Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
lichtblickz
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby lichtblickz » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:48 pm

Racism is rare at UMN but inclusion is also rare. The student board has been all-white for several years as far as I know. There is very little communication between LLM students and JD students, and little communication students between international students and local students.

One of the prevalent views of the international students among the local students: “they come here to send money to the school but are not quite qualified.” I heard several times in the class that the local students snickered at another international student who answered a question at class with an accent... More of them just show the facial expression of impatience.

The local legal market for international students in Minnesota is not strong. NONE of the several dozens of international students (JD, LLM) found a law-firm work in MInnesota. Some of them found work in California and New York though. Even if you choose to work on immigration law, there are not many opportunities in the state as there is not much international business or many immigrants.

Agree or not, Minneapolis are is a pretty good area, but the law school is not very inclusive (compared to other east/west coast law schools I heard about). Though most professors are friendly, the new dean has done little efforts on inclusion or assistance to ethical/international students. The culture is just like that.

So my advice: think twice, if you are not of the local culture here.

cavalier1138
Posts: 4667
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:39 pm

...were a lot of people going to Minnesota expecting a diverse population?

lichtblickz
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby lichtblickz » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:06 pm

No. However, people come to the law school expecting an inclusive environment and not feeling as an outsider everyday.

But you are also right. If you expect a diverse culture, that is not an option.

User avatar
OneHandedEconomist
Posts: 263
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:29 am

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby OneHandedEconomist » Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:11 pm

I feel like there are 100 other reasons not to do an LLM at UMN.

lichtblickz
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby lichtblickz » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:21 pm

OneHandedEconomist wrote:I feel like there are 100 other reasons not to do an LLM at UMN.


Not sure whether there are 100 as I did not study at another law school.

But it is snowing here man... Right now... snowing... winter is coming back.

grades??
Posts: 984
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:55 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby grades?? » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:26 pm

lichtblickz wrote:
OneHandedEconomist wrote:I feel like there are 100 other reasons not to do an LLM at UMN.


Not sure whether there are 100 as I did not study at another law school.

But it is snowing here man... Right now... snowing... winter is coming back.


Did you literally not google Minnesota weather before going? That is on you.

lichtblickz
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby lichtblickz » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:41 pm

grades?? wrote:
lichtblickz wrote:
OneHandedEconomist wrote:I feel like there are 100 other reasons not to do an LLM at UMN.


Not sure whether there are 100 as I did not study at another law school.

But it is snowing here man... Right now... snowing... winter is coming back.


Did you literally not google Minnesota weather before going? That is on you.


Well yes...

I was deluded seeing people on their shorts this morning... Now I realized that I am not a standard Minnesotan.

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 10181
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:47 pm

Just curious, why did you choose to pursue an LLM at the University of Minnesota? What was the value proposition of that degree for you?

User avatar
waldorf
Posts: 2376
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:28 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby waldorf » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:49 pm

So you're shocked that in Minnesota, there is little diversity and a long winter.

I feel as if your problems could've been avoided with even a smidgen of research...

grades??
Posts: 984
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:55 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby grades?? » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:52 pm

bwaldorf wrote:So you're shocked that in Minnesota, there is little diversity and a long winter.

I feel as if your problems could've been avoided with even a smidgen of research...


I mean literally go to wikipedia and look at the Minnesota entry. In 2 seconds of typing and 1 click, I found out that its cold as shit and 90%+ white. I have no idea what OP was thinking would happen or why OP simply didn't just google and click once.....

Plus I agree with other posters. What does an llm from UM do for you? I can't imagine that degree is respected internationally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota

lichtblickz
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby lichtblickz » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:53 pm

bwaldorf wrote:So you're shocked that in Minnesota, there is little diversity and a long winter.

I feel as if your problems could've been avoided with even a smidgen of research...


1. The purpose of this article is to give advice to OTHERS. So others (International Students, African American, Asian, Latino students) would know even without your so-called "smidgen of research."

2. However I would have researched, I could not have imagined that here many local JD students barely talk with international JD and LLMs, not to mention other inclusion matters.
Last edited by lichtblickz on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lichtblickz
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby lichtblickz » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:56 pm

grades?? wrote:
bwaldorf wrote:So you're shocked that in Minnesota, there is little diversity and a long winter.

I feel as if your problems could've been avoided with even a smidgen of research...


I mean literally go to wikipedia and look at the Minnesota entry. In 2 seconds of typing and 1 click, I found out that its cold as shit and 90%+ white. I have no idea what OP was thinking would happen or why OP simply didn't just google and click once.....

Plus I agree with other posters. What does an llm from UM do for you? I can't imagine that degree is respected internationally.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota


Hey do not take it serious about the weather. I just took it for fun.

And I am not a LLM. And I do not agree with your opinion about LLM. They are also lawyers in other countries and deserve respect.

lichtblickz
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby lichtblickz » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:00 pm

jbagelboy wrote:Just curious, why did you choose to pursue an LLM at the University of Minnesota? What was the value proposition of that degree for you?


See other posts. Why the law school provides the degree if there is no value proposition for people?
Last edited by lichtblickz on Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

grades??
Posts: 984
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:55 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby grades?? » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:04 pm

lichtblickz wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Just curious, why did you choose to pursue an LLM at the University of Minnesota? What was the value proposition of that degree for you?


See other posts. Why the law school have the degree if there is no value proposition for people?


Because they can make a ton of money off sucker students. See eg Cooley, Ave Maria, and other law schools for example.

lichtblickz
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby lichtblickz » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:07 pm

grades?? wrote:
lichtblickz wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Just curious, why did you choose to pursue an LLM at the University of Minnesota? What was the value proposition of that degree for you?


See other posts. Why the law school have the degree if there is no value proposition for people?


Because they can make a ton of money off sucker students. See eg Cooley, Ave Maria, and other law schools for example.


Are those law school relevant to the topic? Thus all students that are not local do not deserve respect?

User avatar
UVA2B
Posts: 3145
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby UVA2B » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:17 pm

I'm sorry you haven't felt included as an international student at UMN, that really sucks. And I sincerely hope there isn't some level of systemic racism prevalent there, because institutional racism categorically sucks. But in all fairness to the institution, what you've described is mostly a sour personal experience that colors everything you see. You could be spot on, but from what I just read, you are describing an anecdotal experience in your law school community. This is akin to posting online how your ex (or mom, or dad, etc.) has treated you poorly. It's sad, but it's hardly suggestive of some endemic problem at UMN.

I respect your feeling of not being included at UMN and in Minnesota, but this post feels too personally motivated to ring true on a structural level. I'm sorry you feel this way though, sincerely.

Npret
Posts: 1163
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:42 am

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby Npret » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:28 pm

OP it's fine to share your experience. Sorry it has been not what you expected from a professional school.

There was a thread here a few years ago where a then current student was extremely harsh about the school but for other reasons. So you are not alone in expressing unhappiness with this school.

User avatar
UVA2B
Posts: 3145
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby UVA2B » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:33 pm

Npret wrote:OP it's fine to share your experience. Sorry it has been not what you expected from a professional school.

There was a thread here a few years ago where a then current student was extremely harsh about the school but for other reasons. So you are not alone in expressing unhappiness with this school.


In case I wasn't clear, I absolutely believe your experience is worth sharing. I just wanted to contextualize what I read because some of the claims are pretty incendiary.

lichtblickz
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby lichtblickz » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:37 pm

UVA2B wrote:I'm sorry you haven't felt included as an international student at UMN, that really sucks. And I sincerely hope there isn't some level of systemic racism prevalent there, because institutional racism categorically sucks. But in all fairness to the institution, what you've described is mostly a sour personal experience that colors everything you see. You could be spot on, but from what I just read, you are describing an anecdotal experience in your law school community. This is akin to posting online how your ex (or mom, or dad, etc.) has treated you poorly. It's sad, but it's hardly suggestive of some endemic problem at UMN.

I respect your feeling of not being included at UMN and in Minnesota, but this post feels too personally motivated to ring true on a structural level. I'm sorry you feel this way though, sincerely.


Thank you very much for understanding and I agree that those experiences are quite anecdotal. Some of the experiences do not hurt my feeling about other local students who are kind and open, and do not see people with color.

However, If you ask 10 international students (I have actually discussed with quite a few, not just me that is "colored"), I would say 8 out 10 would not agree that inclusion is good here. I simply hope the law school could do more to care about inclusion instead of letting the law school goes with singled culture.
Last edited by lichtblickz on Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lichtblickz
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby lichtblickz » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:41 pm

Npret wrote:OP it's fine to share your experience. Sorry it has been not what you expected from a professional school.

There was a thread here a few years ago where a then current student was extremely harsh about the school but for other reasons. So you are not alone in expressing unhappiness with this school.


Thank you for understanding.

Haven't read the previous posts but I am not alone with lots of international students... with the same opinion... who do not post and see the thread.

User avatar
UVA2B
Posts: 3145
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby UVA2B » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:45 pm

lichtblickz wrote:
UVA2B wrote:I'm sorry you haven't felt included as an international student at UMN, that really sucks. And I sincerely hope there isn't some level of systemic racism prevalent there, because institutional racism categorically sucks. But in all fairness to the institution, what you've described is mostly a sour personal experience that colors everything you see. You could be spot on, but from what I just read, you are describing an anecdotal experience in your law school community. This is akin to posting online how your ex (or mom, or dad, etc.) has treated you poorly. It's sad, but it's hardly suggestive of some endemic problem at UMN.

I respect your feeling of not being included at UMN and in Minnesota, but this post feels too personally motivated to ring true on a structural level. I'm sorry you feel this way though, sincerely.


Thank you very much for understanding and I agree that those experiences are quite anecdotal. Some of the experiences do not hurt my feeling about other local students who are kind and open, do not see people with color.

However, If you ask 10 international students (I have actually discussed with quite a few, not just me that is "colored"), I would say 8 out 10 would not agree that inclusion is good here. I simply hope the law school could do more to care about inclusion instead of letting the law school goes with singled culture.


I'm sorry, are you trying to politicize my use of the word "color?" All I meant by that is you're seeing your experience through your own lens, and as such you might see things differently based on your own experience. I didn't say you're wrong, and I didn't affirm you're right, I just pointed out that it's possible your negative impressions are personal to you. If you have substantive opinions from others that international students are treated poorly at UMN, that's different and worth this public service announcement.

All I'm asking for here is you quantifying actual instances where you were mistreated by fellow students or by the institution. If the experience of international students at UMN is that bad, you should have ample specific examples to prove that point to reinforce your claim.

User avatar
waldorf
Posts: 2376
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:28 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby waldorf » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:47 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Npret wrote:OP it's fine to share your experience. Sorry it has been not what you expected from a professional school.

There was a thread here a few years ago where a then current student was extremely harsh about the school but for other reasons. So you are not alone in expressing unhappiness with this school.


In case I wasn't clear, I absolutely believe your experience is worth sharing. I just wanted to contextualize what I read because some of the claims are pretty incendiary.


I agree, but seriously, if you're looking for diversity, specifically on an international level, what the heck are you expecting at Minnesota? I don't have much sympathy for those who graduated six figures in debt from Cooley due to a lack of research and I don't have much sympathy here, either. It seems to me that OP didn't do much research before attending and is now *shocked* that UMN has fewer international students and less inclusion than a school in a larger city on a coast.

I'm sorry you have had a bad experience, but if you wanted diversity and a warm climate.. well, I'm not sure why you're at MN.

lichtblickz
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby lichtblickz » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:52 pm

bwaldorf wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Npret wrote:OP it's fine to share your experience. Sorry it has been not what you expected from a professional school.

There was a thread here a few years ago where a then current student was extremely harsh about the school but for other reasons. So you are not alone in expressing unhappiness with this school.


In case I wasn't clear, I absolutely believe your experience is worth sharing. I just wanted to contextualize what I read because some of the claims are pretty incendiary.


I agree, but seriously, if you're looking for diversity, specifically on an international level, what the heck are you expecting at Minnesota? I don't have much sympathy for those who graduated six figures in debt from Cooley due to a lack of research and I don't have much sympathy here, either. It seems to me that OP didn't do much research before attending and is now *shocked* that UMN has fewer international students and less inclusion than a school in a larger city on a coast.

I'm sorry you have had a bad experience, but if you wanted diversity and a warm climate.. well, I'm not sure why you're at MN.


You could blame me. Your conclusion may also be correct. "if you wanted diversity and a warm climate.. well, I'm not sure why you're at MN."

Give up UMN, some people let you just give up inclusion and diversity.
Last edited by lichtblickz on Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

lichtblickz
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby lichtblickz » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:54 pm

UVA2B wrote:
lichtblickz wrote:
UVA2B wrote:I'm sorry you haven't felt included as an international student at UMN, that really sucks. And I sincerely hope there isn't some level of systemic racism prevalent there, because institutional racism categorically sucks. But in all fairness to the institution, what you've described is mostly a sour personal experience that colors everything you see. You could be spot on, but from what I just read, you are describing an anecdotal experience in your law school community. This is akin to posting online how your ex (or mom, or dad, etc.) has treated you poorly. It's sad, but it's hardly suggestive of some endemic problem at UMN.

I respect your feeling of not being included at UMN and in Minnesota, but this post feels too personally motivated to ring true on a structural level. I'm sorry you feel this way though, sincerely.


Thank you very much for understanding and I agree that those experiences are quite anecdotal. Some of the experiences do not hurt my feeling about other local students who are kind and open, do not see people with color.

However, If you ask 10 international students (I have actually discussed with quite a few, not just me that is "colored"), I would say 8 out 10 would not agree that inclusion is good here. I simply hope the law school could do more to care about inclusion instead of letting the law school goes with singled culture.


I'm sorry, are you trying to politicize my use of the word "color?" All I meant by that is you're seeing your experience through your own lens, and as such you might see things differently based on your own experience. I didn't say you're wrong, and I didn't affirm you're right, I just pointed out that it's possible your negative impressions are personal to you. If you have substantive opinions from others that international students are treated poorly at UMN, that's different and worth this public service announcement.

All I'm asking for here is you quantifying actual instances where you were mistreated by fellow students or by the institution. If the experience of international students at UMN is that bad, you should have ample specific examples to prove that point to reinforce your claim.


Thank you for the explanation. Appreciate it.

Just wanna say many international students as well as students of other ethnical groups share the same view.

User avatar
waldorf
Posts: 2376
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:28 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Postby waldorf » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:56 pm

lichtblickz wrote:
bwaldorf wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Npret wrote:OP it's fine to share your experience. Sorry it has been not what you expected from a professional school.

There was a thread here a few years ago where a then current student was extremely harsh about the school but for other reasons. So you are not alone in expressing unhappiness with this school.


In case I wasn't clear, I absolutely believe your experience is worth sharing. I just wanted to contextualize what I read because some of the claims are pretty incendiary.


I agree, but seriously, if you're looking for diversity, specifically on an international level, what the heck are you expecting at Minnesota? I don't have much sympathy for those who graduated six figures in debt from Cooley due to a lack of research and I don't have much sympathy here, either. It seems to me that OP didn't do much research before attending and is now *shocked* that UMN has fewer international students and less inclusion than a school in a larger city on a coast.

I'm sorry you have had a bad experience, but if you wanted diversity and a warm climate.. well, I'm not sure why you're at MN.


You could blame me. Your conclusion may also be correct. "if you wanted diversity and a warm climate.. well, I'm not sure why you're at MN."

Give up UMN, many people let you give up.


I'm not trying to blame you. I sincerely apologize if you have been a victim of racism or discrimination because that is not acceptable on any level. Like others have said, I truly hope there is not a systematic problem and if there is, the school's administration should be working to fix it.

However, you also need to be realistic. If you wanted to be surrounded by international students, again, why would you go to Minnesota? I don't blame you, but I also think it's rather silly to expect sympathy when a smidgen of research could have quite possibly avoided you the problems you seem to be having.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Lexigator, pancakes3 and 6 guests