cavalier1138 wrote:Ferrisjso wrote:So what you're saying is that if they google that question, there's one only one right answer to it(mylsn) and if they don't find that answer and/or come to the same conclusion you would from that, they're idiots? Why would the average 0L disregard everything they've heard both from school materials and elsewhere because of what they saw on one website? Do you really expect 0L's to go on mylsn look up their schools info and be like "oh my god, look at how horrible those numbers, are, I should give up on this despite all the people around me telling me this is a great idea/information that contradicts this? I'm sorry that is not a reasonable expectation of the average 0L, nm one's who are going to TTTT's(who have probably little exposure to the norms of this process).
Here's a list of reasons why people go to TTT's and TTTT's
1)good local reputation that outweighs whatever they read online
2)students can go to better schools but are getting the best deals at TTTT's
3)students want to become a lawyer and will attend the only program they can attend, god damm the consequence
4)want to be solo practitioners(ignoring how difficult this is in reality) and thus don't care about the employment stats
5)I think it's fair to say it's more likely for 0L's to access the fake employment stats and propaganda materials a school sends them in the mail than find the ABA 509's/Employment reports. Also ABA employment reports and 509's just give raw numbers not percentages which makes it more difficult for students to put it in context(I just put it in Excel but this takes time).
6)many people will get nothing but positive feedback from their family, friends and community and simply don't know the people qualified to give them advice(and some of these people give advice that would make TLS cringe anyway).
7)if a student went into alot of UG debt and doesn't believe they will ever pay this off anyway they might doubledown with another degree. Some just don't understand what debt is.
you'd be suprised how many people have no idea how interest works. Paying back 200k in debt over time that doesn't grow is a very different thing than paying 200k in debt with 6% interest and if interest worked the way they thought it did, a lot of insane decisions would actually make sense somewhat.
I'm just quoting this for posterity, since the main debate has moved far afield.
That said, of course people who fall for cons are at least partly responsible. That doesn't mean the conman isn't a terrible person, and it doesn't mean that certain groups of people aren't disadvantaged. But literally read every one of Ferris's posts, and you see someone who was exposed to negative statistics about his school choices over and over and over and over and over again. Now, he's posting long missives about why other students might ignore objective information in order to make mind-blowingly stupid decisions, without realizing that he's literally talking about himself. At a certain point, I just can't feel that much sympathy for someone who willfully ignores reality in order to justify their own choices.
The second half of number 5 is my favorite. "Oh no! The raw numbers don't show percentages. You HAVE to put it in a spreadsheet to figure out the percentages". Because you can't look at 160 total students, see that 40 have jobs, and recognize that that's a poor figure somewhere less than 50%. Just proves it's still coming from the guy who doesnt know how statistics and math work...