St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

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Keekee1231

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St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:48 pm

Hey guys! I am having a really hard time deciding which law school to put a deposit down for.
I received $25,000/per year from St. Johns (top 60%) and $15,000/ per year (top 80%) from Brooklyn..
Last edited by Keekee1231 on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Rigo

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:57 pm

Try to negotiate away those stipulations. I def wouldn't consider St. John's on that stip alone.

You mean lower level trail court or superior court clerk right? You're not going to be a fed clerk out of any of these. And you're probably not going to get Biglaw either.
So what is your realistic plan B?

Idk your stats but I highly suspect a retake is in order if you can't even land the schools you've been waitlisted at.

If you refuse to go and costs equal, I guess Brooklyn because of location and better stipulation(?) It's hard to recommend anything here though without specific and attainable goals.

Negotiate if costs are equal. Get rid of those stips!!!

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:06 pm

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Last edited by Keekee1231 on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cavalier1138

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:09 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:I was more so referring clerking for the Judge I've interned for (which is the federal level). And I would be ok with working in a smaller firm as plan B.


Those schools don't produce federal clerks. And a smaller firm is not a backup plan from either.

For your goals, you need a T13 school.

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trebekismyhero

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby trebekismyhero » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:10 pm

Unless you and the Judge are bff, you are not getting a clerkship unless you are at the very top of your class, same for big law.

If money is not really a concern, then I guess Brooklyn, but really you should retake for a better school to help get you the outcome you want

Keekee1231

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:16 pm

Is Brooklyn soley due to the better stip? Or do you consider it a better school overall?

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:23 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:Is Brooklyn soley due to the better stip? Or do you consider it a better school overall?

From New York and I've always been told they're basically the same.
Stats don't really show big differences.
https://www.lstreports.com/compare/brooklyn/stjohns/

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mjb447

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby mjb447 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:41 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:I was more so referring clerking for the Judge I've interned for (which is the federal level).

Any reason to expect that your judge would do this? A number of judges don't take their own 1L and 2L externs as a matter of principle (there was a recent discussion on this subject in Clerks Taking Questions), and I don't know if it would be meaningfully different for pre-law internships. Otherwise, other posters are right: your chance at a fed. clerkship from one of these schools is vanishingly small.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:43 pm

Based on strong connection/hinted it.

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luckyirish13

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby luckyirish13 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:07 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:Based on strong connection/hinted it.
You need to have that conversation with him then. The schools you listed aren't bad, but they also don't create high probabilities of getting into the fields you say you're looking to pursue.

You really should retake the LSAT and reapply next cycle. But if you're committed to going this year (which isn't advisable but that's your choice) then you should make sure you actually have a clerkship waiting for you once you finish school, otherwise you're setting yourself up for a dangerous situation in a few years.

Keekee1231

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:12 pm

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Last edited by Keekee1231 on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Npret » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:15 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:Fair enough. I'm going to grind to be top of my class my first year and if it doesn't happen I may legitimately consider dropping out and take over my fathers business. Still not sure which one of these schools is the best option though.

Grinding isn't the best way to be top of your class. Studying for the exam is.
But note that you may fall victim to section stacking. Schools with scholarship stipulations often put students with the stipulations in the same section.

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luckyirish13

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby luckyirish13 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:16 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:Fair enough. I'm going to grind to be top of my class my first year and if it doesn't happen I may legitimately consider dropping out and take over my fathers business. Still not sure which one of these schools is the best option though.
Whichever one you get the stipulations removed from. If those stipulations exist, do NOT go, cuz that's risking throwing away money.

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trebekismyhero

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby trebekismyhero » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:17 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:Fair enough. I'm going to grind to be top of my class my first year and if it doesn't happen I may legitimately consider dropping out and take over my fathers business. Still not sure which one of these schools is the best option though.


You can't grind to be the top of your class. At the lower ranked schools you can probably work hard enough to guarantee you'll be above median, but can't guarantee you'll be top 5%. Which is what you would need to be confident that you can get big law and a fed clerkship. The best plan would be to retake the LSAT and at least go to Fordham.

Otherwise if you don't want to work at some small firm making $50k, don't even bother with these school and just take over your father's business.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:23 pm

Still has nothing to do with which school to attend/prioritize and why. Thanks for the input though, I am aware of the risks.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:14 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:Still has nothing to do with which school to attend/prioritize and why. Thanks for the input though, I am aware of the risks.


You're right. Job outcomes are the least important thing to consider when looking at a law school. And job outcomes aren't in the least bit affected by where you place in your class at dumpster fires schools like St. John's.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:21 pm

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Last edited by Keekee1231 on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:23 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:No, I get it. I'm just trying to get a feel for which of these schools is the better risk to take.


And the answer is... wait for it... neither. You should not take this risk at all, because it's a stupid risk.

Either retake and go to a law school that at least gives you a sliver of a chance at your goals, or just take over the family business (which sounds like your ultimate goal anyway).

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:25 pm

These schools are really that bad? I was under the impression they were at least fair to decent.

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Ferrisjso

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Ferrisjso » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:27 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:No, I get it. I know the risks. I'm just trying to get an idea of which of these schools is the better risk to take.


Brooklyn is the better risk to take, it's a slightly better school giving you more money with better stips(of course any stips are bad). You will have about a 1/5 chance of BL if you go to either school.

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:28 pm

Thank you for answering the question!!!!!!!! I am leaning towards Brooklyn.

cavalier1138

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:30 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:These schools are really that bad? I was under the impression they were at least fair to decent.


They're fair to decent for other goals. Your goal is a federal clerkship or biglaw. These schools are abysmal for that.

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Ferrisjso

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Ferrisjso » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:32 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:These schools are really that bad? I was under the impression they were at least fair to decent.


They aren't, Cavalier tends to go way over board with the pessimism and refusal to answer the question. Not saying what he's said though isn't grounded in reality but yeah these schools are average to above average in regards to employment stats(1/5 chance of BL IMO isn't terrible but if one is BL or bust I can see why they'd think that). SJU does behave like a TTTT with it's scholly stip policy though and except one unicorn situation where a kid got a stip free scholly I would never encourage someone to go to SJU Law. If you have to choose between these two schools, Brooklyn wins on all counts. Not the greatest option in the world, you should never be satisfied with accepting stips but chances are you'll keep your scholly at Brooklyn while at SJU chances are you'll lose it(those are just the numbers from the 509's).

Also yeah unless you are a super student Fed clerkships are going to be very difficult for you to obtain from Brooklyn.
Last edited by Ferrisjso on Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ferrisjso

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Ferrisjso » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:34 pm

Keekee1231 wrote:Thank you for answering the question!!!!!!!! I am leaning towards Brooklyn.


You're very welcome! Good luck!

Keekee1231

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Re: St. Johns ($) vs Brooklyn ($$) vs Waitlists

Postby Keekee1231 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:37 pm

That answer was key. Literally all I was looking for. (The elitism on these threads is more than I expected) I am going to visit Brooklyn soon to make a final deposit decision. Unless I get off the waitlist at W&L or William and Mary, I think BL is where I am going to attend. I also never said I was deadset on BigLaw or Fed Clerking, they're just my ultimate goals. Thanks again.



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