Duke Vs. Cornell

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
proteinshake
Posts: 4394
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:20 pm

Re: Turning down UChicago for Duke?

Postby proteinshake » Sun Apr 16, 2017 5:09 pm

trebekismyhero wrote:OP, excluding the Duke homerism arguments. The takeaways are
1) Duke probably is the right answer, but take your Duke offer back to Michigan. If Michigan ups their scholarship offer then it is a different answer
2) Don't put all your eggs in the Charlotte/Atlanta basket, especially with no real ties

+1 to this. the COA difference between Duke and Chicago might be closer to 70K when COL is taken into account too.

and idk if bringing up SA placement is a good way to show Duke's Chicago placement power. most who want Chicago big law who got into Duke prob also got into NU and chose NU. I doubt a lot of people at Duke wanna go to Chicago but idk I'm not a student there yet.

User avatar
landshoes
is that cool?
Posts: 1180
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: Turning down UChicago for Duke?

Postby landshoes » Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:16 pm

Chicago is not that much more expensive than Duke. You don't need a car here, for one.

When I did the numbers the COL actually came out slightly cheaper for Chicago, because I wouldn't bother to have a car here. Obviously someone who would want a car no matter what would have a different calculation. But it's not nearly as simple as Duke being cheaper than Hyde Park.

I would deposit at Duke but wait to hear back from UChicago before withdrawing. If UChicago ups your scholarship, things will be different. If you want to get to Chicago, UChicago is a great school with a lot of strong alum/recent alum connections to the best firms here.

User avatar
chargers21
Posts: 2607
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Turning down UChicago for Duke?

Postby chargers21 » Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:06 pm

I am waiting to hear back from UM on my second request for reconsideration, but I am truly not interested in the school very much. It's cold and has lackluster employment numbers relative to my other top choices. If I'm going to be cold, I want to have the virtual guarantee of ideal employment that UChicago offers.

As for CoL, I live nearbyish and already have a car, so I would be bringing it to Chicago if I went. There's not even a real airport between me and Midway, so I would have to talk someone into driving me there and dropping me off and picking me up anytime I wanted to visit home if I didn't have my car. I submitted my financial aid reconsideration request, but with my numbers, I would say that it is unlikely that any movement happens.

As for putting all of my eggs into the southern legal market, I am going to temper my expectations. Out of the big markets like NYC, DC, Chi, LA, etc., I would prefer Chicago so I am happy to hear that my ties make that a good backup option if I can't go where I really want to.

Also, at ASW, I learned that there's a surprising number of people who didn't get into NU but got into UChi. Weird... Probably an age thing, though

User avatar
chargers21
Posts: 2607
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Turning down UChicago for Duke?

Postby chargers21 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:28 pm

UChi and Michigan rejected my negotiations, and I'm going to Duke!

User avatar
chargers21
Posts: 2607
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Turning down UChicago for Duke?

Postby chargers21 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:18 am

Got into NU recently, they offered me peanuts and would cost roughly the same to attend as UChi would have. That one's out the window.

Now for the real update. Cornell with 105k. NYC is the last place I'd want to live (out of cities with BL), but I want a BL transactional job more than I want to be unemployed.

User avatar
thatlawlkid
Posts: 1398
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:06 pm

Re: Turning down UChicago for Duke?

Postby thatlawlkid » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:39 am

chargers21 wrote:Got into NU recently, they offered me peanuts and would cost roughly the same to attend as UChi would have. That one's out the window.

Now for the real update. Cornell with 105k. NYC is the last place I'd want to live (out of cities with BL), but I want a BL transactional job more than I want to be unemployed.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

User avatar
chargers21
Posts: 2607
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Turning down UChicago for Duke?

Postby chargers21 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:48 am

thatlawlkid wrote:
chargers21 wrote:Got into NU recently, they offered me peanuts and would cost roughly the same to attend as UChi would have. That one's out the window.

Now for the real update. Cornell with 105k. NYC is the last place I'd want to live (out of cities with BL), but I want a BL transactional job more than I want to be unemployed.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

I'm sorry :cry: I expected a lot more than they offered

User avatar
UVA2B
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Turning down UChicago for Duke?

Postby UVA2B » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:49 am

That's a close one. If you really want the Southeast most, Duke might be worth $30k more than Cornell, but you better be all-in on that advantage. I'd personally save the $30k and go to Cornell, but I could see taking Duke if you're particularly invested in being somewhere other than NYC.

User avatar
chargers21
Posts: 2607
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Turning down UChicago for Duke?

Postby chargers21 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:36 am

UVA2B wrote:That's a close one. If you really want the Southeast most, Duke might be worth $30k more than Cornell, but you better be all-in on that advantage. I'd personally save the $30k and go to Cornell, but I could see taking Duke if you're particularly invested in being somewhere other than NYC.

I think with my rent the difference will be closer to $15k between the two, but yeah I really am not into NYC much from a long-term perspective. My market preference goes something like Charlotte >>> Atlanta > Texas (which is very unlikely with my 0 ties and that I probably won't even attempt to target this market) > Chicago > my home market in the midwest > everything else > NYC. I've just been getting a lot of mixed advice on how attainable Charlotte is. Not much info on how many SAs the big firms actually hire in Charlotte, thinking of firms like Winston & Strawn, Dechert, Mayer Brown, and Cadwalader. I think I should be good on ties to Atlanta, as I have friends and family there, but my Charlotte ties would be limited to Duke and having family previously live there.

I'm an 0L so I'm not sure at all about how grades and bidding will turn out, and how that will affect my chances at certain markets.

I'm going to try some negotiating in the meantime to see if the financials shake out any more, but coming off WLs has me unsure if that will be effective at all

User avatar
Lavitz
Posts: 3284
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 1:39 am

Re: Turning down UChicago for Duke?

Postby Lavitz » Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:52 am

I'd stick with Duke unless Cornell gives another bump. Anecdotally, you can get Atlanta or Texas from Cornell, but that doesn't mean it's easy, and I have no idea about Charlotte. It sounds like Duke would give you the ties you need to have a shot at it, whereas Cornell obviously wouldn't. In that case, I'd pay the extra $20K or so for Duke. And Duke will be the same as Cornell for NYC biglaw as a fallback.

User avatar
chargers21
Posts: 2607
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:54 pm

Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby chargers21 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:07 pm

Cornell bumped to 120k. I still am not too hip on living in NYC after graduation. Completely unsure of what to do if Duke doesn't move up their offer.

User avatar
UVA2B
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby UVA2B » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:12 pm

chargers21 wrote:Cornell bumped to 120k. I still am not too hip on living in NYC after graduation. Completely unsure of what to do if Duke doesn't move up their offer.


The price difference is getting too big, dude. Go to Cornell if Duke doesn't bump up their offer.

User avatar
chargers21
Posts: 2607
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby chargers21 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:34 pm

UVA2B wrote:
chargers21 wrote:Cornell bumped to 120k. I still am not too hip on living in NYC after graduation. Completely unsure of what to do if Duke doesn't move up their offer.


The price difference is getting too big, dude. Go to Cornell if Duke doesn't bump up their offer.

That's what I was worried to hear. For my numbers, this offer from Cornell is like the biggest I can find on LSN, and at Duke they've only gone past 75k for my numbers on LSN like once before. I'm fearing the gap will stay large. I really am not intersted in NYC very much. Is it still worth it to go even if I know that I would be unhappy living in NYC after graduation? My sister who lives nearby NYC is actually moving to Michigan this month, making me not want to live there even more. I'm fine living anywhere for the 3 years of LS, I'm just mostly concerned about afterwards

User avatar
UVA2B
Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby UVA2B » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:39 pm

chargers21 wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
chargers21 wrote:Cornell bumped to 120k. I still am not too hip on living in NYC after graduation. Completely unsure of what to do if Duke doesn't move up their offer.


The price difference is getting too big, dude. Go to Cornell if Duke doesn't bump up their offer.

That's what I was worried to hear. For my numbers, this offer from Cornell is like the biggest I can find on LSN, and at Duke they've only gone past 75k for my numbers on LSN like once before. I'm fearing the gap will stay large. I really am not intersted in NYC very much. Is it still worth it to go even if I know that I would be unhappy living in NYC after graduation? My sister who lives nearby NYC is actually moving to Michigan this month, making me not want to live there even more. I'm fine living anywhere for the 3 years of LS, I'm just mostly concerned about afterwards


I mean, yeah, a ton of Cornell grads end up in NYC. But that doesn't necessarily mean you're destined for NYC out of Cornell. Lavitz has previously mentioned that Cornell grads will end up nationally in secondary markets, even if the majority end up in NYC. If you have a compelling reason to end up in another market, you can mass mail that market and probably find something if you do reasonably well at Cornell. Cornell feeds NYC because its version of OCI has a ton of NYC firm attendance, and poor law students generally seek the path of least resistance in those situations and just go with NYC, but that does not in the least mean its your lone destiny.

-Signed a Cornell school peer law student in a completely different geographic region than where it traditionally places who mass-mailed and got something

User avatar
runinthefront
Posts: 1473
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:18 am

Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby runinthefront » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:58 pm

If you don't want to end up in NYC from Cornell, you don't have to. You should go to Cornell.

User avatar
Lavitz
Posts: 3284
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 1:39 am

Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby Lavitz » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:05 pm

Yeah, it's not like you'd be stuck in NYC. It's just hard to tell how easy it is to get certain secondary markets such as Atlanta and Charlotte from Cornell because so few people target them. But if you're diligent about it, you should be able to get a job in a secondary market. I just think Charlotte would be tough because you have no pre-existing ties.

Depending on how crushed you'd be if you didn't get Charlotte, I think I'd lean towards Cornell with this $$ difference.

User avatar
existentialcrisis
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:23 pm

Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby existentialcrisis » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:06 pm

chargers21 wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
chargers21 wrote:Cornell bumped to 120k. I still am not too hip on living in NYC after graduation. Completely unsure of what to do if Duke doesn't move up their offer.


The price difference is getting too big, dude. Go to Cornell if Duke doesn't bump up their offer.

That's what I was worried to hear. For my numbers, this offer from Cornell is like the biggest I can find on LSN, and at Duke they've only gone past 75k for my numbers on LSN like once before. I'm fearing the gap will stay large. I really am not intersted in NYC very much. Is it still worth it to go even if I know that I would be unhappy living in NYC after graduation? My sister who lives nearby NYC is actually moving to Michigan this month, making me not want to live there even more. I'm fine living anywhere for the 3 years of LS, I'm just mostly concerned about afterwards


I'd probably do Cornell. It's not necessarily clear to me how much of a boost Duke is going to give you in southern markets absent ties (although I'm open to being convinced otherwise). I'd tentatively say go to Cornell and make sure you spend your 1L summer ATL/Texas and then network/mass mail your ass off there.

User avatar
chargers21
Posts: 2607
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby chargers21 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:11 pm

I haven't researched Atlanta much because I was so dead set on Charlotte. Do any firms there pay NYC market? Which firms are good, etc.? I definitely have much better ties to Atlanta than basically any other major US city besides my state capital, but I've never actually lived there.

User avatar
runinthefront
Posts: 1473
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:18 am

Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby runinthefront » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:28 pm

Lavitz wrote:Depending on how crushed you'd be if you didn't get Charlotte, I think I'd lean towards Cornell with this $$ difference.

Anectdotally, I received CBs at four Atlanta firms during OCI (including H&K, A&B, and Kilpatrick Townsend), and I only claimed general ties to "the South" (i.e., I had neither lived nor worked nor attended school in Georgia at any time). I don't think Atlanta biglaw is necessarily difficult to attain from Cornell if that's what you're looking for.

Charlotte biglaw will be difficult to attain from any T14 though. Betting on landing in Charlotte post-grad at a market-paying firm is just lol from any T14. It's not a large market at all.

User avatar
chargers21
Posts: 2607
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby chargers21 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:35 pm

runinthefront wrote:
Lavitz wrote:Depending on how crushed you'd be if you didn't get Charlotte, I think I'd lean towards Cornell with this $$ difference.

Anectdotally, I received CBs at four Atlanta firms during OCI (including H&K, A&B, and Kilpatrick Townsend), and I only claimed general ties to "the South" (i.e., I had neither lived nor worked nor attended school in Georgia at any time). I don't think Atlanta biglaw is necessarily difficult to attain from Cornell if that's what you're looking for.

Charlotte biglaw will be difficult to attain from any T14 though. Betting on landing in Charlotte post-grad at a market-paying firm is just lol from any T14. It's not a large market at all.

Yeah, there's only 4 market paying firms in Charlotte, and 2 or 3 others that pay at the old scale. And I think all of those offices are relatively small. But what do ATL firms even pay?

User avatar
runinthefront
Posts: 1473
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:18 am

Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby runinthefront » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:37 pm

chargers21 wrote:
runinthefront wrote:
Lavitz wrote:Depending on how crushed you'd be if you didn't get Charlotte, I think I'd lean towards Cornell with this $$ difference.

Anectdotally, I received CBs at four Atlanta firms during OCI (including H&K, A&B, and Kilpatrick Townsend), and I only claimed general ties to "the South" (i.e., I had neither lived nor worked nor attended school in Georgia at any time). I don't think Atlanta biglaw is necessarily difficult to attain from Cornell if that's what you're looking for.

Charlotte biglaw will be difficult to attain from any T14 though. Betting on landing in Charlotte post-grad at a market-paying firm is just lol from any T14. It's not a large market at all.

Yeah, there's only 4 market paying firms in Charlotte, and 2 or 3 others that pay at the old scale. And I think all of those offices are relatively small. But what do ATL firms even pay?

When I was looking, all paid 145k w/ Jones Day paying 160 I think. I think that the big firms have moved to a 160 or 180 starting pay for first-year associates, though.

None of the firms were on a lockstep Cravath salary scale after a few years, and I gathered that bonuses def weren't Cravath scale. But you don't need anywhere near "NY market" to have a much better quality of life (and more $) in ATL

I didn't end up in ATL tho so i dont have more specifics for you. Whatever A&B/H&K pay is likely "market" notwithstanding some biglaw satellite offices that pay "NY market" but don't really take summers and first-year associates anyway

User avatar
Lavitz
Posts: 3284
Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 1:39 am

Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby Lavitz » Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:30 pm

runinthefront wrote:
Lavitz wrote:Depending on how crushed you'd be if you didn't get Charlotte, I think I'd lean towards Cornell with this $$ difference.

Anectdotally, I received CBs at four Atlanta firms during OCI (including H&K, A&B, and Kilpatrick Townsend), and I only claimed general ties to "the South" (i.e., I had neither lived nor worked nor attended school in Georgia at any time). I don't think Atlanta biglaw is necessarily difficult to attain from Cornell if that's what you're looking for.

You and I both know that the average Cornell student cannot expect the same results as you.

With that said, I don't think Duke will have a big edge over Cornell for Atlanta if it's coming down to that.

User avatar
proteinshake
Posts: 4394
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:20 pm

Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby proteinshake » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:08 pm

what the COA difference here? 40K after adjusting for COL?

User avatar
chargers21
Posts: 2607
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby chargers21 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:14 pm

proteinshake wrote:what the COA difference here? 40K after adjusting for COL?

Something between 35 and 40k by my estimates

User avatar
chargers21
Posts: 2607
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Duke Vs. Cornell

Postby chargers21 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:53 pm

Any negotiation tips? I've sent quite a few negotiations to date, many successful, so I should be fine. Just not sure how to navigate with a deposit already down




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: rellek and 4 guests