NEW POLL & updated (lol): Michigan (105K), Duke (105K), or Cornell (120K)? Forum

[Keilz]

PLEASE DON'T QUOTE MY WALL OF TEXT

Hello! So, I applied in early Fall, and haven't received a decision from NYU/CLS (my top choices), so I am turning my attention on where I will attend in the Fall.

I received a $105K offer to Michigan, and after negotiating, $120K to Cornell and $105K to Duke. I have about one year of COA saved. I am visiting Duke soon, and visited Michigan, Cornell, and Berkeley's ASWs.

In addition to the schools above, I also got into Northwestern ($60k scholarship), UVA ($60k), and Georgetown (nothing?)/GW ($120k). I pulled those off the table. Didn't get offered anything at Berkeley but will submit a match request before May 1st. Waitlisted at Chicago (probably W/D) and Penn (staying on).

Breakdown:

-The schools you are considering:
Michigan, Duke, Cornell (and Berkeley)

-The total amount of loans that I would have to take out:
(takes scholarships and savings into account, but not summer expenses, phone, car, tuition increases, etc. Fees are just from what is listed online, based on estimated COA only.

Michigan - $53,842 <- this is 2016-2017, so it will be more.
Duke - $73,519
Cornell - $62,263

-How you will be financing your COA:
Savings and loans

Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
NYC - significant ties (literally all of my immediate and extended family, and my long time SO). This is where I ultimately want to be. I live in the area now, and would like to continue to be there. Only other US place I'd like to be is California, which I'm not really sure if it will ever happen. If needed for work, I would also be willing to live in D.C., but I wouldn't pick it. I have ties there as well, and my undergrad is well represented there. I am also interested in working abroad for international organizations, in places like Geneva.

-Your general career goals
Definitely want to clerk, then work for International Organizations (WTO and UN), would be okay with Biglaw for matters concerning international trade to get some experience. Secondary interest is IP and working with tech companies. Also very interested in becoming a judge somehow (US Court on International Trade would be so cool. The clerk for the chief judge is a Duke alum.

Michigan:

Pros:

- Highest ranked school
- Loved the building, would like to live in the lawyer's club and have a dining plan
- Really want to do the Geneva externship
- Most resources in international law

Cons:

- Didn't like Ann arbor or the Umich campus at all, didn't have that "click" with the school
- Not sure about social scene, don't want to go to house parties
- Furthest away from home, isolated
- Cold

Cornell:

Pros:

- Close to home and my SO, which I appreciated when visiting more than I thought (3.5 hrs driving)
- Strong NYC ties and good employment numbers
- Super small class size
- Loved the campus and building
- Surrounded by nature

Cons:

- Not much set up in terms of international externships that are in my interest
- Very low clerkship numbers
- Lower ranking? Not sure if it matters, or if there are any limitations on the firms that interview, etc.?
- Cold

Duke

I can't really comment on Duke as I haven't visited yet, but here is what I'm initially interested in...

Pros:

- best employment numbers and clerkship numbers (want to clerk)
- small class size
- warm
- family members will be nearby/at Duke
- closer to home than Michigan

Cons:

- Has international programs and curricula, but not as clear cut as Michigan's. Summer institute in Geneva costs $11K

[ithrowds]

You can 100% do NYC from Duke. If you want it and you're not bottom of your class, you'll get it. CA is attainable at/around median if you have ties.

[ambrajdurbra131313]

I think Mich, Cornell, or Duke are defensible at those costs- given your goal of NYC biglaw, I would minimize my debt and go to Mich, especially because you liked Ann Arbor. That being said, Cornell and Duke give you an incredibly high shot at NYC, with Duke being superior for clerking. I would completely eliminate Cal at that cost.

[UVA2B]

If Duke matches Michigan, then Duke. If not, Michigan. If Cornell increases greater than both of those, Cornell. Think of law school more as a fungible training program in these tiers where you're going there to end up where you ultimately want. Picking Duke for more cost over Michigan or Cornell is silly, regardless of weather or other considerations. You're going there to get a job; not an experience. The experiences you enjoy (which are largely replicable at peer institutions) will be value-added, but not at increased cost.

It is seriously underrated among 0Ls picking between T13 law schools that cost should mostly be king, with geographic/specific employment/PI v. private firm taking the backseat in ~90% of these decisions. Obviously Berkeley for CA at equal cost wins over Cornell, but when you're talking the least ties-focused market in the world, pick based on cost and little else.

[Lincoln]

I went to Cornell and am a big fan, but I think Michigan edges it here based on cost. Any of C/M/D would be defensible.

[proteinshake]

Duke COA is likely closer to your Michigan and Cornell COA. there has to be a huge miscalculation. If your Michigan scholarship is 15K more than Duke, how is Duke 35K more? especially with lower COL.

[Dcc617]

Whatever is cheapest. I don't think there's a huge divergence in career outcomes here.

Also, as someone who moved from a tropical paradise to the fucking arctic for law school, you get used to it. I mean, it sucks, but it's bearable. That being said, if your Duke COA ends up being closer to Michigan (within 10K), then you would be justified picking it for weather, family, and overall happiness.

[ithrowds]

You can also rent a solid place in Durham for about ~$400-500/month (provided you have roommates). I was considering Cornell and the main downside for me was the high rent (~1k?) you have to pay to live in a decently nice place in Ithaca. At the end of the day though, they're pretty much peer schools (unless you specifically want to clerk or something) and they should each get you to NYC if that's your goal.

[proteinshake]

You can 100% do NYC from Duke. If you want it and you're not bottom of your class, you'll get it. CA is attainable at/around median if you have ties.

she said don't quote

[baseballfan660]

IF you NEED the sun do not go to Cornell. As an upstate NYer it is literally sunny under half of the days per year, with many of those sunny days coming in the summer. There has been instances where we haven't seen the sun in over a month, and quite often there are a few weeks where we don't see it at all. I assume Michigan is similar but not sure. I would go with Duke or UVA. If you are miserable somewhere your mental health will impact your ability to get good grades,and possibly your relationship and ability to interview. I would go with duke.

[Keilz]

Thanks everyone!!

Does anyone have any input on the importance of international organization externship / programs? I'm not really sure what it takes to be employed in that field.

Also dukes reported room and board is 8k v Michigans 14k, so I still don't understand the CIA differences

[Dr. Nefario]

I wouldn't say those type of externships/programs are super important. Obviously they can be fun to take part in and can create connections, but from my understanding you generally need to have pre-law school connections to get into international organizations. You might be able to work your way into a specialization within biglaw, but even that's hard to target.

[Keilz]

Duke COA is likely closer to your Michigan and Cornell COA. there has to be a huge miscalculation. If your Michigan scholarship is 15K more than Duke, how is Duke 35K more? especially with lower COL.

I'm taking the overall COA estimate directly from their websites. Duke's room/board is $8,000 and Michigan is $14,000. I don't really know why there is such a huge discrepancy.

[guynourmin]

whichever is cheapest. you have great options and I don't think anyone would fault you for taking Duke at 30k more than Michigan is you really didn't like A2, but whichever is cheapest is probably the right answer.

[Keilz]

i'm so surprised by all the Duke votes in the poll! I figured everyone would check Michigan because it's the cheapest.

Definitely need to get that scholarship request going!

[nyu2019maybeplease]

I picked Michigan over NYU for NYC, lemme know if you have questions.

[Keilz]

Update: I really liked Cornell! I also really liked how close it was to me (3.5 hours) way more than I thought I would. If I could negotiate a higher scholarship, at what point would it make sense to choose it?

Still need to visit Duke, but I'm getting excited about it as well! Not sure if I should send in a request now, or wait until after I visit. I don't know when this becomes too late.

[Keilz]

Second update, Cornell offered me $120K instead of $105K, making this decision harder!

[cron1834]

With generic NYC biglaw goals and three peer schools to choose among, you might as well go with the cheapest option. That's why Mich is winning the poll.

[Rigo]

I'd pick between Michigan and Cornell based on ease of maintaining your LDR probably. Duke if they come back with more money.

There's no absolutely terrible option other than Berkeley though. I think it will come down to a gut-level decision at the final hour for you. But congrats on a good cycle with good options!

[goldenbear2020]

With your personal ties to NYC, I think Cornell is the best option here.

[Keilz]

I'd pick between Michigan and Cornell based on ease of maintaining your LDR probably. Duke if they come back with more money.

There's no absolutely terrible option other than Berkeley though. I think it will come down to a gut-level decision at the final hour for you. But congrats on a good cycle with good options!

Thank you!

And thanks everyone for your reasoning. I am finding it helpful.

[Malarkey]

Either Michigan or Cornell. Michigan has slightly better clerkship stats, Cornell has slightly better employment stats and places more people into NYC, but the differences here are pretty small. You can't go wrong between the two. If I had to pick one, I'd choose Cornell, but this might be one of the few situations where you can pick whichever one you liked more. Congrats!

[Po$eidon]

With update, I say Cornell

[Nebby]

Cornell