Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

What should I do?

Columbia at sticker
7
5%
Northwestern freeride
141
91%
If no luck with Harvard - recycle
7
5%
 
Total votes: 155

Barrred

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby Barrred » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:46 pm

1) This is madness.

2) I'm an LA biglaw associate, and CLS does NOT guarantee you a job here. Remember that before going into $300K of debt.

3) You clearly don't even begin to understand how soul-crushing $300K of debt is. I'm serious.

4) *Unpopular Opinion Alert*: If you have your heart set on LA biglaw, you shouldnt go to NU, CLS, or try again for HLS. You should go to UCLA (where you presumably also have a full ride, where you have a great shot at LA biglaw, where you don't have to uproot your family to chase prestige, and where you are able to start making a life in the city that you want to settle down in long term.)

5) You need to get over the idea of chasing prestige and "wasting" your GPA/LSAT, that kind of thinking leads you down a dark path, trust me. You know what is really "wasting" your stats? Taking on $300K of debt to go to law school. Any law school.

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rpupkin

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby rpupkin » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:02 pm

Barrred wrote:1) This is madness.

2) I'm an LA biglaw associate, and CLS does NOT guarantee you a job here. Remember that before going into $300K of debt.

3) You clearly don't even begin to understand how soul-crushing $300K of debt is. I'm serious.

4) *Unpopular Opinion Alert*: If you have your heart set on LA biglaw, you shouldnt go to NU, CLS, or try again for HLS. You should go to UCLA (where you presumably also have a full ride, where you have a great shot at LA biglaw, where you don't have to uproot your family to chase prestige, and where you are able to start making a life in the city that you want to settle down in long term.)

5) You need to get over the idea of chasing prestige and "wasting" your GPA/LSAT, that kind of thinking leads you down a dark path, trust me. You know what is really "wasting" your stats? Taking on $300K of debt to go to law school. Any law school.

I agree with you on points 1, 2, 3 & 5. As for 4, I can't agree that--for LA big law--UCLA is a better choice than NU, particularly for someone who, like OP, already has ties to LA. But I will say this in support of your advice: If OP ends up with mediocre or worse grades, being at UCLA could help considerably with non-big-law options. In my view, that's why "UCLA with a full ride" should be on the table.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby tinyvessels » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:16 pm

Barrred wrote:1) This is madness.

2) I'm an LA biglaw associate, and CLS does NOT guarantee you a job here. Remember that before going into $300K of debt.

3) You clearly don't even begin to understand how soul-crushing $300K of debt is. I'm serious.

4) *Unpopular Opinion Alert*: If you have your heart set on LA biglaw, you shouldnt go to NU, CLS, or try again for HLS. You should go to UCLA (where you presumably also have a full ride, where you have a great shot at LA biglaw, where you don't have to uproot your family to chase prestige, and where you are able to start making a life in the city that you want to settle down in long term.)

5) You need to get over the idea of chasing prestige and "wasting" your GPA/LSAT, that kind of thinking leads you down a dark path, trust me. You know what is really "wasting" your stats? Taking on $300K of debt to go to law school. Any law school.


Literally everyone that I've ever met that works in BL or even at mid-level firms in LA will tell you just that. To go to USC/UCLA and, maybe even the lesser SoCal schools like Loyola, if you want to work in LA firms...It's only when I came to TLS that they'll tell you to go across the country to a slightly higher ranked T14 over UCLA to just go back and get at job in LA lolololol...

I have no dog in this fight in terms of BL, so I'm just going to let the TSLers gunning for BL battle this one out. I'm just don't get why if the OP was set on SoCal this isn't a debate between Stanford/Cal/UCLA/USC but instead Columbia and NU lol.
Last edited by tinyvessels on Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rpupkin

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby rpupkin » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:27 pm

tinyvessels wrote:I have no horse in this fight in terms of BL, so I'm just going to let the TSLers gunning for BL battle this one out. I'm just don't get why if the OP was set on SoCal this isn't a debate between Stanford/Cal/UCLA/USC but instead Columbia and NU lol.

It probably has something to do with the fact that OP said in his first post that he didn't get admitted to Stanford and Cal. Lol, as you would say.
Last edited by rpupkin on Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Barrred

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby Barrred » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:28 pm

tinyvessels wrote:Literally everyone that I've ever met that works in BL or even at mid-level firms in LA will tell you just that. To go to USC/UCLA and, maybe even the lesser SoCal schools like Loyola, if you want to work in LA firms...It's only when I came to TLS that they'll tell you to go across the country to a slightly higher ranked T14 over UCLA to just go back and get at job in LA lolololol...


re: bolded, I wouldn't go that far (you really have to be in the top 5% at Loyola to get LA biglaw), but your overall point is pretty accurate. Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, and USC really do clean up in this market, but it appears that Stanford/Berkeley are out of the picture for OP.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby tinyvessels » Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:35 pm

Barrred wrote:
tinyvessels wrote:Literally everyone that I've ever met that works in BL or even at mid-level firms in LA will tell you just that. To go to USC/UCLA and, maybe even the lesser SoCal schools like Loyola, if you want to work in LA firms...It's only when I came to TLS that they'll tell you to go across the country to a slightly higher ranked T14 over UCLA to just go back and get at job in LA lolololol...


re: bolded, I wouldn't go that far (you really have to be in the top 5% at Loyola to get LA biglaw), but your overall point is pretty accurate. Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, and USC really do clean up in this market, but it appears that Stanford/Berkeley are out of the picture for OP.


Yeah, they did mention you would have to be pretty exceptional to get BL from there. But if you have more modest goals then it would do the job well enough. And yes, it does look like Stanford/Cal is out, but I'm surprised that UCLA/USC aren't on the table if they got Columbia.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby Npret » Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:28 pm

Didn't OP say he got a full ride at UCLA but it would be a waste of his stats for him to go there? I recall him saying that but I'm not going back through the thread to find it.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby Pure Applesauce » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:25 pm

FLSFHYS wrote: I'm in at UCLA, but can't shake the feeling it would be kind of a waste with my stats



Didn't say full ride but I wonder what he has been offered

TBH I think it would be a waste of OPs stats to pay $300k

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby Npret » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:38 am

Pure Applesauce wrote:
FLSFHYS wrote: I'm in at UCLA, but can't shake the feeling it would be kind of a waste with my stats



Didn't say full ride but I wonder what he has been offered

TBH I think it would be a waste of OPs stats to pay $300k

Thanks looks like UCLA was dismissed quickly as not good enough. I think that OP doesn't grasp that Northwestern is a great school and a full ride is an accomplishment. I know I've been maybe too harsh with OP but it seems impossible to get through to him.

I just don't see anything more Northwestern could do to get him to attend. I'm leaning a bit more towards him retaking for Harvard because that's where he wants to go. He certainly isn't alone in turning down huge scholarships for major debt at another school. Some people just won't listen or don't understand money or both.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby Barrred » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:32 pm

Pure Applesauce wrote:TBH I think it would be a waste of OPs stats to pay $300k


Exactly. This should be emphasized much more on TLS. It's not prestigious to pay more than $200K for a law degree.

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rpupkin

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby rpupkin » Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:24 pm

Barrred wrote:
Pure Applesauce wrote:TBH I think it would be a waste of OPs stats to pay $300k


Exactly. This should be emphasized much more on TLS. It's not prestigious to pay more than $200K for a law degree.

LOL

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby Barrred » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:21 pm

FLSFHYS wrote:But this Pritzker freeride... Am I crazy to want to turn it down?



Updates!?!?!
Last edited by Barrred on Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby star fox » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:24 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Barrred wrote:
Pure Applesauce wrote:TBH I think it would be a waste of OPs stats to pay $300k


Exactly. This should be emphasized much more on TLS. It's not prestigious to pay more than $200K for a law degree.

LOL

$300k is only fiat, prestige is something real.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby dabigchina » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:28 pm

Really hope OP isn't going to pay sticker at CLS for CA biglaw. NU has just as good of a reputation as Columbia in California.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby Blackfish » Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:39 pm

Pure Applesauce wrote:TBH I think it would be a waste of OPs stats to pay $300k


Forget stats, it would be a waste of your life to go into $300K in debt for law school. ANY law school.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby badlefthook » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:20 pm

Po$eidon wrote:
Pomeranian wrote:Also, Columbia has a very competitive, cold and cutthroat vibe. Whereas Northwestern is "Midwestern nice" and has a very professional vibe due to the work experience factor in admissions.


I've heard stories from Columbia that were :shock:


Can we hear?

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:34 pm

dabigchina wrote:Really hope OP isn't going to pay sticker at CLS for CA biglaw. NU has just as good of a reputation as Columbia in California.


Well that's not really true. At least not in law (but it's not true outside of law either.) But the general reputation of the school is not the point when there are hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby dabigchina » Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:56 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
dabigchina wrote:Really hope OP isn't going to pay sticker at CLS for CA biglaw. NU has just as good of a reputation as Columbia in California.


Well that's not really true. At least not in law (but it's not true outside of law either.) But the general reputation of the school is not the point when there are hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line.

I wasn't talking about reputation as in 0L circlejerking over preftige. I was talking about placement. My experience is with Norcal corporate, but I've encountered way more NU attorneys than CLS. I'm not going to address the outside of law argument because lay prestige has been hashed out a million times before.

Regardless, it's silly to say OP can get CA biglaw from the top 1/3 at CLS but not from NU. There might be a marginal difference at median but neither school can guarantee you CA biglaw in that case. He should absolutely go with the money.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:09 pm

dabigchina wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
dabigchina wrote:Really hope OP isn't going to pay sticker at CLS for CA biglaw. NU has just as good of a reputation as Columbia in California.


Well that's not really true. At least not in law (but it's not true outside of law either.) But the general reputation of the school is not the point when there are hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line.

I wasn't talking about reputation as in 0L circlejerking over preftige. I was talking about placement. My experience is with Norcal corporate, but I've encountered way more NU attorneys than CLS. I'm not going to address the outside of law argument because lay prestige has been hashed out a million times before.

Regardless, it's silly to say OP can get CA biglaw from the top 1/3 at CLS but not from NU. There might be a marginal difference at median but neither school can guarantee you CA biglaw in that case. He should absolutely go with the money.


Suffice to say your experience is not universal, and neither is mine. I know that at the firms I've worked at in California, those two schools are not regarded entirely equally for the purpose of OCI/hiring and GPA cutoffs.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby Po$eidon » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:30 pm

badlefthook wrote:
Po$eidon wrote:
Pomeranian wrote:Also, Columbia has a very competitive, cold and cutthroat vibe. Whereas Northwestern is "Midwestern nice" and has a very professional vibe due to the work experience factor in admissions.


I've heard stories from Columbia that were :shock:


Can we hear?


Friend from NYU had a bestie at Columbia who was working on a final in the library on her computer, went to the bathroom, came back, and at some point in that absence another CLSer had gone on that friend's computer and deleted her final. Hearsay? Definitely. But that's scary AF hearsay

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby dabigchina » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:32 pm

Po$eidon wrote:
badlefthook wrote:
Po$eidon wrote:
Pomeranian wrote:Also, Columbia has a very competitive, cold and cutthroat vibe. Whereas Northwestern is "Midwestern nice" and has a very professional vibe due to the work experience factor in admissions.


I've heard stories from Columbia that were :shock:


Can we hear?


Friend from NYU had a bestie at Columbia who was working on a final in the library on her computer, went to the bathroom, came back, and at some point in that absence another CLSer had gone on that friend's computer and deleted her final. Hearsay? Definitely. But that's scary AF hearsay

lol. I would say there are plenty of valid reasons to choose a school other than CLS. Stories like this should not be one of them. I have never heard of anyone fucking over anyone else like this.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby FLSFHYS » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:24 pm

Deposited at NU today (deadline), but still in the negotiation process with CLS. I'll wait for their aid offer before making a final decision.
In regards to doing research about LA placement prospects, I reached out to NU admissions with the same information I posted here and asked to get in touch with recent NU alumni in LA to disprove it. They sent me contact info for 5 alumni in V50-V100 firms, and guess what? All graduated "cum laude" at the very least (which looks to more or less correlate with the top third of the class), and two graduated "magna". Ironically, I also got partial confirmation of the "10-15%" quote that everyone here was bashing on, since one of the grads was actually employed at the firm in question and said that his GPA put him in the "top 5-10%" of his class. Surveying that company's website showed a dearth of NU grads as well, especially in relation to any of HSCCN schools.
A further survey of other large firms in LA showed that most of the recent NU grads (last five years) graduated "cum laude" or better. A similar search for recent CLS alumni produced a much higher number of people in general, and a much lower proportion of people who graduated with honors. It seems that more prestigious firms do indeed have a cutoff close to 10-15%, and less prestigious ones look at the top 30%, but the cutoff looks to be real, at least for people who are looking for employment right after graduation, and not after a few years of work experience elsewhere and/or clerkship.
Granted, I do agree that CLS at sticker is not nearly as good of a deal as a free NU, but if I can negotiate at least close to half tuition from CLS, their significant boost to placement in LA (and it is significant, according to my findings) might make it worth it for me. Otherwise, I'll just have to be working my ass off at NU to at least get into the top third to have a chance at some of the large LA firms upon graduation. I'll keep you guys posted about future developments.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby dabigchina » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:02 pm

If you're targeting CA biglaw you're going to need to work your ass off anywhere.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby Npret » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:17 pm

dabigchina wrote:If you're targeting CA biglaw you're going to need to work your ass off anywhere.

That just aren't that many jobs there tbh.

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Re: Columbia sticker vs NU freeride vs Retake and Recycle

Postby rpupkin » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:51 pm

Npret wrote:
dabigchina wrote:If you're targeting CA biglaw you're going to need to work your ass off anywhere.

That just aren't that many jobs there tbh.

I've seen this assertion in various forms in this thread, and it's not true. There are more big law jobs in California than any other state aside from New York. The state has two major markets: LA and SF/SV.

California is not Georgia or Minnesota: it's a huge state with a ton of big law jobs. It's not particularly hard for a T14 student to get a job here. There are no guarantees--and NYC will always be the easiest market for students looking for big-law jobs--but California isn't some special niche market.



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