St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

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Keekee1231

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:21 pm

-___- so Rutgers at in state tuition? Lol

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Npret » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:21 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:So basically the answer is go to Brooklyn over St. John's but beware of stipulations (even though 80% seems very reasonable). What if I threw Rutgers Newark in the mix with an in state tuition? Still Brooklyn?


No law school should have stipulations on merit scholarships other than remaining in good standing. You should get those removed at the very least. Schools put those stipulations in knowing that students will lose the scholarship but they are unlikely to drop out.

I'm also concerned that Brooklyn does not report salary information.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Npret » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:24 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:-___- so Rutgers at in state tuition? Lol


Well neither Brooklyn or St Johns.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:26 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:$0.

Good shit.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:26 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:-___- so Rutgers at in state tuition? Lol

You'd have to move to NJ for this. Were you going to save money by living at home in NYC?

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:30 pm

I think I'm leaving this thread more confused than I was when I posted it. I am attending regardless, it just depends where. I don't think these schools with some $$ are so abysmal that they're not worth attending at all/ skipping entering legal profession as a whole. I'll effectively have no debt. So I think these answers are very bold.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:31 pm

Im from NJ so I could commute from home I don't want to live anywhere near Newark lol.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:32 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:I think I'm leaving this thread more confused than I was when I posted it. I am attending regardless, it just depends where. I don't think these schools with some $$ are so abysmal that they're not worth attending at all/ skipping entering legal profession as a whole. I'll effectively have no debt. So I think these answers are very bold.

Have you tried negoiating with these schools?
For starters, say you're concerned about the stips and are very uneasy about attending a school on scholarship where a big chunk of the student body loses them.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:35 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:Im from NJ so I could commute from home I don't want to live anywhere near Newark lol.

Why weren't you considering Rutgers originally?

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UVA2B

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby UVA2B » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:36 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:I think I'm leaving this thread more confused than I was when I posted it. I am attending regardless, it just depends where. I don't think these schools with some $$ are so abysmal that they're not worth attending at all/ skipping entering legal profession as a whole. I'll effectively have no debt. So I think these answers are very bold.


You're more confused because everyone is telling you its a bad idea? What's confusing about that? You don't have debt (absent losing scholarships or having to pay for CoL in NJ as a very real possibility that you'd have to cover), and your options aren't likely to get you where you want to be professionally. You can do it if you're positive you want it, but don't pretend you're making a good choice. You're ignoring the advice of others who have made similar decisions as you on varying scales and understand the calculus you should be performing, and throwing your hands up as if, "well other people say it's a bad idea, but I think it's a good idea. I don't know what to make of that!"

I was only half-kidding when I mentioned this becoming a six page monstrosity, but you reached irrational conclusions based on rational, no skin in the game, well-intentioned people trying to help you. We can't help you anymore, and the thread deserves to die.

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UVA2B

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby UVA2B » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:37 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:Im from NJ so I could commute from home I don't want to live anywhere near Newark lol.


Yeah, this could've made some difference, albeit a small difference.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:41 pm

If you got scholarships from St. John's and Brooklyn, you should be able to get a Rutgers scholarship too even if they didn't originally give you one.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:42 pm

I thought BL and SJ are better for NY market which provide better jobs. I also don't like how Rutgers is in Newark. But I wouldn't mind working in NJ. Is Rutgers the best bet? No $$ from Rutgers.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Npret » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:44 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:I think I'm leaving this thread more confused than I was when I posted it. I am attending regardless, it just depends where. I don't think these schools with some $$ are so abysmal that they're not worth attending at all/ skipping entering legal profession as a whole. I'll effectively have no debt. So I think these answers are very bold.

To be fair,I know I was confused by the biglaw and clerkship outcomes mentioned in the OP.
I'm just not that familiar with small firm hiring which is idiosyncratic so it's hard to make an informed recommendation. I know Rutgers numbers include New Jersey state clerkships that may not be permanent jobs.

Have you looked at the schools? Can you negotiate with Rutgers?

I can understand why this is a confusing decision. OP looking at the employment figures I understand your thinking process. Rutgers has almost no biglaw placement or OCI.

I honestly can't tell which of these schools are the best choice.
Last edited by Npret on Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Keekee1231

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:48 pm

Thanks for understanding. I wouldn't be posting on this thread if I wasn't this strung out about making one of the most important decisions of my life :shock: only other offer is American U (no $). I'm on 7 waitlists as well..

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:49 pm

I'd hit Rutgers up for money using St. John's and Brooklyn.
I just looked up scholarship retention and ~15% lose them at both Brooklyn and Rutgers.
55% lost them at St.Johns (WTF??!)

You cannot under any circumstances go to St. John's.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:51 pm

15% --> not bad. 55% WTF. I was actually considering SJ bcs of law school transparency and good ranks among other systems. Good to know.

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UVA2B

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby UVA2B » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:53 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:15% --> not bad. 55% WTF. I was actually considering SJ bcs of law school transparency and good ranks among other systems. Good to know.


Inaccurate.

15%--->really bad
55%--->egregiously bad

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:54 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:15% --> not bad. 55% WTF. I was actually considering SJ bcs of law school transparency and good ranks among other systems. Good to know.

Yeah if anything is to come out of this thread for you, it should be that you don't attend SJ for this alone.

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Ferrisjso

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Ferrisjso » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:56 pm

Rigo wrote:I'd hit Rutgers up for money using St. John's and Brooklyn.
I just looked up scholarship retention and ~15% lose them at both Brooklyn and Rutgers.
55% lost them at St.Johns (WTF??!)

You cannot under any circumstances go to St. John's.


This is why i always says tell people never to go to SJL. They are a TT that have TTTT stip policies.

You shiuld still ask about getting your Brokklyn stips removed and/or getting scholly increases!

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:03 pm

How about this:
Brooklyn with your scholarship runs $85,500 for 3 years of tuition alone.
Rutgers in-state totals $68,724.

Craft a negotiation email to Brooklyn at least asking for the $16,776 difference. Hell, try to get at least $30k more. Say something like you really like Brooklyn but cost is a huge deciding factor for you since you will be taking out loans (even if this isn't true, lie) and although you like Brooklyn more, you are having trouble turning down your state flagship at a less expensive price point.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:10 pm

So you think if cost is equivalent Brooklyn > Rutgers Newark?

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Ferrisjso

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Ferrisjso » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:11 pm

Rigo wrote:How about this:
Brooklyn with your scholarship runs $85,500 for 3 years of tuition alone.
Rutgers in-state totals $68,724.

Craft a negotiation email to Brooklyn at least asking for the $16,776 difference. Hell, try to get at least $30k more. Say something like you really like Brooklyn but cost is a huge deciding factor for you since you will be taking out loans (even if this isn't true, lie) and although you like Brooklyn more, you are having trouble turning down your state flagship at a less expensive price point.


I agree but I'd also ask for the stips off instead and think that's more important(because if he loses his scholly he's going to lose way more than 16k).

Also OP if you want NJ, you should do Rutgers no question, that looks like a pretty good option for you. Try negotiating with them too, the less the better. If you prefer Brooklyn Rigo is giving really good advice use the Rutgers scholly to try and bring those prices closer.

If there is no difference between NYC and NJ for you, you'll almost certainly end up in better shape with Rutgers, finance wise.

FYI Rutgers Newark Law doesn't exist anymore it's just Rutgers.
Last edited by Ferrisjso on Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:13 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:So you think if cost is equivalent Brooklyn > Rutgers Newark?

Well it seems you wanted Brooklyn and NYC all along anyways, so sure.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:14 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:FYI Rutgers Newark Law doesn't exist anymore it's just Rutgers.

I mean it's still functionally Rutgers-Newark assuming she will attend classes at that campus.



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