Columbia v. UVA($$)

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Columbia v. UVA($$)

Columbia
2
6%
UVA
29
94%
 
Total votes: 31

tagomago

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Columbia v. UVA($$)

Postby tagomago » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:20 pm

I'm trying to decide between Columbia and UVA, which gave me a $30K/year scholarship. I also am from Virginia, which would give me in-state tuition. That takes off about another $5K/year. This all works out to roughly mean that Columbia would cost about $200k and UVA would be about $50, which could potentially leave me with no debt.

Goals:
I don't really have definite goals as to what area I want to work in. The areas that I do have an interest in are environmental, constitutional, international, and human rights. I'm also slightly interested in politics, which gives an edge to UVA, as being from Virginia would help a career in that area.
I do have two definite goals. I'd like to clerk at the highest level possible, as well as have the option of ending up in California after graduation.

Also, I'm WL at Harvard and Chicago. Pretty sure I'd go to Harvard if let in, not decided on Chicago. So I'd love advice about that as well.

Thanks for your input.
Last edited by tagomago on Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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existentialcrisis

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Re: Columbia v. UVA($$)

Postby existentialcrisis » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:25 pm

Do not pay sticker at cls.

I will also add that I don't think it's a good idea to go to law school without an idea of what being a lawyer actually entails and a sense of the path you want to take.

tagomago

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Re: Columbia v. UVA($$)

Postby tagomago » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:32 pm

existentialcrisis wrote:Do not pay sticker at cls.

I will also add that I don't think it's a good idea to go to law school without an idea of what being a lawyer actually entails and a sense of the path you want to take.


Thanks for the feedback. I definitely think what you're saying about not having a sense of a path being is very valid, however many of the law students I've talked to have said they were not sure what area they wanted to work in until the end of their 1L or even 2L years. Is this contradictory to what you said or maybe along the same lines?

Also, I do have a very rough sense of a path for myself after law school, which includes working for a firm for about 2 years, then clerking, and then transitioning to a public interest job. Would you consider that a sense of a path?

Also, while I do not know the area I want to work in, I am aware of what being a lawyer actually entails.

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Mullens

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Re: Columbia v. UVA($$)

Postby Mullens » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:33 pm

tagomago wrote:I'm trying to decide between Columbia and UVA, which gave me a $30K/year scholarship. I also am from Virginia, which would give me in-state tuition. That takes off about another $5K/year. This all works out to roughly mean that Columbia would

Goals:
I don't really have definite goals as to what area I want to work in. The areas that I do have an interest in are environmental, constitutional, international, and human rights. I'm also slightly interested in politics, which gives an edge to UVA, as being from Virginia would help a career in that area.
I do have two definite goals. I'd like to clerk at the highest level possible, as well as have the option of ending up in California after graduation.

Also, I'm WL at Harvard and Chicago. Pretty sure I'd go to Harvard if let in, not decided on Chicago. So I'd love advice about that as well.

Thanks for your input.


Sticker at CLS is over $300,000. It's not worth it. Go to UVA.

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existentialcrisis

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Re: Columbia v. UVA($$)

Postby existentialcrisis » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:44 pm

tagomago wrote:
existentialcrisis wrote:Do not pay sticker at cls.

I will also add that I don't think it's a good idea to go to law school without an idea of what being a lawyer actually entails and a sense of the path you want to take.


Thanks for the feedback. I definitely think what you're saying about not having a sense of a path being is very valid, however many of the law students I've talked to have said they were not sure what area they wanted to work in until the end of their 1L or even 2L years. Is this contradictory to what you said or maybe along the same lines?

Also, I do have a very rough sense of a path for myself after law school, which includes working for a firm for about 2 years, then clerking, and then transitioning to a public interest job. Would you consider that a sense of a path?



Kind of. Clerking from UVA is relatively realistic, and working for a firm is very realistic. I guess I just meant that constitutional law and human rights gigs are unicorns, and you're not going to be getting a job in either after 2 years of big law, probably won't be able to ever.

If your goal is to clerk --> firm --> transition to government after a few years, this seems like a realistic and achievable goal, and you'd be paying a relatively reasonable sum at UVA to help you achieve it.

What I am always worried about in these threads (and I am certainly projecting a bit) is that a lot of people, myself included, head to law school with incredibly vague goals and a very loose sense of what practice is actually like. Many people go very deep into debt to pursue these vague goals. I'm not saying this is necessarily you, but that's why I asked the question that I asked.

Rigo

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Re: Columbia v. UVA($$)

Postby Rigo » Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:46 pm

Enjoy biglaw. UVA. I'd still do UVA even if you get Harvard, but let's not kid ourselves.

Nebby

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Re: Columbia v. UVA($$)

Postby Nebby » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:38 am

What troll voted CLS. UVA has great clerkship placement and is a peer in biglaw placement with CLS. Congrats!

kingpin101

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Re: Columbia v. UVA($$)

Postby kingpin101 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:39 am

Nebby wrote:What troll voted CLS. UVA has great clerkship placement and is a peer in biglaw placement with CLS. Congrats!

Bit of a stretch IMO.

Nebby

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Re: Columbia v. UVA($$)

Postby Nebby » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:40 am

kingpin101 wrote:
Nebby wrote:What troll voted CLS. UVA has great clerkship placement and is a peer in biglaw placement with CLS. Congrats!

Bit of a stretch IMO.

Lol

dabigchina

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Re: Columbia v. UVA($$)

Postby dabigchina » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:53 am

there's literally no reason for anyone to take sticker at CLS over MVP with money.

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armc808

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Re: Columbia v. UVA($$)

Postby armc808 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:06 am

tagomago wrote:Thanks for the feedback. I definitely think what you're saying about not having a sense of a path being is very valid, however many of the law students I've talked to have said they were not sure what area they wanted to work in until the end of their 1L or even 2L years. Is this contradictory to what you said or maybe along the same lines?

Also, I do have a very rough sense of a path for myself after law school, which includes working for a firm for about 2 years, then clerking, and then transitioning to a public interest job. Would you consider that a sense of a path?

Also, while I do not know the area I want to work in, I am aware of what being a lawyer actually entails.

Many people don't know exactly what they want to do going into law school, and many who think they know end up changing their minds in law school when they come into contact with an area of the law they weren't previously familiar with but find that they enjoy. It's okay to not know what exactly you want to do yet, and you shouldn't let anyone make you feel bad for not having your career planned out as a 0L.

That said, I'd say UVA is the better choice here simply because I can't think of anything you could do coming out of CLS that you wouldn't be able to do coming out of UVA (based on the info provided). UVA's recent employment stats for biglaw and clerkships are pretty damn good, and as you mentioned, they're a powerful brand when it comes to government (particularly in the DC market). If it were me, I'd take the money at UVA.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Columbia v. UVA($$)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:44 am

armc808 wrote:Many people don't know exactly what they want to do going into law school, and many who think they know end up changing their minds in law school when they come into contact with an area of the law they weren't previously familiar with but find that they enjoy. It's okay to not know what exactly you want to do yet, and you shouldn't let anyone make you feel bad for not having your career planned out as a 0L.

I agree with this, to the extent that 0L have a realistic idea of what legal careers are even out there. It's fine not to be sure whether you'd want transactional/lit, biglaw v. small, etc., and I definitely agree that people change their minds a lot along the way (I didn't decide on what I'm doing now till after graduation). But I also think people need to learn about whether, for instance, international human rights law is actually a thing (technically yes) and whether they have any of the required background for it (probably not). Or to put it another way, a lot of the fields that sound sexy to non-lawyers (like international human rights) are exactly the fields where you do have to planned everything out and laid the foundation leading up to law school.

So as long as 0Ls have realistic expectations about what kinds of jobs they can get coming out of school (especially out of the schools they're looking at), and are fine picking among those, they're good. But some jobs are more unrealistic than others, and require more planning/preparation than others. It's a lot harder to simply decide 3L that you'd like to pursue international human rights after all - you're much better off gunning for that from day 1.

(Not saying the OP is thinking this way, just using international human rights as an example.)



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