Whittier Shutting Down

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cougs1112

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby cougs1112 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:01 pm

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/whittier/ABA/

If, after looking at this (which one can find very easily), one decides to take out 200k in loans, they are in fact a fucking dumbass and deserve 0 sympathy.

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Ferrisjso

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Ferrisjso » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:02 pm

shadowfax wrote:
lawman84 wrote:
grades?? wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:^There's a sterling example of someone being repeatedly exposed to information and willfully ignoring it.


Yeah. Ferris is literally making up reasons for why QU employment rate is awful. He has been warned over and over and still thinks he will beat the god awful odds. This is literally the perfect example of what you see in that Whittier video. This isn't about asymmetrical information (or access to said information), this is about being irrational and delusional.


Ferris made some reasonable points, and his decision was reasonable enough. He's going to relatively bad law school, but he's got a full scholarship (or a near full one). If it doesn't work out for him, he isn't fucked for life. He wants to take the risk knowing the employment numbers. That's his choice.

cougs1112 wrote:I've personally come across a few people with LSAT's in the 150's or below who refuse to listen to anyone telling them to study and retake. My guess is the majority of people going to these TTTT's are of the same mindset.

My parents were immigrants, I have no lawyers in my family, and I only knew one lawyer (a TTT grad) before starting school. None of this stopped me from going on the internet and looking up LSAT info/law school rankings/bar passage rates/employment outcomes. All the information is out there. For some reason too many people in our generation want to blame others for their own mistakes. If someone can't spend 10 minutes on the internet doing some research before taking out 200k in loans, they deserve to be in this position.


I hate this argument. I always see it. "I didn't fall for it, so why should we pity anyone who did?" The worst are the people who claim that the children of those in poverty aren't at a disadvantage because "I was poor growing up, and I still succeeded."

There are a number of posters that adequately explain why the students are far less culpable than the schools in this scenario. Those people most definitely don't "deserve" to be in this position.(what a shitty thing to say)


Excellent post. TLS has more than it's fair share of elite wannabes. They show equal disdain for those who go the less well regarded schools as those who go to the best. They are clever little snipers who spend a whole lot of time trying to buy a nickel for 4 cents thinking somehow that makes them accomplished. If what happened to the students at Whittier doesn't at least make you pause to consider their plight then you have no heart.


Agreed, these people must be devastated right now and while I have a hard time feeling bad for those who are going to get 100-200k+ in debt forgiven(like even if they got the degree and a decent job they'd probably be worse off) what about the kids who were going for free/close to free and put in the time and got no degree and will always be telling the story of "you see I almost was a lawyer and then the school I was going to closed"? Wouldn't that be an embarrassing story to carry around for the rest of your life? What about the top 10%,top 20% of students who were actually going to secure good legal employment if the school hadn't closed?

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Ferrisjso

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Ferrisjso » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:08 pm

cougs1112 wrote:https://www.lstreports.com/schools/whittier/ABA/

If, after looking at this (which one can find very easily), one decides to take out 200k in loans, they are in fact a fucking dumbass and deserve 0 sympathy.


Most people in TTTT's are living in an entirely different world from you. They are in environments from around the country where many of their friends didn't graduate HS nm college and the thought of becoming a lawyer would be a huge deal for their family's, self confidence and even entire communities.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Npret » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:08 pm

The problem is that people still trust law schools to not be lying to them. They haven't learned that law schools are inherently dishonest in their marketing. It's sickening really.

https://www.law.whittier.edu

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presidentspivey

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby presidentspivey » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:11 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
cougs1112 wrote:https://www.lstreports.com/schools/whittier/ABA/

If, after looking at this (which one can find very easily), one decides to take out 200k in loans, they are in fact a fucking dumbass and deserve 0 sympathy.


Most people in TTTT's are living in an entirely different world from you. They are in environments from around the country where many of their friends didn't graduate HS nm college and the thought of becoming a lawyer would be a huge deal for their family's, self confidence and even entire communities.

Don't go into debt for your friends, family or your community. Do it because it gives you good employment outcomes at a reasonable price.

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OneHandedEconomist

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby OneHandedEconomist » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:14 pm

"Your undergraduate academic performance (GPA) and your Law School Admissions Test (LSAT) scores are strongly considered in evaluating your application. However, there are no “magic numbers” that guarantee admission."

Well darn, guess I have to work on my softs.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby shadowfax » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:50 pm

Desert Fox wrote:He's pretty stupid, so Quinpack (where is this school, I've never heard of it) is probably a pretty good option


Ferris don't let people here kid you that they haven't heard of the big Q. It did pretty much the best polling in the Trump victory. And lawyers love politics. They had Florida and North Carolina as too close to call (but they did miss on Ohio and Penn so they are not perfect). And the Q has a hell of a hockey team. The Bobcats are unbeaten in their last 10 games against those Yale Bulldogs (I hear they have a law school too) since losing to them in the 2013 NCAA finals. Yale doesn't seem to mind being in the same league with the Q.

cougs1112

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby cougs1112 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:40 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
cougs1112 wrote:https://www.lstreports.com/schools/whittier/ABA/

If, after looking at this (which one can find very easily), one decides to take out 200k in loans, they are in fact a fucking dumbass and deserve 0 sympathy.


Most people in TTTT's are living in an entirely different world from you. They are in environments from around the country where many of their friends didn't graduate HS nm college and the thought of becoming a lawyer would be a huge deal for their family's, self confidence and even entire communities.


I'm not sure that's entirely correct to be honest. Is there anything to show that most people at T4's are coming from poor communities or are we just assuming that because they have significantly higher percentages of minority students?

Also, many foreign students in the US come from communities where the environment is far worse than those that poor Americans live in but they don't seem to make the same ill-informed decisions. Being poor is not an excuse for making highly irresponsible decisions. These are all people that have gone through 4 years of college.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby vcap180 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:46 pm

Just watched the announcement video. All I can say is wow.

How about the self-proclaimed 4L saying something along the lines of "I am sure this years employment stats will be significantly improved, since I know of a few 3Ls who have good jobs lined up". Proper LSAT preparation would have helped her understand the simple flaw in her reasoning. But hey, the LSAT is just some stupid, arbitrary test, right?

By the way: those board members are absolutely SAVAGE for: 1) telling them to email their concerns and 2) telling them they need to head out to their next meeting. Lol. What a DISASTER!!!

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby cougs1112 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:59 pm

vcap180 wrote:Just watched the announcement video. All I can say is wow.

How about the self-proclaimed 4L saying something along the lines of "I am sure this years employment stats will be significantly improved, since I know of a few 3Ls who have good jobs lined up". Proper LSAT preparation would have helped her understand the simple flaw in her reasoning. But hey, the LSAT is just some stupid, arbitrary test, right?

By the way: those board members are absolutely SAVAGE for: 1) telling them to email their concerns and 2) telling them they need to head out to their next meeting. Lol. What a DISASTER!!!


Not only is it stupid and arbitrary but it's also "racist"

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Aristogeiton1 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:30 am

To be honest, the positive reinforcement of "going to *any* law school," from adults absolutely everywhere, and them all "knowing someone successful that went to that school" is enough to make people overlook any research for the school they attend. There usually are a lot of successful lawyers from the 70s and 80s that went to that local law school, the entire Supreme Court for my state attended local (public) TTTs.

I'd support raising the barrier to law school closer to the height of Medical School (though that barrier tends to be one of income more than anything else), or at least to a minimum LSAT-GPA combination, and much tighter regulations for each of the law schools.

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KMart

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby KMart » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:04 am

good. most of these schools are scams anyway.

nyu2019maybeplease

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby nyu2019maybeplease » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:40 am

Scoffing at people who complain you scoff too much...checks out.


cavalier1138 wrote:
Hogwartsexpress wrote:
Pragmatic Gun wrote:Also, people on these forums most likely come from privileged backgrounds and/or have consumed the TLS mantra of "retake and apply to all the T13s." The biggest complaint about this forum from people who come to ask questions is that it is "too elitist." While a lot of these complainers need a reality check, their complaint is not without merit.


OMG finally somebody said it:!:


Yes, finally. No one has ever called people on these forums "elitist". That's entirely new and unexpected. I might die from shock.

Over half of this bullshit comes from people who post about their desire to be a multimillionaire partner at Cravath, so should they choose American or Drexel? If more people had the goal of working in a small firm or local government and had a full scholarship at a solid local school, there would be a lot fewer people recommending a retake.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:10 am

nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Scoffing at people who complain you scoff too much...checks out.


I'm pretty sure you just wanted to use the word "scoff" twice in a sentence. But cogent point there, champ.

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Jack_Kelly

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Jack_Kelly » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:55 am

Ferrisjso wrote:
cougs1112 wrote:https://www.lstreports.com/schools/whittier/ABA/

If, after looking at this (which one can find very easily), one decides to take out 200k in loans, they are in fact a fucking dumbass and deserve 0 sympathy.


Most people in TTTT's are living in an entirely different world from you. They are in environments from around the country where many of their friends didn't graduate HS nm college and the thought of becoming a lawyer would be a huge deal for their family's, self confidence and even entire communities.

This seems to be a point an astonishing number of people miss. These people have probably never heard of Law School Transparency. If I hadn't decided to lurk here a while, I would never have heard of Law School Transparency. They don't know there's a good reason not to take employment numbers at face value.

FWIW, I am probably attending a similar school ranking-wise to Cardozo, and I think if I had a full ride at a TTT and the other school was 100K+ (about twice what it will be for me), I might well have chosen the TTT (Though it does have to be said, those salary numbers are rough for CT).

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Mr. Blackacre

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Mr. Blackacre » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:02 pm

cougs1112 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
cougs1112 wrote:https://www.lstreports.com/schools/whittier/ABA/

If, after looking at this (which one can find very easily), one decides to take out 200k in loans, they are in fact a fucking dumbass and deserve 0 sympathy.


Most people in TTTT's are living in an entirely different world from you. They are in environments from around the country where many of their friends didn't graduate HS nm college and the thought of becoming a lawyer would be a huge deal for their family's, self confidence and even entire communities.


I'm not sure that's entirely correct to be honest. Is there anything to show that most people at T4's are coming from poor communities or are we just assuming that because they have significantly higher percentages of minority students?

Also, many foreign students in the US come from communities where the environment is far worse than those that poor Americans live in but they don't seem to make the same ill-informed decisions. Being poor is not an excuse for making highly irresponsible decisions. These are all people that have gone through 4 years of college.


I honestly didn't know Justice Thomas posted on TLS.

Are you one such foreign student? Or are you, as I suspect, an immigrant who doesn't actually come from a poor background and doesn't really know what they're talking about? It's easy to blame people for not making decisions they did not have the privilege to be able to make. And it has nothing to do with race; it has to do with wealth and the lack thereof. There are always success stories, whether with poor US students or poor foreign students. There are also a lot of people who aren't successful. Guess what? Those foreigners don't make it to America. They don't become immigrants. So you don't hear about them, and you just assume the ones you do see in the US are lazy or stupid.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby tinyvessels » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:29 pm

cougs1112 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
cougs1112 wrote:https://www.lstreports.com/schools/whittier/ABA/

If, after looking at this (which one can find very easily), one decides to take out 200k in loans, they are in fact a fucking dumbass and deserve 0 sympathy.


Most people in TTTT's are living in an entirely different world from you. They are in environments from around the country where many of their friends didn't graduate HS nm college and the thought of becoming a lawyer would be a huge deal for their family's, self confidence and even entire communities.


I'm not sure that's entirely correct to be honest. Is there anything to show that most people at T4's are coming from poor communities or are we just assuming that because they have significantly higher percentages of minority students?

Also, many foreign students in the US come from communities where the environment is far worse than those that poor Americans live in but they don't seem to make the same ill-informed decisions. Being poor is not an excuse for making highly irresponsible decisions. These are all people that have gone through 4 years of college.


The foreign students coming to the US to attend undergraduate institutions here are some of the wealthiest students on campus. Which is why they are able to attend these schools, because they come from families that can afford to send them abroad to be educated here and incur the all the costs that living in the US entails. My undergrad had a significant amount of foreign students, and them coming from wealthy, privileged backgrounds was always the case. Unless we are talking about refugee students, which is entirely a different scenario.

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Pomeranian

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Pomeranian » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:58 pm

According to Paul Campos, who has spoken about this issue for awhile, law schools especially vulnerable include Valparaiso University (63.3 percent bar pass rate in 2015), Thomas M. Cooley School of Law (51.9 percent), Thomas Jefferson School of Law (48.2 percent), University of La Verne (53.7 percent), and Appalachian School of Law (58.1 percent).

He also listed Florida Coastal School of Law (61.1 percent), Charlotte School of Law (46.3 percent), and Arizona Summit Law School (41.6 percent), all of which are operated by InfiLaw System, a for-profit entity owned by Sterling Partners.

cougs1112

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby cougs1112 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:47 pm

Jack_Kelly wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
cougs1112 wrote:https://www.lstreports.com/schools/whittier/ABA/

If, after looking at this (which one can find very easily), one decides to take out 200k in loans, they are in fact a fucking dumbass and deserve 0 sympathy.


Most people in TTTT's are living in an entirely different world from you. They are in environments from around the country where many of their friends didn't graduate HS nm college and the thought of becoming a lawyer would be a huge deal for their family's, self confidence and even entire communities.

This seems to be a point an astonishing number of people miss. These people have probably never heard of Law School Transparency. If I hadn't decided to lurk here a while, I would never have heard of Law School Transparency. They don't know there's a good reason not to take employment numbers at face value.

FWIW, I am probably attending a similar school ranking-wise to Cardozo, and I think if I had a full ride at a TTT and the other school was 100K+ (about twice what it will be for me), I might well have chosen the TTT (Though it does have to be said, those salary numbers are rough for CT).


So you're suggesting poor people don't know how to use the internet?

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Pragmatic Gun

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:26 pm

Why do so many Americans assume that most of the world lives in huts and lives on less than a dollar a day?

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Mr. Blackacre

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Mr. Blackacre » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:57 pm

Man the stupidity in this thread is pretty astounding. Is it impossible to imagine that despite not living in a hut on $1 a day, despite knowing how to use the internet, a lot of people because of their circumstances won't be able to put nearly as much research into attending law school? People who are the first in their family to go to college and don't necessarily have the support behind them, people who have to juggle school/work/personal shit, people who aren't used - expecting - to challenge the system and higher ed to maximize their return, etc. Does that make them stupid, or does that make them uninformed? And are we really going to blame them, and laugh at them, when they graduate with no job or when their school closes?

More generally, scams affect all types of people, rich or poor, dumb and smart. Madoff took in a lot of supposedly smart, rich, successful people in his pyramid scheme. Are they all idiots? There were plenty of signs if you knew where to look. I just hope for your sake, cougs1112, that you never get caught in a scam.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby TakeItToTrial » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:12 pm

Mr. Blackacre wrote:Man the stupidity in this thread is pretty astounding. Is it impossible to imagine that despite not living in a hut on $1 a day, despite knowing how to use the internet, a lot of people because of their circumstances won't be able to put nearly as much research into attending law school? People who are the first in their family to go to college and don't necessarily have the support behind them, people who have to juggle school/work/personal shit, people who aren't used - expecting - to challenge the system and higher ed to maximize their return, etc. Does that make them stupid, or does that make them uninformed? And are we really going to blame them, and laugh at them, when they graduate with no job or when their school closes?

More generally, scams affect all types of people, rich or poor, dumb and smart. Madoff took in a lot of supposedly smart, rich, successful people in his pyramid scheme. Are they all idiots? There were plenty of signs if you knew where to look. I just hope for your sake, cougs1112, that you never get caught in a scam.


Yeah, let's absolve everyone of all personal responsibility.

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Pragmatic Gun

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:21 pm

Something something structural inequality

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Mr. Blackacre

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Mr. Blackacre » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:22 pm

TakeItToTrial wrote:
Mr. Blackacre wrote:Man the stupidity in this thread is pretty astounding. Is it impossible to imagine that despite not living in a hut on $1 a day, despite knowing how to use the internet, a lot of people because of their circumstances won't be able to put nearly as much research into attending law school? People who are the first in their family to go to college and don't necessarily have the support behind them, people who have to juggle school/work/personal shit, people who aren't used - expecting - to challenge the system and higher ed to maximize their return, etc. Does that make them stupid, or does that make them uninformed? And are we really going to blame them, and laugh at them, when they graduate with no job or when their school closes?

More generally, scams affect all types of people, rich or poor, dumb and smart. Madoff took in a lot of supposedly smart, rich, successful people in his pyramid scheme. Are they all idiots? There were plenty of signs if you knew where to look. I just hope for your sake, cougs1112, that you never get caught in a scam.


Yeah, let's absolve everyone of all personal responsibility.


You must be doing great in law school. Cougs says if you went to Whittier, you deserve to be in this situation because you were too stupid to look up the law school scam. I say calling everyone who went there stupid doesn't make sense. And your reply is that I am somehow absolving every student of personal responsibility. It's the classic "if you disagree that X is always true, then you must be saying that X is always false." :roll:

Whatever, carry on self-congratulating I guess. Thank god you were so smart not to fall in the same trap as these lowly idiots.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby vcap180 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 5:42 pm

Mr. Blackacre wrote:Man the stupidity in this thread is pretty astounding. Is it impossible to imagine that despite not living in a hut on $1 a day, despite knowing how to use the internet, a lot of people because of their circumstances won't be able to put nearly as much research into attending law school? People who are the first in their family to go to college and don't necessarily have the support behind them, people who have to juggle school/work/personal shit, people who aren't used - expecting - to challenge the system and higher ed to maximize their return, etc. Does that make them stupid, or does that make them uninformed? And are we really going to blame them, and laugh at them, when they graduate with no job or when their school closes?

More generally, scams affect all types of people, rich or poor, dumb and smart. Madoff took in a lot of supposedly smart, rich, successful people in his pyramid scheme. Are they all idiots? There were plenty of signs if you knew where to look. I just hope for your sake, cougs1112, that you never get caught in a scam.




You act as if it would take more than a 10 minute Google search to realize that Whittier isn't worth a dime. You can literally type in "is Whittier law school good", or "is Whittier law worth it" or, "Whittier law employment" and you will learn within 10 minutes that you should not attend Whittier.

This is not esoteric knowledge. 10 minutes of googling is not too much to ask of someone before they make a 3 year, quarter million dollar commitment.



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