Whittier Shutting Down

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Ferrisjso

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Ferrisjso » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:27 pm

grades?? wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
star fox wrote:But there's a lot of cringeworthy shit I've heard from my classmates in just my three years at law school. People really think going to a good graduate educational program makes them innately better human beings.


TLS and law is very elitist.

But the big issue is that law schools are charging elite pricing. And the government is giving you elite amounts of cash to blow.

If law school cost 10k in tuition and the fed gov wouldn't give you 20k in living expense money a year, then I'd say go whatever TTT you can get into, as long as you want to be any sort of lawyer.

So part time students at CUNY? Go knock yourself out. But telling someone to fuck off when they ask if some random school is worth 200k isn't elitist at all.


If this is true why did I get ****** on for going to a TTT for COL?


because Quinnipiac is not any better than Whittier. Thats why


It's not closing anytime soon. Heck I guess even the InfiLaw people have that on them.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby star fox » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:46 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
star fox wrote:But there's a lot of cringeworthy shit I've heard from my classmates in just my three years at law school. People really think going to a good graduate educational program makes them innately better human beings.


TLS and law is very elitist.

But the big issue is that law schools are charging elite pricing. And the government is giving you elite amounts of cash to blow.

If law school cost 10k in tuition and the fed gov wouldn't give you 20k in living expense money a year, then I'd say go whatever TTT you can get into, as long as you want to be any sort of lawyer.

So part time students at CUNY? Go knock yourself out. But telling someone to fuck off when they ask if some random school is worth 200k isn't elitist at all.

Hey, if you're willing to accept the Johann plan and stare the government in the face and call their bluff that you don't actually believe they'll hand you a tax bill that's higher than your last 3 year's combined salary in 20 years, all the power to you.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby cougs1112 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:47 pm

I've personally come across a few people with LSAT's in the 150's or below who refuse to listen to anyone telling them to study and retake. My guess is the majority of people going to these TTTT's are of the same mindset.

My parents were immigrants, I have no lawyers in my family, and I only knew one lawyer (a TTT grad) before starting school. None of this stopped me from going on the internet and looking up LSAT info/law school rankings/bar passage rates/employment outcomes. All the information is out there. For some reason too many people in our generation want to blame others for their own mistakes. If someone can't spend 10 minutes on the internet doing some research before taking out 200k in loans, they deserve to be in this position.

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lymenheimer

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby lymenheimer » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:47 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:It's not closing anytime soon.


Ahh yes. Never heard that before.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby star fox » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:48 pm

grades?? wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
star fox wrote:But there's a lot of cringeworthy shit I've heard from my classmates in just my three years at law school. People really think going to a good graduate educational program makes them innately better human beings.


TLS and law is very elitist.

But the big issue is that law schools are charging elite pricing. And the government is giving you elite amounts of cash to blow.

If law school cost 10k in tuition and the fed gov wouldn't give you 20k in living expense money a year, then I'd say go whatever TTT you can get into, as long as you want to be any sort of lawyer.

So part time students at CUNY? Go knock yourself out. But telling someone to fuck off when they ask if some random school is worth 200k isn't elitist at all.


If this is true why did I get ****** on for going to a TTT for COL?


because Quinnipiac is not any better than Whittier. Thats why

Yes it is.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby grades?? » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:04 pm

star fox wrote:
grades?? wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
star fox wrote:But there's a lot of cringeworthy shit I've heard from my classmates in just my three years at law school. People really think going to a good graduate educational program makes them innately better human beings.


TLS and law is very elitist.

But the big issue is that law schools are charging elite pricing. And the government is giving you elite amounts of cash to blow.

If law school cost 10k in tuition and the fed gov wouldn't give you 20k in living expense money a year, then I'd say go whatever TTT you can get into, as long as you want to be any sort of lawyer.

So part time students at CUNY? Go knock yourself out. But telling someone to fuck off when they ask if some random school is worth 200k isn't elitist at all.


If this is true why did I get ****** on for going to a TTT for COL?


because Quinnipiac is not any better than Whittier. Thats why

Yes it is.


Both have under 50% employment rates and awful bar passage rates. Any school that gives you less than a coin flips chance of ever practicing is equally culpable to me. They are all doing a disservice to their students and to the profession. It may be subjective, but Quinnipiac is not better than Whittier. Both are diploma mills giving their students less than 50% chance of ever working in the field they are attending school for. Any school under 50% should be shut down.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby CR7 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:24 pm

lol they put out a strong ad campaign: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8IlW5ifl1A

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cron1834

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby cron1834 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:42 pm

If you care about minorities and POC, then you should want to shut down the institutions that straight-up prey on them. Like these vultures.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby vcap180 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:09 pm

cron1834 wrote:If you care about minorities and POC, then you should want to shut down the institutions that straight-up prey on them. Like these vultures.



This.

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Pragmatic Gun

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:23 pm

Ferris, how do you think that less than a 50% chance of becoming a full-time attorney is a good idea? I'm curious because you are the closest we have to a test subject that could determine the current issue we are debating.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Ferrisjso » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:25 pm

Pragmatic Gun wrote:Ferris, how do you think that less than a 50% chance of becoming a full-time attorney is a good idea? I'm curious because you are the closest we have to a test subject that could determine the current issue we are debating.


Maybe if you guys weren't so brutal you'd have more test subjects. I'm being serious, how many of the people who are TTT and TTTT students who make threads actually stick around?(if they did all their threads would be 50 pages). I know there's alot of people who read the forums who never gather the confidence to post(because this has been confirmed in real life and it's probably more widespread). Well first off, i think it's over a fifty percent chance because of JD advantage/self selection. I also believe I will be ranked highly and I know everyone can make fun of me all I want for that but let's say I don't get employed, having less debt to go TTT was worth more than having a high paying job and more debt. There were also a lot of other factors that played into my decision but seeing how high interest is and that is accrues for three years/the bar period/tuition increases made me believe that all COA is underinflated no matter how much you try to be accurate and that 10%, 20% or whatever % chance of getting a better job simply wasn't worth it. To most laymen unless you went to like a handful of schools a lawyer is a lawyer, I won't get made fun of for going to QU and I'll be paying much less for a JD. I'll also get to be in my market of choice that I feel is more fertile grounds for a political rise.

Listen I don't want to get it twisted, I'm happy Whitter was shut down(and I hope every day, Charlotte, Florida Coastal and Arizona Summit follow suit) it is a scam, the same way Indiana Tech was a scam and should have been shut down. Dozens of other schools should be shut down also but QU isn't one of them. In an ideal world they'd be about 150 law schools and QU would be in the worst bunch but it is better than the TTTT's alot of the TTT's. At the end of the day I recieved lots of advice on TLS both from lurking and my inexplicably long choosing thread and I just felt most people's advice for me not to go to a TTT contradicted the advice of go where you want to practice and go where you take on less debt. The coins flip chance of being employed was just a risk I felt more comfortable with than taking than 100k+ in debt and being in a situation I didn't want to be in.

In terms of people going to TTT's and TTTT's again, I tend to agree with TLS on this matter but outside of here the worlds a very different place and there's lots of people who give the impression of competence(pre law advisors etc) who steer kids towards these schools as they're likely their cheapest options. I remember one of my advisors told me "either go to a T50 law school regardless of price, or not at all". For example I've never heard a negative word about QU Law outside of TLS's forum's and with the exception of InfiLaw/Cooley and a few others that have achieved memehood I sadly think this is largely true everywhere. I've made jokes about several TTTT's to other people who are not involved with the law, and the end result is they ended up looking at me like I was an *******, which would be the same reaction that all of you would get if we had this conversation about Whittier in real life. The only exception is Cooley and InfiLaw because again creating rankings and making yourself numero dous and an Arizona LS partnering with a Florida UG to prey on minority's really does earn you a special place in hell.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:56 pm

^There's a sterling example of someone being repeatedly exposed to information and willfully ignoring it.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby grades?? » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:01 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:^There's a sterling example of someone being repeatedly exposed to information and willfully ignoring it.


Yeah. Ferris is literally making up reasons for why QU employment rate is awful. He has been warned over and over and still thinks he will beat the god awful odds. This is literally the perfect example of what you see in that Whittier video. This isn't about asymmetrical information (or access to said information), this is about being irrational and delusional.

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Pragmatic Gun

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:04 pm

Pls respect my test subject. Getting his informed consent was not easy.

you may respectfully submit questions to him as to how he processes information to which he is exposed.

Thank you,

University of TLS Department of Abnormal Psychology.

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Desert Fox

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:05 pm

He's pretty stupid, so Quinpack (where is this school, I've never heard of it) is probably a pretty good option
Last edited by Desert Fox on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Stylnator

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Stylnator » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:07 pm

this is horrifying to read.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby cougs1112 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:08 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
Pragmatic Gun wrote:Ferris, how do you think that less than a 50% chance of becoming a full-time attorney is a good idea? I'm curious because you are the closest we have to a test subject that could determine the current issue we are debating.


Maybe if you guys weren't so brutal you'd have more test subjects. I'm being serious, how many of the people who are TTT and TTTT students who make threads actually stick around?(if they did all their threads would be 50 pages). I know there's alot of people who read the forums who never gather the confidence to post(because this has been confirmed in real life and it's probably more widespread). Well first off, i think it's over a fifty percent chance because of JD advantage/self selection. I also believe I will be ranked highly and I know everyone can make fun of me all I want for that but let's say I don't get employed, having less debt to go TTT was worth more than having a high paying job and more debt. There were also a lot of other factors that played into my decision but seeing how high interest is and that is accrues for three years/the bar period/tuition increases made me believe that all COA is underinflated no matter how much you try to be accurate and that 10%, 20% or whatever % chance of getting a better job simply wasn't worth it. To most laymen unless you went to like a handful of schools a lawyer is a lawyer, I won't get made fun of for going to QU and I'll be paying much less for a JD. I'll also get to be in my market of choice that I feel is more fertile grounds for a political rise.

Listen I don't want to get it twisted, I'm happy Whitter was shut down(and I hope every day, Charlotte, Florida Coastal and Arizona Summit follow suit) it is a scam, the same way Indiana Tech was a scam and should have been shut down. Dozens of other schools should be shut down also but QU isn't one of them. In an ideal world they'd be about 150 law schools and QU would be in the worst bunch but it is better than the TTTT's alot of the TTT's. At the end of the day I recieved lots of advice on TLS both from lurking and my inexplicably long choosing thread and I just felt most people's advice for me not to go to a TTT contradicted the advice of go where you want to practice and go where you take on less debt. The coins flip chance of being employed was just a risk I felt more comfortable with than taking than 100k+ in debt and being in a situation I didn't want to be in.

In terms of people going to TTT's and TTTT's again, I tend to agree with TLS on this matter but outside of here the worlds a very different place and there's lots of people who give the impression of competence(pre law advisors etc) who steer kids towards these schools as they're likely their cheapest options. I remember one of my advisors told me "either go to a T50 law school regardless of price, or not at all". For example I've never heard a negative word about QU Law outside of TLS's forum's and with the exception of InfiLaw/Cooley and a few others that have achieved memehood I sadly think this is largely true everywhere. I've made jokes about several TTTT's to other people who are not involved with the law, and the end result is they ended up looking at me like I was an *******, which would be the same reaction that all of you would get if we had this conversation about Whittier in real life. The only exception is Cooley and InfiLaw because again creating rankings and making yourself numero dous and an Arizona LS partnering with a Florida UG to prey on minority's really does earn you a special place in hell.


bro, have you seen this?

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/quinnipiac/

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:09 pm

Desert Fox wrote:He's pretty stupid, so Quinpack (where is this school, I've never heard of it) is probably a pretty good option


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Big Red

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Big Red » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:17 pm

what was the retake situation here?

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby ernie » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:20 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:Maybe if you guys weren't so brutal you'd have more test subjects. I'm being serious, how many of the people who are TTT and TTTT students who make threads actually stick around?(if they did all their threads would be 50 pages). I know there's alot of people who read the forums who never gather the confidence to post(because this has been confirmed in real life and it's probably more widespread).

I don't think TLS is "brutal," I just think TLS tells people things that are difficult for them to hear. Not everyone gets to be a lawyer. Lots of people go to law school and never practice because they couldn't hack it in the job market. You tend not to hear about those cases because these people don't go shouting it from a rooftop. People are telling you not to go to a law school that gives you a 50/50 chance of practicing because they don't want you to make a mistake you'll regret for the rest of your life, not because there's some secret elitist cabal out to humiliate TTT students.

I really do wish you luck with the QU thing, but if it doesn't pan out for you, you'll really only have yourself to blame; can't say we didn't warn you.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby lavarman84 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:20 pm

grades?? wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:^There's a sterling example of someone being repeatedly exposed to information and willfully ignoring it.


Yeah. Ferris is literally making up reasons for why QU employment rate is awful. He has been warned over and over and still thinks he will beat the god awful odds. This is literally the perfect example of what you see in that Whittier video. This isn't about asymmetrical information (or access to said information), this is about being irrational and delusional.


Ferris made some reasonable points, and his decision was reasonable enough. He's going to relatively bad law school, but he's got a full scholarship (or a near full one). If it doesn't work out for him, he isn't fucked for life. He wants to take the risk knowing the employment numbers. That's his choice.

cougs1112 wrote:I've personally come across a few people with LSAT's in the 150's or below who refuse to listen to anyone telling them to study and retake. My guess is the majority of people going to these TTTT's are of the same mindset.

My parents were immigrants, I have no lawyers in my family, and I only knew one lawyer (a TTT grad) before starting school. None of this stopped me from going on the internet and looking up LSAT info/law school rankings/bar passage rates/employment outcomes. All the information is out there. For some reason too many people in our generation want to blame others for their own mistakes. If someone can't spend 10 minutes on the internet doing some research before taking out 200k in loans, they deserve to be in this position.


I hate this argument. I always see it. "I didn't fall for it, so why should we pity anyone who did?" The worst are the people who claim that the children of those in poverty aren't at a disadvantage because "I was poor growing up, and I still succeeded."

There are a number of posters that adequately explain why the students are far less culpable than the schools in this scenario. Those people most definitely don't "deserve" to be in this position.(what a shitty thing to say)

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby shadowfax » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:49 pm

lawman84 wrote:
grades?? wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:^There's a sterling example of someone being repeatedly exposed to information and willfully ignoring it.


Yeah. Ferris is literally making up reasons for why QU employment rate is awful. He has been warned over and over and still thinks he will beat the god awful odds. This is literally the perfect example of what you see in that Whittier video. This isn't about asymmetrical information (or access to said information), this is about being irrational and delusional.


Ferris made some reasonable points, and his decision was reasonable enough. He's going to relatively bad law school, but he's got a full scholarship (or a near full one). If it doesn't work out for him, he isn't fucked for life. He wants to take the risk knowing the employment numbers. That's his choice.

cougs1112 wrote:I've personally come across a few people with LSAT's in the 150's or below who refuse to listen to anyone telling them to study and retake. My guess is the majority of people going to these TTTT's are of the same mindset.

My parents were immigrants, I have no lawyers in my family, and I only knew one lawyer (a TTT grad) before starting school. None of this stopped me from going on the internet and looking up LSAT info/law school rankings/bar passage rates/employment outcomes. All the information is out there. For some reason too many people in our generation want to blame others for their own mistakes. If someone can't spend 10 minutes on the internet doing some research before taking out 200k in loans, they deserve to be in this position.


I hate this argument. I always see it. "I didn't fall for it, so why should we pity anyone who did?" The worst are the people who claim that the children of those in poverty aren't at a disadvantage because "I was poor growing up, and I still succeeded."

There are a number of posters that adequately explain why the students are far less culpable than the schools in this scenario. Those people most definitely don't "deserve" to be in this position.(what a shitty thing to say)


Excellent post. TLS has more than it's fair share of elite wannabes. They show equal disdain for those who go the less well regarded schools as those who go to the best. They are clever little snipers who spend a whole lot of time trying to buy a nickel for 4 cents thinking somehow that makes them accomplished. If what happened to the students at Whittier doesn't at least make you pause to consider their plight then you have no heart.

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Pragmatic Gun

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:51 pm

I was not expecting this thread to be a discussion of TLS culture. Please continue.

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Ferrisjso

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Ferrisjso » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:57 pm

ernie wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Maybe if you guys weren't so brutal you'd have more test subjects. I'm being serious, how many of the people who are TTT and TTTT students who make threads actually stick around?(if they did all their threads would be 50 pages). I know there's alot of people who read the forums who never gather the confidence to post(because this has been confirmed in real life and it's probably more widespread).

I don't think TLS is "brutal," I just think TLS tells people things that are difficult for them to hear. Not everyone gets to be a lawyer. Lots of people go to law school and never practice because they couldn't hack it in the job market. You tend not to hear about those cases because these people don't go shouting it from a rooftop. People are telling you not to go to a law school that gives you a 50/50 chance of practicing because they don't want you to make a mistake you'll regret for the rest of your life, not because there's some secret elitist cabal out to humiliate TTT students.

I really do wish you luck with the QU thing, but if it doesn't pan out for you, you'll really only have yourself to blame; can't say we didn't warn you.


Well I picked the school where I'd have the least to lose if things don't work out(and also the least to gain). I think this is the reason why alot of people pick TTT's and TTTT's, it's just cheaper and the horror stories at least for me made me more worried about debt at 6% interest than in the likelihood of not getting a job. Then there's the people who paid sticker for these places and that's.... something else.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:59 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
ernie wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Maybe if you guys weren't so brutal you'd have more test subjects. I'm being serious, how many of the people who are TTT and TTTT students who make threads actually stick around?(if they did all their threads would be 50 pages). I know there's alot of people who read the forums who never gather the confidence to post(because this has been confirmed in real life and it's probably more widespread).

I don't think TLS is "brutal," I just think TLS tells people things that are difficult for them to hear. Not everyone gets to be a lawyer. Lots of people go to law school and never practice because they couldn't hack it in the job market. You tend not to hear about those cases because these people don't go shouting it from a rooftop. People are telling you not to go to a law school that gives you a 50/50 chance of practicing because they don't want you to make a mistake you'll regret for the rest of your life, not because there's some secret elitist cabal out to humiliate TTT students.

I really do wish you luck with the QU thing, but if it doesn't pan out for you, you'll really only have yourself to blame; can't say we didn't warn you.


Well I picked the school where I'd have the least to lose if things don't work out(and also the least to gain). I think this is the reason why alot of people pick TTT's and TTTT's, it's just cheaper and the horror stories at least for me made me more worried about debt at 6% interest than in the likelihood of not getting a job. Then there's the people who paid sticker for these places and that's.... something else.


I think this is the most cogent think you have written on this forum.



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