's not a $100k difference.

Pure Applesauce
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby Pure Applesauce » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:40 pm

Chicago and Columbia both give you a better shot at your career goals, but the increase is not worth $100k in my opinion. I would take Michigan.

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armc808
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby armc808 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:16 pm

I think Chicago will put you in the best position of the three schools for what you want to do, but you will have to decide if you're okay with taking out the loans for it. Chicago's LRAP is quite generous and will be able to cover your loan payments while you clerk, and starting biglaw salaries out of Chicago hover at $180k not including bonuses; in short, you will have the means to pay back your loans, but it's still a significant investment.

KatCoco
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby KatCoco » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:24 pm

armc808 wrote:I think Chicago will put you in the best position of the three schools for what you want to do, but you will have to decide if you're okay with taking out the loans for it. Chicago's LRAP is quite generous and will be able to cover your loan payments while you clerk, and starting biglaw salaries out of Chicago hover at $180k not including bonuses; in short, you will have the means to pay back your loans, but it's still a significant investment.


Dude, an LRAP program is not going to cover loans she took out from her parents.

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quiver
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby quiver » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:27 pm

Pure Applesauce wrote:Chicago and Columbia both give you a better shot at your career goals, but the increase is not worth $100k in my opinion. I would take Michigan.
cavalier1138 wrote:Michigan.

About half of becoming an AUSA at a competitive office is being in the right place at the right time during the right kind of hiring cycle. I know a few NY attorneys who were planning on going that route and couldn't due to the last hiring freeze (and after it was done, they'd been in biglaw too long to be a good candidate). Columbia and Chicago give you a better shot at some of the firms that have more a of a direct pipeline to those offices, but it's not a $100k difference.
Thirded. OP, take Michigan and don't look back.

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armc808
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby armc808 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:54 pm

KatCoco wrote:
armc808 wrote:I think Chicago will put you in the best position of the three schools for what you want to do, but you will have to decide if you're okay with taking out the loans for it. Chicago's LRAP is quite generous and will be able to cover your loan payments while you clerk, and starting biglaw salaries out of Chicago hover at $180k not including bonuses; in short, you will have the means to pay back your loans, but it's still a significant investment.


Dude, an LRAP program is not going to cover loans she took out from her parents.

Skimmed the OP while changing bus routes, didn't see that the loans would be coming from parents. OP would have to work how they'd pay back the loans with their parents, those details would be important in deciding whether it's worth it. Tbh I would rather owe my parents than owe the federal government, but I'm on good terms with my parents and I know they wouldn't charge me 6-7% interest.

I still stand by my original comment.

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LoganCouture
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby LoganCouture » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:03 pm

jasmineTT wrote:Family loves Columbia (Asians are obsessed with Ivy Leagues) but we aren't rich so this would be a huge strain for them.


Reason enough to take Michigan. It is an excellent school and a full $100K cheaper.

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jjcorvino
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby jjcorvino » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:35 pm

LoganCouture wrote:
jasmineTT wrote:Family loves Columbia (Asians are obsessed with Ivy Leagues) but we aren't rich so this would be a huge strain for them.


Reason enough to take Michigan. It is an excellent school and a full $100K cheaper.


Agreed, I would probably say Chicago/Columbia if he said his family is rich and this is pay as you go sort of repayment that wouldn't affect them. If this is a hardship for anyone involved the difference is not worth it.

SUPERCHEF
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby SUPERCHEF » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:36 pm

jasmineTT wrote:Hello everyone! I am utterly stuck deciding between these 3 schools and need some help:

Columbia ($45,000): COA: $230K
Chicago ($30,000): COA: $222K
Michigan ($120,000): COA: $124K

The scholarships are in parentheses and total cost of attendance is listed. I did not factor in interest because I won't be taking out any loans. I have enough saved up to pay for my own cost of living and my family is loaning me the money needed to cover the rest of my tuition.

My goals are federal clerkship, big law in a big city (no geographical preference but long-term would like to end up in CA), then hopefully become an AUSA. I know most people here are extremely debt-averse so Michigan and its scholarship will probably be the popular choice here. But I know becoming an AUSA is a tough career path, which is why I'm leaning towards Chicago and Columbia.

I love NYC, kind of like Chicago, and super iffy about AA. Family loves Columbia (Asians are obsessed with Ivy Leagues) but we aren't rich so this would be a huge strain for them. Also been to both Columbia and Chicago and students were all super pleasant and cool but was that all for show?!

First deposits are due in less than a week help me please!!


Also interested in AUSA, and I've dug through some CVs, and it doesn't seem like they are overwhelmingly HYS or top-6, but a pretty good mix of top14/13 whatever. My guess which seems to be echoed by some of the above is that it'll depend a ton more on luck, your network, and your circumstances later in your career than where you go per se.

Also PMd.

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Nebby
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby Nebby » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:38 pm

Michigan

jasmineTT
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby jasmineTT » Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:58 pm

jjcorvino wrote:
LoganCouture wrote:
jasmineTT wrote:Family loves Columbia (Asians are obsessed with Ivy Leagues) but we aren't rich so this would be a huge strain for them.


Reason enough to take Michigan. It is an excellent school and a full $100K cheaper.


Agreed, I would probably say Chicago/Columbia if he said his family is rich and this is pay as you go sort of repayment that wouldn't affect them. If this is a hardship for anyone involved the difference is not worth it.


Thanks guys!! And yes it's a strain but they want me to go to Columbia even if it means paying more to be Ivy League educated (sorry parents for not being smart enough for a full ride). I love Chicago/Columbia but its just so. much. money. But I should be able to make enough in 3-4 years of big law to pay off a 150K 0% interest loan?

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jjcorvino
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby jjcorvino » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:03 pm

jasmineTT wrote:
jjcorvino wrote:
LoganCouture wrote:
jasmineTT wrote:Family loves Columbia (Asians are obsessed with Ivy Leagues) but we aren't rich so this would be a huge strain for them.


Reason enough to take Michigan. It is an excellent school and a full $100K cheaper.


Agreed, I would probably say Chicago/Columbia if he said his family is rich and this is pay as you go sort of repayment that wouldn't affect them. If this is a hardship for anyone involved the difference is not worth it.


Thanks guys!! And yes it's a strain but they want me to go to Columbia even if it means paying more to be Ivy League educated (sorry parents for not being smart enough for a full ride). I love Chicago/Columbia but its just so. much. money. But I should be able to make enough in 3-4 years of big law to pay off a 150K 0% interest loan?


Eh, 3-4 years at zero interest is possible but still going to be tough at the beginning. I would say 5 years is probably doable without having a hard life. You will want to max out your 401k, put some in savings, etc.

I haven't done it yet, but I heard that the golden handcuffs really suck a lot of income from people. You will be spending money at expensive restaurants, bars, clothes (all to fit in with biglaw coworkers). You will want to live in an expensive part of Manhattan (if NY) because commuting after that many hours is hell.

Npret
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby Npret » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:23 pm

jasmineTT wrote:
jjcorvino wrote:
LoganCouture wrote:
jasmineTT wrote:Family loves Columbia (Asians are obsessed with Ivy Leagues) but we aren't rich so this would be a huge strain for them.


Reason enough to take Michigan. It is an excellent school and a full $100K cheaper.


Agreed, I would probably say Chicago/Columbia if he said his family is rich and this is pay as you go sort of repayment that wouldn't affect them. If this is a hardship for anyone involved the difference is not worth it.


Thanks guys!! And yes it's a strain but they want me to go to Columbia even if it means paying more to be Ivy League educated (sorry parents for not being smart enough for a full ride). I love Chicago/Columbia but its just so. much. money. But I should be able to make enough in 3-4 years of big law to pay off a 150K 0% interest loan?

Why would you borrow more even if from your parents? Will they just give you the difference between Michigan and Columbia?
It sounds like you are going to Columbia in any case.

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lymenheimer
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby lymenheimer » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:29 pm

armc808 wrote: starting biglaw salaries out of Chicago hover at $180k not including bonuses

All market biglaw pays 180k you dildo. You can get it out of any T14. Its not a function of your school its a function of the market you choose.

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trebekismyhero
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby trebekismyhero » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:33 pm

lymenheimer wrote:
armc808 wrote: starting biglaw salaries out of Chicago hover at $180k not including bonuses

All market biglaw pays 180k you dildo. You can get it out of any T14. Its not a function of your school its a function of the market you choose.


Yeah, obviously a 0L that doesn't know how this works. OP, seriously go to Michigan and save the money

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armc808
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby armc808 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:45 pm

lymenheimer wrote:
armc808 wrote: starting biglaw salaries out of Chicago hover at $180k not including bonuses

All market biglaw pays 180k you dildo. You can get it out of any T14. Its not a function of your school its a function of the market you choose.

...and your point is? Didn't say OP couldn't get that from Mich; I said OP would certainly have the means to pay back their loans should they take them out to go to Chicago/Columbia. Money is obviously an important factor, but it sounds like an utterly dumb decision to invest six figures and 3 years of your life in a place you'd be absolutely miserable in just because it's "cheaper."

Npret
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby Npret » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:00 pm

armc808 wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:
armc808 wrote: starting biglaw salaries out of Chicago hover at $180k not including bonuses

All market biglaw pays 180k you dildo. You can get it out of any T14. Its not a function of your school its a function of the market you choose.

...and your point is? Didn't say OP couldn't get that from Mich; I said OP would certainly have the means to pay back their loans should they take them out to go to Chicago/Columbia. Money is obviously an important factor, but it sounds like an utterly dumb decision to invest six figures and 3 years of your life in a place you'd be absolutely miserable in just because it's "cheaper."

Maybe I misunderstood by skimming. Isn't the difference $100,000?

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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby Anon.y.mousse. » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:01 pm

armc808 wrote: ... but it sounds like an utterly dumb decision to invest six figures and 3 years of your life in a place you'd be absolutely miserable in just because it's "cheaper."


a) don't get the scare quotes around "cheaper." 100k is a lot of money when you're asking your family to front that money (especially when they're not extraordinarily wealthy).

b) you don't invest six figures and 3 years in a place, you invest it in a degree that is a necessary tool to practicing law. a means to an end. and while there are differences in outcomes on the margins between the three schools, the wisdom of the actual practicing attorneys and current law students here and elsewhere is that those differences aren't worth 100k.

c) nobody is telling OP to be miserable - being iffy about a place and knowing for sure you'd hate it are two very different things. aa isn't as glamarous as nyc or chicago, for sure, but OP could potentially like it after going in with an open mind.

Npret
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby Npret » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:09 pm

OP could easily be more miserable in biglaw with an extra $100,000 to repay than they would be attending Michigan for three years to save $100,000.

cavalier1138
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:35 pm

armc808 wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:
armc808 wrote: starting biglaw salaries out of Chicago hover at $180k not including bonuses

All market biglaw pays 180k you dildo. You can get it out of any T14. Its not a function of your school its a function of the market you choose.

...and your point is? Didn't say OP couldn't get that from Mich; I said OP would certainly have the means to pay back their loans should they take them out to go to Chicago/Columbia. Money is obviously an important factor, but it sounds like an utterly dumb decision to invest six figures and 3 years of your life in a place you'd be absolutely miserable in just because it's "cheaper."


This is absurd. "Don't make an investment with a higher return just because it's a better investment." That's literally what you're saying, and it's fucking ridiculous.

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UVA2B
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby UVA2B » Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:12 pm

What reasonable parent becomes so obsessed with an arbitrary distinction as being an Ivy League that they'd try to compel their child to take on an additional $100k of debt? That's patently absurd.

OP, you'd be better off taking out traditional loans and going to Michigan than getting interest free loans from your parents. It's sound investing, because you'd still be saving a ton of money to end up with the same outcome. Maybe it'll rankle your parents a bit, but you know what? They aren't the ones living with the debt, and you're deciding to be an adult and make adult decisions. This is a great opportunity to show your parents that they are being silly and just tell them you'd rather take out regular student loans because Michigan is the smarter investment in your future. Maybe then they'll treat you like an adult, because you're acting like one and making financially responsible decisions.

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Rigo
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby Rigo » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:06 pm

armc808 wrote:I think Chicago will put you in the best position of the three schools for what you want to do, but you will have to decide if you're okay with taking out the loans for it. Chicago's LRAP is quite generous and will be able to cover your loan payments while you clerk, and starting biglaw salaries out of Chicago hover at $180k not including bonuses; in short, you will have the means to pay back your loans, but it's still a significant investment.

If you're not going onto qualifying employment we shouldn't really be talking about LRAP. If LRAP is a consideration, that's even more reason to do Columbia.

I agree that Michigan is the best option here though.

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existentialcrisis
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Re: 1 week left and still have no idea where to go (CLS ($) vs Chi ($) vs Mich ($$))

Postby existentialcrisis » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:18 pm

Definitely Michigan.




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