Whittier Shutting Down

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curry1

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby curry1 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:39 pm

Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:
Stylnator wrote:
vcap180 wrote:
blerggggg wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:
My post wasn't meant to roast the students. People are generally bad with statistics. I think this equally applies to top law students, but they go to schools where job outcomes aren't an issue so it doesn't really matter for thEm.

I just don't think lack of information is the issue anymore. Maybe it was pre-ITE but not now. I think everyone in that room is aware that Whittier has terrible placement. But that does not make what the school admin is doing any less predatory


Oh don't worry, it wasn't directed towards you. The students should have done their due diligence there is no doubt about that; but given the context of who these student might be and what their backgrounds are, they might not be dealing with same set of facts we all are. Had I not known about TLS a couple years ago, had I not known other law school students that gave me advice, I could well be on my way to going to John Marshall. The students have blame, but the school administrators and ABA have more. Just surprised me that so many people on here could be like, "oh you got a 140? you didn't know to google xyz law school 509 and employment data? you have no sympathy from me."



I've always been amused by the irony of comments like this; do you realize how offensive this ought to be to the individuals that you are purporting to be standing up for?


Since when is it offensive to not assume everyone has equal access to resources?


Unless they submitted their applications by snail mail, I'm pretty sure they had access to a computer when they applied. I'm pretty sure anyone in the United States (let alone Southern California) can get access to a computer somehow. A trip to the public library would've been the bare minimum before someone decides to spend six-figures on ANY investment.

If someone blindly invests $1 million on an acre of dirt in Appalachia, I'm pretty sure you would blame the investor for not looking into it, not the seller.


Do you think these people read? Let alone go to libraries?

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:43 pm

curry1 wrote:
Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:
Stylnator wrote:
vcap180 wrote:
blerggggg wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:
My post wasn't meant to roast the students. People are generally bad with statistics. I think this equally applies to top law students, but they go to schools where job outcomes aren't an issue so it doesn't really matter for thEm.

I just don't think lack of information is the issue anymore. Maybe it was pre-ITE but not now. I think everyone in that room is aware that Whittier has terrible placement. But that does not make what the school admin is doing any less predatory


Oh don't worry, it wasn't directed towards you. The students should have done their due diligence there is no doubt about that; but given the context of who these student might be and what their backgrounds are, they might not be dealing with same set of facts we all are. Had I not known about TLS a couple years ago, had I not known other law school students that gave me advice, I could well be on my way to going to John Marshall. The students have blame, but the school administrators and ABA have more. Just surprised me that so many people on here could be like, "oh you got a 140? you didn't know to google xyz law school 509 and employment data? you have no sympathy from me."



I've always been amused by the irony of comments like this; do you realize how offensive this ought to be to the individuals that you are purporting to be standing up for?


Since when is it offensive to not assume everyone has equal access to resources?


Unless they submitted their applications by snail mail, I'm pretty sure they had access to a computer when they applied. I'm pretty sure anyone in the United States (let alone Southern California) can get access to a computer somehow. A trip to the public library would've been the bare minimum before someone decides to spend six-figures on ANY investment.

If someone blindly invests $1 million on an acre of dirt in Appalachia, I'm pretty sure you would blame the investor for not looking into it, not the seller.


Do you think these people read? Let alone go to libraries?


Now that's just messed up.

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Stylnator

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Stylnator » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:46 pm

vcap180 wrote:
Stylnator wrote:
vcap180 wrote:
blerggggg wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:
My post wasn't meant to roast the students. People are generally bad with statistics. I think this equally applies to top law students, but they go to schools where job outcomes aren't an issue so it doesn't really matter for thEm.

I just don't think lack of information is the issue anymore. Maybe it was pre-ITE but not now. I think everyone in that room is aware that Whittier has terrible placement. But that does not make what the school admin is doing any less predatory


Oh don't worry, it wasn't directed towards you. The students should have done their due diligence there is no doubt about that; but given the context of who these student might be and what their backgrounds are, they might not be dealing with same set of facts we all are. Had I not known about TLS a couple years ago, had I not known other law school students that gave me advice, I could well be on my way to going to John Marshall. The students have blame, but the school administrators and ABA have more. Just surprised me that so many people on here could be like, "oh you got a 140? you didn't know to google xyz law school 509 and employment data? you have no sympathy from me."



I've always been amused by the irony of comments like this; do you realize how offensive this ought to be to the individuals that you are purporting to be standing up for?


Since when is it offensive to not assume everyone has equal access to resources?



It's offensive to assume that individuals from less than ideal socioeconomic backgrounds are incapable of performing basic research with regard to major life decisions.


You are missing the point. No one is saying that they don't have the ability + or intellectual capacity for googling shit. The students with a different background might have a greater sense of need to go to a professional school in the hopes of getting out of their circumstances. They might have been led into the false narrative of law degrees bringing wealth. Even if they did research, social pressure from family could have led them to Whittier. Desperate financial circumstances might cause them into thinking they can absolutely be the top % who makes it. There's a myriad of factors that can lead a student down this path, but for students from lower socioeconomic backgrounds it's easier to fall into this trap.

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blerggggg

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby blerggggg » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:56 pm

vcap180 wrote:
Stylnator wrote:
vcap180 wrote:
blerggggg wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:
My post wasn't meant to roast the students. People are generally bad with statistics. I think this equally applies to top law students, but they go to schools where job outcomes aren't an issue so it doesn't really matter for thEm.

I just don't think lack of information is the issue anymore. Maybe it was pre-ITE but not now. I think everyone in that room is aware that Whittier has terrible placement. But that does not make what the school admin is doing any less predatory


Oh don't worry, it wasn't directed towards you. The students should have done their due diligence there is no doubt about that; but given the context of who these student might be and what their backgrounds are, they might not be dealing with same set of facts we all are. Had I not known about TLS a couple years ago, had I not known other law school students that gave me advice, I could well be on my way to going to John Marshall. The students have blame, but the school administrators and ABA have more. Just surprised me that so many people on here could be like, "oh you got a 140? you didn't know to google xyz law school 509 and employment data? you have no sympathy from me."



I've always been amused by the irony of comments like this; do you realize how offensive this ought to be to the individuals that you are purporting to be standing up for?


Since when is it offensive to not assume everyone has equal access to resources?



It's offensive to assume that individuals from less than ideal socioeconomic backgrounds are incapable of performing basic research with regard to major life decisions.


So now you care about these students? A couple posts ago you just said you didn't have sympathy for them because they scored in the 140s? Which is it?

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby vcap180 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:13 pm

blerggggg wrote:
vcap180 wrote:
Stylnator wrote:
vcap180 wrote:
blerggggg wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:
My post wasn't meant to roast the students. People are generally bad with statistics. I think this equally applies to top law students, but they go to schools where job outcomes aren't an issue so it doesn't really matter for thEm.

I just don't think lack of information is the issue anymore. Maybe it was pre-ITE but not now. I think everyone in that room is aware that Whittier has terrible placement. But that does not make what the school admin is doing any less predatory


Oh don't worry, it wasn't directed towards you. The students should have done their due diligence there is no doubt about that; but given the context of who these student might be and what their backgrounds are, they might not be dealing with same set of facts we all are. Had I not known about TLS a couple years ago, had I not known other law school students that gave me advice, I could well be on my way to going to John Marshall. The students have blame, but the school administrators and ABA have more. Just surprised me that so many people on here could be like, "oh you got a 140? you didn't know to google xyz law school 509 and employment data? you have no sympathy from me."



I've always been amused by the irony of comments like this; do you realize how offensive this ought to be to the individuals that you are purporting to be standing up for?


Since when is it offensive to not assume everyone has equal access to resources?



It's offensive to assume that individuals from less than ideal socioeconomic backgrounds are incapable of performing basic research with regard to major life decisions.


So now you care about these students? A couple posts ago you just said you didn't have sympathy for them because they scored in the 140s? Which is it?



I am not expressing sympathy for sub 150 scorers who insist on attending law school (although it is unfortunate); rather, I am pointing out the hypocracy in some of the self-righteous posters that are.

As I said in a previous post: it's 50% on the student for making a willfully ignorant or reckless decision; and it's 50% on the ABA for allowing such decisions.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby lawlzzz » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:49 pm

Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:
Stylnator wrote:
vcap180 wrote:
blerggggg wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:
My post wasn't meant to roast the students. People are generally bad with statistics. I think this equally applies to top law students, but they go to schools where job outcomes aren't an issue so it doesn't really matter for thEm.

I just don't think lack of information is the issue anymore. Maybe it was pre-ITE but not now. I think everyone in that room is aware that Whittier has terrible placement. But that does not make what the school admin is doing any less predatory


Oh don't worry, it wasn't directed towards you. The students should have done their due diligence there is no doubt about that; but given the context of who these student might be and what their backgrounds are, they might not be dealing with same set of facts we all are. Had I not known about TLS a couple years ago, had I not known other law school students that gave me advice, I could well be on my way to going to John Marshall. The students have blame, but the school administrators and ABA have more. Just surprised me that so many people on here could be like, "oh you got a 140? you didn't know to google xyz law school 509 and employment data? you have no sympathy from me."



I've always been amused by the irony of comments like this; do you realize how offensive this ought to be to the individuals that you are purporting to be standing up for?


Since when is it offensive to not assume everyone has equal access to resources?


Unless they submitted their applications by snail mail, I'm pretty sure they had access to a computer when they applied. I'm pretty sure anyone in the United States (let alone Southern California) can get access to a computer somehow. A trip to the public library would've been the bare minimum before someone decides to spend six-figures on ANY investment.

If someone blindly invests $1 million on an acre of dirt in Appalachia, I'm pretty sure you would blame the investor for not looking into it, not the seller.


I think it's already been established by various others that this is about more than just access to a computer...

Also, I'm a POC from a low-income background, and I'm not offended by blerggggg's comments. I agree with them.

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Pragmatic Gun

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:13 pm

lawlzzz wrote:
Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:
Stylnator wrote:
vcap180 wrote:
blerggggg wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:
My post wasn't meant to roast the students. People are generally bad with statistics. I think this equally applies to top law students, but they go to schools where job outcomes aren't an issue so it doesn't really matter for thEm.

I just don't think lack of information is the issue anymore. Maybe it was pre-ITE but not now. I think everyone in that room is aware that Whittier has terrible placement. But that does not make what the school admin is doing any less predatory


Oh don't worry, it wasn't directed towards you. The students should have done their due diligence there is no doubt about that; but given the context of who these student might be and what their backgrounds are, they might not be dealing with same set of facts we all are. Had I not known about TLS a couple years ago, had I not known other law school students that gave me advice, I could well be on my way to going to John Marshall. The students have blame, but the school administrators and ABA have more. Just surprised me that so many people on here could be like, "oh you got a 140? you didn't know to google xyz law school 509 and employment data? you have no sympathy from me."



I've always been amused by the irony of comments like this; do you realize how offensive this ought to be to the individuals that you are purporting to be standing up for?


Since when is it offensive to not assume everyone has equal access to resources?


Unless they submitted their applications by snail mail, I'm pretty sure they had access to a computer when they applied. I'm pretty sure anyone in the United States (let alone Southern California) can get access to a computer somehow. A trip to the public library would've been the bare minimum before someone decides to spend six-figures on ANY investment.

If someone blindly invests $1 million on an acre of dirt in Appalachia, I'm pretty sure you would blame the investor for not looking into it, not the seller.


I think it's already been established by various others that this is about more than just access to a computer...

Also, I'm a POC from a low-income background, and I'm not offended by blerggggg's comments. I agree with them.


As a Hispanic person, I love my community, but large portions of them can be pretty ignorant about tertiary education and professional education in general.

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Pragmatic Gun

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:16 pm

Also, people on these forums most likely come from privileged backgrounds and/or have consumed the TLS mantra of "retake and apply to all the T13s." The biggest complaint about this forum from people who come to ask questions is that it is "too elitist." While a lot of these complainers need a reality check, their complaint is not without merit.

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AlbertParsons

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby AlbertParsons » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:31 pm

Pragmatic Gun wrote:
lawlzzz wrote:
Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:
Stylnator wrote:
vcap180 wrote:
blerggggg wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:
My post wasn't meant to roast the students. People are generally bad with statistics. I think this equally applies to top law students, but they go to schools where job outcomes aren't an issue so it doesn't really matter for thEm.

I just don't think lack of information is the issue anymore. Maybe it was pre-ITE but not now. I think everyone in that room is aware that Whittier has terrible placement. But that does not make what the school admin is doing any less predatory


Oh don't worry, it wasn't directed towards you. The students should have done their due diligence there is no doubt about that; but given the context of who these student might be and what their backgrounds are, they might not be dealing with same set of facts we all are. Had I not known about TLS a couple years ago, had I not known other law school students that gave me advice, I could well be on my way to going to John Marshall. The students have blame, but the school administrators and ABA have more. Just surprised me that so many people on here could be like, "oh you got a 140? you didn't know to google xyz law school 509 and employment data? you have no sympathy from me."



I've always been amused by the irony of comments like this; do you realize how offensive this ought to be to the individuals that you are purporting to be standing up for?


Since when is it offensive to not assume everyone has equal access to resources?


Unless they submitted their applications by snail mail, I'm pretty sure they had access to a computer when they applied. I'm pretty sure anyone in the United States (let alone Southern California) can get access to a computer somehow. A trip to the public library would've been the bare minimum before someone decides to spend six-figures on ANY investment.

If someone blindly invests $1 million on an acre of dirt in Appalachia, I'm pretty sure you would blame the investor for not looking into it, not the seller.


I think it's already been established by various others that this is about more than just access to a computer...

Also, I'm a POC from a low-income background, and I'm not offended by blerggggg's comments. I agree with them.


As a Hispanic person, I love my community, but large portions of them can be pretty ignorant about tertiary education and professional education in general.


But we have parse through that ignorance. Many folks who get screwed like this do not make these decisions inside a vacuum and were supported by guidance counselors, admissions staff and others. Yes, they all suck. And yes, maybe people should look at decisions that require such a high financial commitement with a degree of healthy skepticism, but there is something about being on the precipice of a better life that clouds that skepticism. And again, that skepticism exists in a world in which folks view the legal profession as an avenue to a better life.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby star fox » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:49 pm

It is what it is, I think there's a difference between people overreacting with any regionally respected school that gives a good shot at practicing small type law "OMG LIFE RUINOUS!!!" and a school like Whittier where half the class is UNDER-EMPLOYED (Not just not in a JD FT/LT job but like basically not working at all). With the right information, going to the former is fine I think (ideally at not a high cost and being aware of the risks and what you need to do going in). A place like Whittier though is just a bad idea no matter who you are or what your circumstances are. I don't think making fun of anyone accomplishes much of anything but it's definitely ok to point out that people should be at least a little aware of that kind of situation before enrolling. I bet a lot of the Whittier students are aware of their situation by the time they're in 3L but feel path-dependency and were not the people shouting in that video, who suffer from a state of delusion and refuse to accept facts when they're being waived right in front of their face. My hunch is that is those people constitute the "loud minority" of students at a school like that.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:49 pm

AlbertParsons wrote:But we have parse through that ignorance. Many folks who get screwed like this do not make these decisions inside a vacuum and were supported by guidance counselors, admissions staff and others. Yes, they all suck. And yes, maybe people should look at decisions that require such a high financial commitement with a degree of healthy skepticism, but there is something about being on the precipice of a better life that clouds that skepticism. And again, that skepticism exists in a world in which folks view the legal profession as an avenue to a better life.


So how far do we forgive this and blame everything on circumstance?

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Hogwartsexpress » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:54 pm

Pragmatic Gun wrote:Also, people on these forums most likely come from privileged backgrounds and/or have consumed the TLS mantra of "retake and apply to all the T13s." The biggest complaint about this forum from people who come to ask questions is that it is "too elitist." While a lot of these complainers need a reality check, their complaint is not without merit.


OMG finally somebody said it:!:

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby star fox » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:00 pm

TLS is elitist as fuck, but so is law generally. I'm not sure if TLS is necessarily more elitist than the profession as a whole or maybe just the type of law TLSers go into tends to be that way, law is a pretty big field and TLSers tend to only operate in the realm of a portion of it.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby star fox » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:01 pm

But there's a lot of cringeworthy shit I've heard from my classmates in just my three years at law school. People really think going to a good graduate educational program makes them innately better human beings.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby AlbertParsons » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:05 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
AlbertParsons wrote:But we have parse through that ignorance. Many folks who get screwed like this do not make these decisions inside a vacuum and were supported by guidance counselors, admissions staff and others. Yes, they all suck. And yes, maybe people should look at decisions that require such a high financial commitement with a degree of healthy skepticism, but there is something about being on the precipice of a better life that clouds that skepticism. And again, that skepticism exists in a world in which folks view the legal profession as an avenue to a better life.


So how far do we forgive this and blame everything on circumstance?


I do not have a good answer for that. What I do know is that it is difficult to arrive at that answer when we have systemic issues with the ABA and really shitty people that are profiting off of peoples' hopes and dreams. I'd rather indict the system and bad actors, rather than judge the hopeful and the foolish. Our tendency to focus on the latter always allows the former to continue.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Alpal29 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:15 pm

AlbertParsons wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
AlbertParsons wrote:But we have parse through that ignorance. Many folks who get screwed like this do not make these decisions inside a vacuum and were supported by guidance counselors, admissions staff and others. Yes, they all suck. And yes, maybe people should look at decisions that require such a high financial commitement with a degree of healthy skepticism, but there is something about being on the precipice of a better life that clouds that skepticism. And again, that skepticism exists in a world in which folks view the legal profession as an avenue to a better life.


So how far do we forgive this and blame everything on circumstance?


I do not have a good answer for that. What I do know is that it is difficult to arrive at that answer when we have systemic issues with the ABA and really shitty people that are profiting off of peoples' hopes and dreams. I'd rather indict the system and bad actors, rather than judge the hopeful and the foolish. Our tendency to focus on the latter always allows the former to continue.


I agree with another poster who said it's likely most of the 3Ls have realized the pit they've fallen into but are just finishing because they see no other option. Those in the video are a vocal minority. I do believe a lot of it comes from circumstance though, even if your middle class white person seeks advice from administrators at your typical liberal arts or state schools, they're getting wrong and dangerous information. With those students though there tends to be a larger economic safety net, and more people in their network who can potentially get the correct information to them.

If your first generation college students from a lower economic background and likely POC, your family is most likely only going to know that going to law school and being a lawyer is great and will make you money. They don't understand the nuances to the legal education, because mainstream media doesn't break that down. So you go to your schools pre-law advisor, which is likely pretty shitty to begin with, you think you can trust them because their title is "pre-law" advisor and you need guidance, you have no experience, you have no one in your network who has experience, and a lot of cursory stuff online is all promotional materials until you dig in really deep.

So the pre law advisor tells you that a 150 on the LSAT is average, and thus good, and that any of the many TTT or even TTTT schools are great for you to attend because they're law schools, you want to go to law school. Unless you strike gold and have a fantastic advisor they're not going to know about tiering or loans or employment statistics enough to dissuade you.

If you don't use your advisor, like I said, a lot of stuff online is promotional. When researching schools and such you may come upon the rankings, but its likely you don't understand the significance because in undergrad rankings rarely matter so why should they matter in law school? If by chance they stumble upon TLS or another forum hopefully they're saved. But then they have to deal with family pressure to just GO to law school.

At the end of this cycle we've got TTTT and for profit schools preying on the students in these situations. They take their money and promise them jobs knowing full well it won't ever happen, but they're in a position of authority, and a student without the network or knowledgeable people to tell them NO isn't going to know that they're lying and shouldn't listen to them. They've got their undergrad, their advisors, their family, their friends, and admissions telling them it's a good idea.

I agree. It's incredibly systematic, and incredibly predatory. While some of the blame goes on the students who wind up at these schools, and even more goes to the students who figure out the con half way through and stay, most of it should go on the ABA and the institutions that perpetrate the abuse.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby tinyvessels » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:24 pm

Okay, I wasn't going to post anything, but jesus christ the tone deafness in these comments is spectacular. Look, do I think these students should take personal responsibility for their decision to go to this school, one hundred percent yes. The scam blogs have been out since 2010 and the mainstream media started covering the law school scam around that time, if not, at least by 2011. Literally all they had to do was google 'whitter law school employment stats/bar passage' and it would have told them everything they needed to know. I think a lot of these students did, but thought 'I'm gonna be the exception to the rule' and wanted to just be able to say they were going to law school, any law school.

With that being said, people really need to understand that for students coming from socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds, which unfortunately includes a significant amount of minorities, the law school application process isn't as easy as get a good GPA and then study your ass off for the LSAT. You guys are hung up on the 'I can't believe these dumbasses went to law school with a sub-150 scores.' Which, yes, is a terrible choice, and one I would never make personally, but you need to think more critically about these students and their backgrounds. The LSAT is learnable yes, but if you've never been conditioned, or at least exposed, in things like logical thinking or reading comprehension in a meaningful or sustained way, the 'learnability' of the test falls to the wayside.

A lot of these students have been underserved by their communities, schools, teachers, etc. since they entered formal schooling by the time they were six or seven. At a certain point, when you fall behind, its basically impossible to catch up. This has resulted in a general crisis in education in this country, and has hit the law schools the worst because these predatory low ranked schools target these students just to get tuition and continue getting their criminally large salaries.

So yes, blame these students for not believing that employment and bar passage statistics applies to them, but I understand wanting to be that person in your family or community that beats the odds, so to speak. Anyway, I have a whole other rant about education in this country in general. But until we put more focus on useful college degrees aka stem and pushing more students to trade/technical schools, instead of 'prestigious' or 'elite' academic pursuits, these scam schools won't be going away anytime soon.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby star fox » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:27 pm

The only American dream, America itself, was built on the idea that you should not just accept that you'll be the modal outcome.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:42 pm

Hogwartsexpress wrote:
Pragmatic Gun wrote:Also, people on these forums most likely come from privileged backgrounds and/or have consumed the TLS mantra of "retake and apply to all the T13s." The biggest complaint about this forum from people who come to ask questions is that it is "too elitist." While a lot of these complainers need a reality check, their complaint is not without merit.


OMG finally somebody said it:!:


Yes, finally. No one has ever called people on these forums "elitist". That's entirely new and unexpected. I might die from shock.

Over half of this bullshit comes from people who post about their desire to be a multimillionaire partner at Cravath, so should they choose American or Drexel? If more people had the goal of working in a small firm or local government and had a full scholarship at a solid local school, there would be a lot fewer people recommending a retake.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:44 pm

star fox wrote:But there's a lot of cringeworthy shit I've heard from my classmates in just my three years at law school. People really think going to a good graduate educational program makes them innately better human beings.


TLS and law is very elitist.

But the big issue is that law schools are charging elite pricing. And the government is giving you elite amounts of cash to blow.

If law school cost 10k in tuition and the fed gov wouldn't give you 20k in living expense money a year, then I'd say go whatever TTT you can get into, as long as you want to be any sort of lawyer.

So part time students at CUNY? Go knock yourself out. But telling someone to fuck off when they ask if some random school is worth 200k isn't elitist at all.
Last edited by Desert Fox on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:47 pm

star fox wrote:The only American dream, America itself, was built on the idea that you should not just accept that you'll be the modal outcome.


disagree: the american dream was that the modal outcome was actually good.
Last edited by Desert Fox on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ferrisjso

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Ferrisjso » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:01 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
star fox wrote:But there's a lot of cringeworthy shit I've heard from my classmates in just my three years at law school. People really think going to a good graduate educational program makes them innately better human beings.


TLS and law is very elitist.

But the big issue is that law schools are charging elite pricing. And the government is giving you elite amounts of cash to blow.

If law school cost 10k in tuition and the fed gov wouldn't give you 20k in living expense money a year, then I'd say go whatever TTT you can get into, as long as you want to be any sort of lawyer.

So part time students at CUNY? Go knock yourself out. But telling someone to fuck off when they ask if some random school is worth 200k isn't elitist at all.


If this is true why did I get ****** on for going to a TTT for COL?

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Desert Fox

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Desert Fox » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:04 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
star fox wrote:But there's a lot of cringeworthy shit I've heard from my classmates in just my three years at law school. People really think going to a good graduate educational program makes them innately better human beings.


TLS and law is very elitist.

But the big issue is that law schools are charging elite pricing. And the government is giving you elite amounts of cash to blow.

If law school cost 10k in tuition and the fed gov wouldn't give you 20k in living expense money a year, then I'd say go whatever TTT you can get into, as long as you want to be any sort of lawyer.

So part time students at CUNY? Go knock yourself out. But telling someone to fuck off when they ask if some random school is worth 200k isn't elitist at all.


If this is true why did I get ****** on for going to a TTT for COL?


like i said TLS is elitist as fuck. But you made a better choice than me paying 250k for northwestern.
Last edited by Desert Fox on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

grades??

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby grades?? » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:09 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
star fox wrote:But there's a lot of cringeworthy shit I've heard from my classmates in just my three years at law school. People really think going to a good graduate educational program makes them innately better human beings.


TLS and law is very elitist.

But the big issue is that law schools are charging elite pricing. And the government is giving you elite amounts of cash to blow.

If law school cost 10k in tuition and the fed gov wouldn't give you 20k in living expense money a year, then I'd say go whatever TTT you can get into, as long as you want to be any sort of lawyer.

So part time students at CUNY? Go knock yourself out. But telling someone to fuck off when they ask if some random school is worth 200k isn't elitist at all.


If this is true why did I get ****** on for going to a TTT for COL?


because Quinnipiac is not any better than Whittier. Thats why

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Rahviveh

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Re: Whittier Shutting Down

Postby Rahviveh » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:11 pm

tinyvessels wrote:Okay, I wasn't going to post anything, but jesus christ the tone deafness in these comments is spectacular. Look, do I think these students should take personal responsibility for their decision to go to this school, one hundred percent yes. The scam blogs have been out since 2010 and the mainstream media started covering the law school scam around that time, if not, at least by 2011. Literally all they had to do was google 'whitter law school employment stats/bar passage' and it would have told them everything they needed to know. I think a lot of these students did, but thought 'I'm gonna be the exception to the rule' and wanted to just be able to say they were going to law school, any law school.

With that being said, people really need to understand that for students coming from socioeconomically disadvantaged backgrounds, which unfortunately includes a significant amount of minorities, the law school application process isn't as easy as get a good GPA and then study your ass off for the LSAT. You guys are hung up on the 'I can't believe these dumbasses went to law school with a sub-150 scores.' Which, yes, is a terrible choice, and one I would never make personally, but you need to think more critically about these students and their backgrounds. The LSAT is learnable yes, but if you've never been conditioned, or at least exposed, in things like logical thinking or reading comprehension in a meaningful or sustained way, the 'learnability' of the test falls to the wayside.

A lot of these students have been underserved by their communities, schools, teachers, etc. since they entered formal schooling by the time they were six or seven. At a certain point, when you fall behind, its basically impossible to catch up. This has resulted in a general crisis in education in this country, and has hit the law schools the worst because these predatory low ranked schools target these students just to get tuition and continue getting their criminally large salaries.

So yes, blame these students for not believing that employment and bar passage statistics applies to them, but I understand wanting to be that person in your family or community that beats the odds, so to speak. Anyway, I have a whole other rant about education in this country in general. But until we put more focus on useful college degrees aka stem and pushing more students to trade/technical schools, instead of 'prestigious' or 'elite' academic pursuits, these scam schools won't be going away anytime soon.


The problem is that this thinking is used by the law school scam industry as justification for the existence of TTT schools



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