NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

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NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Northwestern
10
23%
Cornell
18
41%
Michigan
16
36%
 
Total votes: 44

lawish2020
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:23 pm

NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby lawish2020 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:04 pm

I am still waiting on fin aid info from NYU but at the moment have narrowed it down to three schools. I am Canadian. Have an engineering degree, in an EE related field, and am patent bar eligible, at least according to the requirements. Interested in taking patent bar and possibly going into patent prosecution. No ties to Chicago, aside from a couple relatives who live there. Don't really have preferences regarding the market I end up in. I might be interested in coming back to Canada after working in the US for a while, depends on my personal/professional situation. Interested in big law but not against going into a boutique IP firm or other options. Do not have a car and will rely on public transit.

COA:
NU: 149K
Michigan: 141K
Cornell: 135K

I visited all the above schools. They were all pretty cool.

I like that NU is in a city and that I have relatives, two people, there. I like that it seems easier to network with Chicago firms there. Kinda apprehensive about not having Chicago ties. It is also more expensive. It has slightly higher unemployment numbers as well, though it seems marginal. Most of the people here seemed slightly more professional, not sure if that is a common vibe? Liked that it's close to the water and have public transit that will go to a bunch of cool places. Chicago also seems cheaper than NY if I were to work there in the future.

Michigan had a really nice looking campus. It seems to have a bigger focus on academia than the other two schools. Has somewhat more "prestige", which I know isn't that big a deal between these schools. It seems to have slightly more intellectual property offerings than Northwestern and definitely more than Cornell. People seemed cool and really hyped about the school. Also seems more PI focused. Ann Arbor seems nice, seems to have a nice selection of stuff to do for a small city. Decent buses for a small city as well. Not really a football fan, or college sports fan in general. I'm fairly neutral to it. Kinda worried about the school not having a local market.

Cornell people seemed the most chill? Campus looks nice. Seems to have a ton of nature stuff to do. Not really a nature person though. I like how good it's employment numbers are especially in NY. The public transit didn't seem that great. Kinda isolated? Not a lot of IP people there, maybe makes me more competitive to employers? Doesn't have the best IP offerings, though the Roosevelt island tech law program seems cool. No IP or tech related journals. Might be more recognizable in Canada?
Last edited by lawish2020 on Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

cheaptilts
Posts: 405
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:29 pm

Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby cheaptilts » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:08 pm

I don't think Michigan has anymore prestige in Chicago than NU or NY than Cornell, so your prestige point is limited. NU's employment numbers are also on par with Cornell and Michigan's so I wouldn't place too much stock in that.

I'd take Cornell since it's cheapest and it will get you NY biglaw the easiest, probably (you'd have a hard time getting Chi biglaw without ties/being Canadian), while leaving other markets still open to you. However, I think if my nuclear family lived in Chicago/very close relatives/SO lived in Chicago, it may be worth the $14k premium for the emotional support. I don't know; that's up to you. I don't see how Michigan would make sense here at all.

lawish2020
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Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:23 pm

Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby lawish2020 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:19 pm

cheaptilts wrote:I don't think Michigan has anymore prestige in Chicago than NU or NY than Cornell, so your prestige point is limited. NU's employment numbers are also on par with Cornell and Michigan's so I wouldn't place too much stock in that.

I'd take Cornell since it's cheapest and it will get you NY biglaw the easiest, probably (you'd have a hard time getting Chi biglaw without ties/being Canadian), while leaving other markets still open to you. However, I think if my nuclear family lived in Chicago/very close relatives/SO lived in Chicago, it may be worth the $14k premium for the emotional support. I don't know; that's up to you. I don't see how Michigan would make sense here at all.


How big of a tie is a cousin and uncle living in Chicago? Though they haven't been living there long 4+ years. I was considering Michigan, since they seem to have the strongest IP program of the three. Also Ann Arbor seemed a better fit city-wise than Ithaca, which was kinda in the middle of nowhere.

baseballfan660
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:46 pm

Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby baseballfan660 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:58 am

lawish2020 wrote:I am still waiting on fin aid info from NYU but at the moment have narrowed it down to three schools. I am Canadian. Have an engineering degree, in an EE related field, and am patent bar eligible, at least according to the requirements. Interested in taking patent bar and possibly going into patent prosecution. No ties to Chicago, aside from a couple relatives who live there. Don't really have preferences regarding the market I end up in. I might be interested in coming back to Canada after working in the US for a while, depends on my personal/professional situation. Interested in big law but not against going into a boutique IP firm or other options. Do not have a car and will rely on public transit.

COA:
NU: 149K
Michigan: 141K
Cornell: 135K

I visited all the above schools. They were all pretty cool.

I like that NU is in a city and that I have relatives, two people, there. I like that it seems easier to network with Chicago firms there. Kinda apprehensive about not having Chicago ties. It is also more expensive. It has slightly higher unemployment numbers as well, though it seems marginal. Most of the people here seemed slightly more professional, not sure if that is a common vibe? Liked that it's close to the water and have public transit that will go to a bunch of cool places. Chicago also seems cheaper than NY if I were to work there in the future.

Michigan had a really nice looking campus. It seems to have a bigger focus on academia than the other two schools. Has somewhat more "prestige", which I know isn't that big a deal between these schools. It seems to have slightly more intellectual property offerings than Northwestern and definitely more than Cornell. People seemed cool and really hyped about the school. Also seems more PI focused. Ann Arbor seems nice, seems to have a nice selection of stuff to do for a small city. Decent buses for a small city as well. Not really a football fan, or college sports fan in general. I'm fairly neutral to it. Kinda worried about the school not having a local market.

With such a small difference is COA, choose where you would be happiest, if you want Chicago Biglaw Northwestern will give you a better shot, you will have a great chance at NY from either.

Cornell people seemed the most chill? Campus looks nice. Seems to have a ton of nature stuff to do. Not really a nature person though. I like how good it's employment numbers are especially in NY. The public transit didn't seem that great. Kinda isolated? Not a lot of IP people there, maybe makes me more competitive to employers? Doesn't have the best IP offerings, though the Roosevelt island tech law program seems cool. No IP or tech related journals. Might be more recognizable in Canada?

Malarkey
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:26 am

Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby Malarkey » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:12 am

What are your GPA and LSAT numbers?

lawish2020
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:23 pm

Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby lawish2020 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:58 am

Malarkey wrote:What are your GPA and LSAT numbers?


GPA is 3.9 ish and LSAT is 168, though I've taken it twice and 168 was my average score for a while.

LeNut
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Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby LeNut » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:06 am

OP have you looked into NU's entrepreneurship clinic? You'll work directly with inventors/startups and there's a ton of trademark work if you're interested.

lawish2020
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Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:23 pm

Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby lawish2020 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:10 am

LeNut wrote:OP have you looked into NU's entrepreneurship clinic? You'll work directly with inventors/startups and there's a ton of trademark work if you're interested.


Yeah, I've looked it up. Michigan has one as well. Kinda disappointing Cornell has so little in terms of those offerings, though it is cheaper.

Malarkey
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:26 am

Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby Malarkey » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:22 am

lawish2020 wrote:
Malarkey wrote:What are your GPA and LSAT numbers?


GPA is 3.9 ish and LSAT is 168, though I've taken it twice and 168 was my average score for a while.


Anything from Berkeley? I've heard they're big on IP. But if the COA is higher than these schools, it probably isn't worth it.

0L disclaimer, but I'd consider retaking. That's a pretty solid GPA and a couple more points on the LSAT could really boost your scholarships. That being said, the schools/scholarships you're deciding between in this thread are all fine outcomes, although the gap in COA between NU and Cornell seems a little steep to me. I'd choose Cornell here because of employment stats and cost, but depending on your reasoning, it wouldn't be wrong to choose another school.

lawish2020
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:23 pm

Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby lawish2020 » Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:41 am

Malarkey wrote:
lawish2020 wrote:
Malarkey wrote:What are your GPA and LSAT numbers?


GPA is 3.9 ish and LSAT is 168, though I've taken it twice and 168 was my average score for a while.


Anything from Berkeley? I've heard they're big on IP. But if the COA is higher than these schools, it probably isn't worth it.

0L disclaimer, but I'd consider retaking. That's a pretty solid GPA and a couple more points on the LSAT could really boost your scholarships. That being said, the schools/scholarships you're deciding between in this thread are all fine outcomes, although the gap in COA between NU and Cornell seems a little steep to me. I'd choose Cornell here because of employment stats and cost, but depending on your reasoning, it wouldn't be wrong to choose another school.


Yeah Berkeley had the best IP program but it was more expensive. I've been flipping between the schools just because they are so close to each other, value-wise, and because Cornell's lack of IP stuff. Also my lack of Chicago ties. Michigan seems cool, though I am kinda worried because of its lack of ties to any specific market, though people there says it's strength which I somewhat doubt. Their employment numbers are getting stronger though.

Malarkey
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:26 am

Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby Malarkey » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:12 pm

lawish2020 wrote:
Malarkey wrote:
lawish2020 wrote:
Malarkey wrote:What are your GPA and LSAT numbers?


GPA is 3.9 ish and LSAT is 168, though I've taken it twice and 168 was my average score for a while.


Anything from Berkeley? I've heard they're big on IP. But if the COA is higher than these schools, it probably isn't worth it.

0L disclaimer, but I'd consider retaking. That's a pretty solid GPA and a couple more points on the LSAT could really boost your scholarships. That being said, the schools/scholarships you're deciding between in this thread are all fine outcomes, although the gap in COA between NU and Cornell seems a little steep to me. I'd choose Cornell here because of employment stats and cost, but depending on your reasoning, it wouldn't be wrong to choose another school.


Yeah Berkeley had the best IP program but it was more expensive. I've been flipping between the schools just because they are so close to each other, value-wise, and because Cornell's lack of IP stuff. Also my lack of Chicago ties. Michigan seems cool, though I am kinda worried because of its lack of ties to any specific market, though people there says it's strength which I somewhat doubt. Their employment numbers are getting stronger though.


Cornell did just open up that new tech campus, but it's brand new, so it's hard to determine its value. I imagine they'd be trying pretty hard to please IP people like you though, in order to be sure their new campus makes a good impression.

Employment is my biggest concern (and I believe it should be everyone's). NU and Michigan are more expensive for you, and they have lower employment scores and higher under-employment scores than Cornell, according to LST. The differences are slight, but in my opinion they are significant enough.

lawish2020
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:23 pm

Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby lawish2020 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:03 am

Malarkey wrote:
lawish2020 wrote:
Malarkey wrote:
lawish2020 wrote:
Malarkey wrote:What are your GPA and LSAT numbers?


GPA is 3.9 ish and LSAT is 168, though I've taken it twice and 168 was my average score for a while.


Anything from Berkeley? I've heard they're big on IP. But if the COA is higher than these schools, it probably isn't worth it.

0L disclaimer, but I'd consider retaking. That's a pretty solid GPA and a couple more points on the LSAT could really boost your scholarships. That being said, the schools/scholarships you're deciding between in this thread are all fine outcomes, although the gap in COA between NU and Cornell seems a little steep to me. I'd choose Cornell here because of employment stats and cost, but depending on your reasoning, it wouldn't be wrong to choose another school.


Yeah Berkeley had the best IP program but it was more expensive. I've been flipping between the schools just because they are so close to each other, value-wise, and because Cornell's lack of IP stuff. Also my lack of Chicago ties. Michigan seems cool, though I am kinda worried because of its lack of ties to any specific market, though people there says it's strength which I somewhat doubt. Their employment numbers are getting stronger though.


Cornell did just open up that new tech campus, but it's brand new, so it's hard to determine its value. I imagine they'd be trying pretty hard to please IP people like you though, in order to be sure their new campus makes a good impression.

Employment is my biggest concern (and I believe it should be everyone's). NU and Michigan are more expensive for you, and they have lower employment scores and higher under-employment scores than Cornell, according to LST. The differences are slight, but in my opinion they are significant enough.


Employment is definitely something that I am looking at closely. Cornell has always had really good employment numbers, hence why it is in my three options. I am just slightly turned off by its isolated location, and lack of IP offerings. Ithaca is not what I'm used to. All the schools have their pros and cons and I am having a hard time splitting them.

Malarkey
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:26 am

Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby Malarkey » Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:23 am

lawish2020 wrote:
Malarkey wrote:
lawish2020 wrote:
Malarkey wrote:
lawish2020 wrote:
Malarkey wrote:What are your GPA and LSAT numbers?


GPA is 3.9 ish and LSAT is 168, though I've taken it twice and 168 was my average score for a while.


Anything from Berkeley? I've heard they're big on IP. But if the COA is higher than these schools, it probably isn't worth it.

0L disclaimer, but I'd consider retaking. That's a pretty solid GPA and a couple more points on the LSAT could really boost your scholarships. That being said, the schools/scholarships you're deciding between in this thread are all fine outcomes, although the gap in COA between NU and Cornell seems a little steep to me. I'd choose Cornell here because of employment stats and cost, but depending on your reasoning, it wouldn't be wrong to choose another school.


Yeah Berkeley had the best IP program but it was more expensive. I've been flipping between the schools just because they are so close to each other, value-wise, and because Cornell's lack of IP stuff. Also my lack of Chicago ties. Michigan seems cool, though I am kinda worried because of its lack of ties to any specific market, though people there says it's strength which I somewhat doubt. Their employment numbers are getting stronger though.


Cornell did just open up that new tech campus, but it's brand new, so it's hard to determine its value. I imagine they'd be trying pretty hard to please IP people like you though, in order to be sure their new campus makes a good impression.

Employment is my biggest concern (and I believe it should be everyone's). NU and Michigan are more expensive for you, and they have lower employment scores and higher under-employment scores than Cornell, according to LST. The differences are slight, but in my opinion they are significant enough.


Employment is definitely something that I am looking at closely. Cornell has always had really good employment numbers, hence why it is in my three options. I am just slightly turned off by its isolated location, and lack of IP offerings. Ithaca is not what I'm used to. All the schools have their pros and cons and I am having a hard time splitting them.


Nearly everyone dislikes Cornell's location. I would argue that your location in law school is relatively unimportant, seeing as you'll be focused heavily on your studies anyways. But that's just me.

I can't really comment on IP offerings at any school, or how important those offeringns are for future employment. I would assume Cornell's new tech campus would open up some new opportunities, but I'm not sure, and I don't want to give you false information. You might want to ask about IP at Cornell in the "Cornell 1L taking questions" thread. If their answers worry you, then maybe choose one of the other two schools.

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mwells56
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Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby mwells56 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:06 am

lawish2020 wrote:I am still waiting on fin aid info from NYU but at the moment have narrowed it down to three schools. I am Canadian. Have an engineering degree, in an EE related field, and am patent bar eligible, at least according to the requirements. Interested in taking patent bar and possibly going into patent prosecution. No ties to Chicago, aside from a couple relatives who live there. Don't really have preferences regarding the market I end up in. I might be interested in coming back to Canada after working in the US for a while, depends on my personal/professional situation. Interested in big law but not against going into a boutique IP firm or other options. Do not have a car and will rely on public transit.

COA:
NU: 149K
Michigan: 141K
Cornell: 135K

I visited all the above schools. They were all pretty cool.

I like that NU is in a city and that I have relatives, two people, there. I like that it seems easier to network with Chicago firms there. Kinda apprehensive about not having Chicago ties. It is also more expensive. It has slightly higher unemployment numbers as well, though it seems marginal. Most of the people here seemed slightly more professional, not sure if that is a common vibe? Liked that it's close to the water and have public transit that will go to a bunch of cool places. Chicago also seems cheaper than NY if I were to work there in the future.

Michigan had a really nice looking campus. It seems to have a bigger focus on academia than the other two schools. Has somewhat more "prestige", which I know isn't that big a deal between these schools. It seems to have slightly more intellectual property offerings than Northwestern and definitely more than Cornell. People seemed cool and really hyped about the school. Also seems more PI focused. Ann Arbor seems nice, seems to have a nice selection of stuff to do for a small city. Decent buses for a small city as well. Not really a football fan, or college sports fan in general. I'm fairly neutral to it. Kinda worried about the school not having a local market.

Cornell people seemed the most chill? Campus looks nice. Seems to have a ton of nature stuff to do. Not really a nature person though. I like how good it's employment numbers are especially in NY. The public transit didn't seem that great. Kinda isolated? Not a lot of IP people there, maybe makes me more competitive to employers? Doesn't have the best IP offerings, though the Roosevelt island tech law program seems cool. No IP or tech related journals. Might be more recognizable in Canada?


I'm an undergrad at Michigan right now. To the bolded, maybe it's different for grad students but I can tell you that once most people get to Ann Arbor they drink the UM Kool-Aid and start bleeding Maize and Blue immediately. Ann Arbor's a great town, there's a ton to do here for both undergrads and grad students. I was not a football or college sports fan at all before coming here and now that's all I do/think about. I'm personally not from the state of Michigan, but I've discovered that a lot of kids from this area have ties to Chicago.

I know this doesn't say much about the law school itself, but I thought it could be useful.

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Lavitz
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Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby Lavitz » Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:37 am

Small sample size, but everyone I know at Cornell who was patent-bar eligible and wanted an IP job in biglaw got an IP job in biglaw. But, even though I thought Ithaca was fine, I don't think it would be crazy if you're a city person and want to pay $14K more to be in Chicago instead of Ithaca for three years.

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Rigo
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Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby Rigo » Mon Apr 24, 2017 11:18 am

I'd just go with where you want to spend 3 years since Ithaca and Chicago are very different environments. If you really don't care/can't decide, follow the money and go Cornell.

If you really want, tell Northwestern you'll withdraw and commit for only $5k/yr more and see if they give it to you.

lawish2020
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Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby lawish2020 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:23 pm

Rigo wrote:I'd just go with where you want to spend 3 years since Ithaca and Chicago are very different environments. If you really don't care/can't decide, follow the money and go Cornell.

If you really want, tell Northwestern you'll withdraw and commit for only $5k/yr more and see if they give it to you.


Yeah I gotta make a decision soon, since my first deadline is coming up. I've tried to get scholarship raised from both Michigan and NU but they didn't raise it. I've heard that Chicago has a surprisingly high amount of patent work relative to it's size so that is why I'm thinking it would be useful to go to NU. The additional cost and lack of ties make me somewhat hesitant though. NY has a higher absolute number of IP jobs though, so I'm not sure if my preoccupation with Chicago is useful. Since NY and CA, possibly, places less importance on ties. Are ties as big a deal as people make it out to be? Will being patent eligible dampen that disadvantage to a certain extent?

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trebekismyhero
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Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby trebekismyhero » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:51 pm

lawish2020 wrote:
Rigo wrote:I'd just go with where you want to spend 3 years since Ithaca and Chicago are very different environments. If you really don't care/can't decide, follow the money and go Cornell.

If you really want, tell Northwestern you'll withdraw and commit for only $5k/yr more and see if they give it to you.


Yeah I gotta make a decision soon, since my first deadline is coming up. I've tried to get scholarship raised from both Michigan and NU but they didn't raise it. I've heard that Chicago has a surprisingly high amount of patent work relative to it's size so that is why I'm thinking it would be useful to go to NU. The additional cost and lack of ties make me somewhat hesitant though. NY has a higher absolute number of IP jobs though, so I'm not sure if my preoccupation with Chicago is useful. Since NY and CA, possibly, places less importance on ties. Are ties as big a deal as people make it out to be? Will being patent eligible dampen that disadvantage to a certain extent?


If you go to NU that's enough ties for Chicago so that is not an issue.

gilbilya
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Re: NU($$) v Michigan($$) v Cornell($$$)

Postby gilbilya » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:19 am

I chose Michigan over NU with similar COA. I am a city person and Chicago is def my favorite city in the states, so it took me a while to decide. But I talked to a lot of people (academia, practicing lawyers, judicial clerks, etc.) and they all held Michigan in higher regard. A law professor simply said "NU is a good law school, but Michigan is a great law school." Having gone to alumni receptions of both schools the impression I had was that Michigan had a stronger representation in California, which I think should be an ideal market for patent lawyers. That said, all of the statements above are grounded in California, and it is still a relatively small pool so they can't in no way generalize popular perception. Either way, all three are great options.

plz dont quote




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