renc56 wrote:cavalier1138 wrote:renc56 wrote:I think the situation is very sad because I do think the people who chose Whittier truly believed that a JD would grant them an education that would break the cycle of poverty they and their families have endured. I hate the for-profit colleges for helping to put more low-income, normally POC, into degree mills with lots of debt and no job options.
While we can say, "Well, they should have known better".. when you are low-income and you have people in your community and family pushing you to attend x university, it's a completely different world than those who are aware of for-profit colleges, read ATL, and have friends and family members who currently are in law school. They're not meant to be lawyers and it'd be great if there was something done better at the college-level to educate people about law school in general.
I sympathize. I do. But it seems more than a little dangerous to basically say that poor people are too incompetent to go online (which is something that can be done at public libraries, etc., so don't come back with the "not everyone has internet" line). Literally any research outside of the school's official website would tell someone that this is a bad idea. Hell, looking at the school's official website and actually reading the employment stats would be enough for anyone who's able to read.
Even worse, I think that a lot of them probably did hear about how bad the school was. We get TTTT applicants/students who drop by these forums on a semi-regular basis. When someone has convinced themselves that they're really smart, talented, and totally cut out for the profession, they literally will not listen to anyone that suggests otherwise. You can find dozens of threads where someone get upset that anyone would dare suggest that people not chase their dreams at John Marshall (or equivalent).
Students who matriculated before the ABA cracked down on disclosure might have a stronger case, but every one of these students turned a blind eye to reality when they chose to enroll. The people running the school are terrible, but that doesn't absolve the students of all responsibility.
You have to have internet to register for the LSAT so I'm not saying that these are people who have absolutely no resources - just that the resources they have (school-wise, parents, whichever) suck. Even my parents - who are educated - really don't know the difference between law schools other than "Huh, it's not HYS so I've never heard of it" and "Stanford has a law school? Why don't you go there?"
If you have the JD = money line of thinking, why would you look at employment statistics? Even at a T-14 admitted students day, there were tons of prospective students asking about employment info or general information that was easily accessible online. I blame it on the barely legitimate law schools' advertising that says that they're #1 in x or who offer incentives like free computers/free summer course/etc.
As for the people defending John Marshall or the equivalent - that's odd. Really odd. I cannot say I get it because I don't. While there is a lot of self-blame they can take on (piled on by loans), I do feel for some of the students and I'm not absolving them of responsibility. I just wish there was more in place to educate people about law school, whether it's people who go to degree mills or those who "like to argue" and thought that they could easily make money/have prestige if they went to a lower-ranked but still respectable school. I realize people can be ignorant about a number of things but to taking advantage of that just seems cruel.
It would be wonderful if LSAC simultaneously became the entry point to law schools and a reality check on the outcomes available at given law schools, but unfortunately that wouldn't serve LSAC or the law schools that use LSAC, so it'll never happen. But if you do any reasonable amount of google searching, you're likely to at least see a link to TLS, which is arguably the best treasure trove of information available anywhere I've found about law schools and outcomes. It's not perfect considering it's essentially crowd-sourcing information, but generally there is someone on TLS who will give a generally accurate forecast of a likely outcome at x school.
There will never be a centralized source of objective reality about the legal profession, and bad advice from people who don't know anything will persist because of confirmation bias and because people in real life want to encourage people to follow their dreams, even if it's at their own peril and will likely lead to their financial demise. It's too entrenched in American culture that "following your dreams" can lead to upward mobility and success, and that is unlikely to ever change.
I agree with everything you just said and just wanted to offer that while society reaching objective reality would be fantastic in theory, it's more likely the economy has to force objective reality on us vice finding it ourselves.