How regional is UT Austin?

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170orDie

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How regional is UT Austin?

Postby 170orDie » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:27 pm

It recently got ranked higher than GULC to make it into the t-14, which is funnily enough now considered the t-13. I understand the reasoning on why that is, based on employment prospects and such. But still, I am wondering is UT simply a regional school? I know a high majority of their students find jobs in Texas, but is that self-selecting or truly based upon UT's regional reach?

UT is the highest ranking school I got into, and they gave me the most $$, however I do not plan on sticking around in the texas area. If I have significant ties to Seattle, will I be able to return? Is UW really a better option even though it's ranked 15 spots lower?
Last edited by 170orDie on Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

kingpin101

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby kingpin101 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:29 pm

Do not go to UT if you don't want to stay in Texas. That is all.

grades??

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby grades?? » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:30 pm

You will almost have 0 chance getting back to the PNW from UT.

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Dr. Nefario

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby Dr. Nefario » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:37 pm

Almost 82% of grads get jobs within the state.

Prestigious? Yes
Regional? Extremely

Last year they placed exactly 0 grads in PNW. The year before, there might be one according to their stats. If your goal is Seattle, UW might make more sense.See if you can use UT's offer to negotiate.

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby Rigo » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:06 pm

You're putting too much stock in rankings.
It should be about cost and your goals.

If you want Seattle, I'd pick UW over UT.

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UVA2B

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby UVA2B » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:08 pm

Rigo wrote:You're putting too much stock in rankings.
It should be about cost and your goals.

If you want Seattle, I'd pick UW over UT.

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby favabeansoup » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:10 pm

My time to shine! Marking this so I can post later when I'm not drunk on a Wednesday night.

Relatively recent graduate of UT that can comment fairly on this. BigZuck will probably show up soon too.

Edit: pre post summary, yes UT is regional. Most kids get jobs in Texas. Largely due to self selection though. People might not believe that but it's true. People can get jobs in other markets pretty easily, you just have to have decent grades (top 25% or more depending on the particular market).

However, I've never heard of someone going to Seattle. I don't think we reach that far. I don't think many even T14 schools do besides a few. Market up there is small and can afford lots of selectivity.

If you are comfortable with living in Texas, with smller possibility of NYC et al, go to UT. If you are set on Seattle, don't go to UT.
Last edited by favabeansoup on Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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UVA2B

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby UVA2B » Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:17 pm

To follow-up: UT probably can get you back to the PNW with substantial ties and the right grades, on par with other schools that primarily place in a different region with some national reach (Vandy, UCLA, GULC immediately come to mind), but if you're committed to the PNW, your best bet is to negotiate with UW with the higher UT offer and go there if they match or bring it close.

If you're more open to staying in TX, UT has undoubtedly better employment stats.

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PeanutsNJam

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:57 am

would you take non-Seattle biglaw over Seattle non-biglaw? If yes, go to UT. If you'd rather do non-biglaw work in seattle than biglaw anywhere else, go to UW.

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby 170orDie » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:11 am

favabeansoup wrote:My time to shine! Marking this so I can post later when I'm not drunk on a Wednesday night.

Relatively recent graduate of UT that can comment fairly on this. BigZuck will probably show up soon too.

Edit: pre post summary, yes UT is regional. Most kids get jobs in Texas. Largely due to self selection though. People might not believe that but it's true. People can get jobs in other markets pretty easily, you just have to have decent grades (top 25% or more depending on the particular market).

However, I've never heard of someone going to Seattle. I don't think we reach that far. I don't think many even T14 schools do besides a few. Market up there is small and can afford lots of selectivity.

If you are comfortable with living in Texas, with smller possibility of NYC et al, go to UT. If you are set on Seattle, don't go to UT.


Seattle is my number one goal, however, I wouldn't mind LA/SF area either, does UT have any pull in those markets in your experience?

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby 170orDie » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:13 am

UVA2B wrote:To follow-up: UT probably can get you back to the PNW with substantial ties and the right grades, on par with other schools that primarily place in a different region with some national reach (Vandy, UCLA, GULC immediately come to mind), but if you're committed to the PNW, your best bet is to negotiate with UW with the higher UT offer and go there if they match or bring it close.

If you're more open to staying in TX, UT has undoubtedly better employment stats.


I do have very strong ties to the PNW having grown up here. Does that offset the bubble that Seattle is in as a smaller legal market? Is UW a obviously better school for my plans than a UCLA/USC/UT?

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:47 am

This is all anecdotal, but PNW natives who went to out of state T14s have reported no luck in getting jobs in Seattle (I think someone who went to Stanford may have managed it?). It's a really small market and apparently especially insular. I think there's a Seattle thread somewhere in the legal employment forum.

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UVA2B

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby UVA2B » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:59 am

170orDie wrote:
UVA2B wrote:To follow-up: UT probably can get you back to the PNW with substantial ties and the right grades, on par with other schools that primarily place in a different region with some national reach (Vandy, UCLA, GULC immediately come to mind), but if you're committed to the PNW, your best bet is to negotiate with UW with the higher UT offer and go there if they match or bring it close.

If you're more open to staying in TX, UT has undoubtedly better employment stats.


I do have very strong ties to the PNW having grown up here. Does that offset the bubble that Seattle is in as a smaller legal market? Is UW a obviously better school for my plans than a UCLA/USC/UT?


To be clear, I just meant theoretically you could get Seattle from UT with the right ties and the right grades. It does nothing to offset the smaller market where picking UT/USC/UCLA over UW makes any sense.

If Seattle Biglaw>Seattle law>Biglaw elsewhere>law elsewhere, go to UW by negotiating cost to a minimum
If Seattle Biglaw>Biglaw elsewhere>Seattle law>law elsewhere, pick based on total cost and other market you'd be most interested in practicing outside of Seattle if you missed on Seattle Biglaw

It sounds pretty clear that you are caught up in rankings distinctions that are meaningless in practice. If you want to be in the PNW more than anything, UW for cheap is the clear-cut best choice. I know it sounds nice to say you went to a school that ranks higher on a list that loosely signals prestige, but you need to be rational in making this decision. Would you tell someone wanting to end up in a specific region to go to another mostly regional school hoping to come back when you have a regional school that places better in that region? Does that make any sense?

If you're less married to ending up in the PNW, and could see practicing in the region of that other regional school with stronger employment statistics, then that's on you. But don't say you weren't warned that going to a place like UT would be a bad choice compared to UW.

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby ponderingmeerkat » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:07 am

I grew up in the PNW (in a town that shares my last name...we settled 130 years ago...that's how robust my ties are) and, while I have no interest, right now, in returning due to Mrs. Meerkat being from another part of the country, I still have several friends practicing law in the greater-Seattle area (as well as one in Eastern Washington) and I regularly follow/lurk the "Seattle employment thread" with a fair amount interest in case I'm ever interested in going home.

I've heard in-person anecdotes (and had these anecdotes backed up here, independently, on TLS) that you're much better off going to Ewe Dub than practically any other lower-T13 school. Opinion's vary when it comes to YSHCCN as well as Boalt (and it'd probably matter where you graduated in each of those classes as well as how robust your ties are). But if you're talking about MVPDCN, UW Law wins and it's not even close. I imagine (although I've never specifically asked, because it seems plainly obvious...frankly) that this dynamic becomes MUCH more pronounced as you slide into the regionals like UT, like GULC, like UCLA, like Vandy.

So, to put a bow on this, is UT Austin "regional" for your purposes? Exceedingly so. If you were trying to land in Louisiana or Oklahoma...ok, maybe then we could start arguing semantics. But, no...absent some truly strange, outlier set of circumstances you need to avoid UT like the plague if you have any desire to work in or around Seattle or the greater PNW anytime in the next couple of decades.

Good luck dude. 8)
Last edited by ponderingmeerkat on Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

favabeansoup

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby favabeansoup » Thu Apr 06, 2017 11:00 am

170orDie wrote:
favabeansoup wrote:My time to shine! Marking this so I can post later when I'm not drunk on a Wednesday night.

Relatively recent graduate of UT that can comment fairly on this. BigZuck will probably show up soon too.

Edit: pre post summary, yes UT is regional. Most kids get jobs in Texas. Largely due to self selection though. People might not believe that but it's true. People can get jobs in other markets pretty easily, you just have to have decent grades (top 25% or more depending on the particular market).

However, I've never heard of someone going to Seattle. I don't think we reach that far. I don't think many even T14 schools do besides a few. Market up there is small and can afford lots of selectivity.

If you are comfortable with living in Texas, with smller possibility of NYC et al, go to UT. If you are set on Seattle, don't go to UT.


Seattle is my number one goal, however, I wouldn't mind LA/SF area either, does UT have any pull in those markets in your experience?


People can get LA/SF from UT, but those people often have great grades and some form of ties (or if SF/SV are IP oriented more often than not).

I don't think you should go to UT. It seems to me like going to a school like UCLA or Berkeley would be much better for your current goals. If you didn't get into either I would suggest retaking the LSAT if you can.

UT is a good school to pursue those other markets only if you are really comfortable working in Texas markets like Houston or Dallas if you fail at the former.

I'm concerned about a situation where you go to UT and strike out with PNW/LA/SF firms, but then you end up striking out with Texas firms too because your resume/history would be screaming I'll leave Texas at the first opportunity to go to California or Seattle. (Texas firms do care about ties/showing commitment to Texas, although less so over past few years).

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby BigZuck » Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:05 pm

I agree that you should not go to UT

There's quite a few things I would quibble with in this thread (Georgetown is a regional school alongside the likes of UT? Lol wut) but don't really have the time/energy to go line by line. I'll say that I'm not from TX and was surprised by the interviews I got/how well UT was respected in my home market. But still don't go to UT unless getting a job in TX is your primary focus (as was the case for me, I work in TX now)

I get that UCLA is geographically closer to Washington than UT is, but I doubt that would give you a leg up. I'm guessing HYS type schools would be well respected anywhere, Boalt is a cut above UCLA and the closest non-Stanford T14 so maybe it would be good for Washington, I don't know. But ultimately I'd probably go to UW if I were committed to Washington. If I were committed to big law with Seattle as my primary market (but open to NYC, etc.) then I would go to a T14. And by T14 I mean T14 in the historical sense of the term, not what US News declared is the T14 this year.

170orDie

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby 170orDie » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:07 pm

favabeansoup wrote:
170orDie wrote:
favabeansoup wrote:My time to shine! Marking this so I can post later when I'm not drunk on a Wednesday night.

Relatively recent graduate of UT that can comment fairly on this. BigZuck will probably show up soon too.

Edit: pre post summary, yes UT is regional. Most kids get jobs in Texas. Largely due to self selection though. People might not believe that but it's true. People can get jobs in other markets pretty easily, you just have to have decent grades (top 25% or more depending on the particular market).

However, I've never heard of someone going to Seattle. I don't think we reach that far. I don't think many even T14 schools do besides a few. Market up there is small and can afford lots of selectivity.

If you are comfortable with living in Texas, with smller possibility of NYC et al, go to UT. If you are set on Seattle, don't go to UT.


Seattle is my number one goal, however, I wouldn't mind LA/SF area either, does UT have any pull in those markets in your experience?


People can get LA/SF from UT, but those people often have great grades and some form of ties (or if SF/SV are IP oriented more often than not).

I don't think you should go to UT. It seems to me like going to a school like UCLA or Berkeley would be much better for your current goals. If you didn't get into either I would suggest retaking the LSAT if you can.

UT is a good school to pursue those other markets only if you are really comfortable working in Texas markets like Houston or Dallas if you fail at the former.

I'm concerned about a situation where you go to UT and strike out with PNW/LA/SF firms, but then you end up striking out with Texas firms too because your resume/history would be screaming I'll leave Texas at the first opportunity to go to California or Seattle. (Texas firms do care about ties/showing commitment to Texas, although less so over past few years).
ponderingmeerkat wrote:I grew up in the PNW (in a town that shares my last name...we settled 130 years ago...that's how robust my ties are) and, while I have no interest, right now, in returning due to Mrs. Meerkat being from another part of the country, I still have several friends practicing law in the greater-Seattle area (as well as one in Eastern Washington) and I regularly follow/lurk the "Seattle employment thread" with a fair amount interest in case I'm ever interested in going home.

I've heard in-person anecdotes (and had these anecdotes backed up here, independently, on TLS) that you're much better off going to Ewe Dub than practically any other lower-T13 school. Opinion's vary when it comes to YSHCCN as well as Boalt (and it'd probably matter where you graduated in each of those classes as well as how robust your ties are). But if you're talking about MVPDCN, UW Law wins and it's not even close. I imagine (although I've never specifically asked, because it seems plainly obvious...frankly) that this dynamic becomes MUCH more pronounced as you slide into the regionals like UT, like GULC, like UCLA, like Vandy.

So, to put a bow on this, is UT Austin "regional" for your purposes? Exceedingly so. If you were trying to land in Louisiana or Oklahoma...ok, maybe then we could start arguing semantics. But, no...absent some truly strange, outlier set of circumstances you need to avoid UT like the plague if you have any desire to work in or around Seattle or the greater PNW anytime in the next couple of decades.

Good luck dude. 8)
UVA2B wrote:
170orDie wrote:
UVA2B wrote:To follow-up: UT probably can get you back to the PNW with substantial ties and the right grades, on par with other schools that primarily place in a different region with some national reach (Vandy, UCLA, GULC immediately come to mind), but if you're committed to the PNW, your best bet is to negotiate with UW with the higher UT offer and go there if they match or bring it close.

If you're more open to staying in TX, UT has undoubtedly better employment stats.


I do have very strong ties to the PNW having grown up here. Does that offset the bubble that Seattle is in as a smaller legal market? Is UW a obviously better school for my plans than a UCLA/USC/UT?


To be clear, I just meant theoretically you could get Seattle from UT with the right ties and the right grades. It does nothing to offset the smaller market where picking UT/USC/UCLA over UW makes any sense.

If Seattle Biglaw>Seattle law>Biglaw elsewhere>law elsewhere, go to UW by negotiating cost to a minimum
If Seattle Biglaw>Biglaw elsewhere>Seattle law>law elsewhere, pick based on total cost and other market you'd be most interested in practicing outside of Seattle if you missed on Seattle Biglaw

It sounds pretty clear that you are caught up in rankings distinctions that are meaningless in practice. If you want to be in the PNW more than anything, UW for cheap is the clear-cut best choice. I know it sounds nice to say you went to a school that ranks higher on a list that loosely signals prestige, but you need to be rational in making this decision. Would you tell someone wanting to end up in a specific region to go to another mostly regional school hoping to come back when you have a regional school that places better in that region? Does that make any sense?

If you're less married to ending up in the PNW, and could see practicing in the region of that other regional school with stronger employment statistics, then that's on you. But don't say you weren't warned that going to a place like UT would be a bad choice compared to UW.
BigZuck wrote:I agree that you should not go to UT

There's quite a few things I would quibble with in this thread (Georgetown is a regional school alongside the likes of UT? Lol wut) but don't really have the time/energy to go line by line. I'll say that I'm not from TX and was surprised by the interviews I got/how well UT was respected in my home market. But still don't go to UT unless getting a job in TX is your primary focus (as was the case for me, I work in TX now)

I get that UCLA is geographically closer to Washington than UT is, but I doubt that would give you a leg up. I'm guessing HYS type schools would be well respected anywhere, Boalt is a cut above UCLA and the closest non-Stanford T14 so maybe it would be good for Washington, I don't know. But ultimately I'd probably go to UW if I were committed to Washington. If I were committed to big law with Seattle as my primary market (but open to NYC, etc.) then I would go to a T14. And by T14 I mean T14 in the historical sense of the term, not what US News declared is the T14 this year.



Thank you all for your input. Last question on the matter, does my degree in Computer Science change the dynamic in any of this? I have a bachelor of science, but no work experience. I am pursuing patent law, preferably litigation but I haven't really made that decision yet.

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby 206488476 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:41 pm

170orDie wrote:
favabeansoup wrote:My time to shine! Marking this so I can post later when I'm not drunk on a Wednesday night.

Relatively recent graduate of UT that can comment fairly on this. BigZuck will probably show up soon too.

Edit: pre post summary, yes UT is regional. Most kids get jobs in Texas. Largely due to self selection though. People might not believe that but it's true. People can get jobs in other markets pretty easily, you just have to have decent grades (top 25% or more depending on the particular market).

However, I've never heard of someone going to Seattle. I don't think we reach that far. I don't think many even T14 schools do besides a few. Market up there is small and can afford lots of selectivity.

If you are comfortable with living in Texas, with smller possibility of NYC et al, go to UT. If you are set on Seattle, don't go to UT.


Seattle is my number one goal, however, I wouldn't mind LA/SF area either, does UT have any pull in those markets in your experience?


I spoke to UT law grad who said when she relocated to SF because of her spouse she had to cold call every UT law alum she could find in the bay for months until she got a lead on a job. Idk if it's any different if you're trying to go straight from UT to the bay. I get the feeling that between all the Stanford and Berkeley grads floating around nobody finds a UT JD impressive. USC/UCLA also dominate southern California with UCI, Loyola, Chapman, Pepperdine picking up the scraps. California is such an oversaturated market

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BlendedUnicorn

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:48 pm

PNW or bust might be the one time I tell someone to take HYS (and especially Y and S) over CCN with $$$. Though honestly would tell them to consider UW if they really meant the "or bust."

170orDie

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby 170orDie » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:41 am

HuntedUnicorn wrote:PNW or bust might be the one time I tell someone to take HYS (and especially Y and S) over CCN with $$$. Though honestly would tell them to consider UW if they really meant the "or bust."


Is this you calling UW a bust?

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KissMyAxe

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Re: How regional is UT Austin?

Postby KissMyAxe » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:40 am

170orDie wrote:
HuntedUnicorn wrote:PNW or bust might be the one time I tell someone to take HYS (and especially Y and S) over CCN with $$$. Though honestly would tell them to consider UW if they really meant the "or bust."


Is this you calling UW a bust?


I didn't get that from what he's saying. He's saying that if you only want to work in the Pacific Northwest, then he might suggest HYS over CCN with a big scholarship (there's a debate on here of which is better). He's saying if you genuinely mean you only meant you wouldn't want to work elsewhere, then he would tell you to consider UW.

But I can speak on this a little bit. I have a lot of friends at UT (though BigZuck knows more about it). There is a degree of self-selection with that 82% Texan workers, but it's also a heavily regional school, it's probably the best regional school. And by that, I mean Vanderbilt and UCLA probably have a slightly bigger range, but they're weaker in their home market than Texas is (but they're not going to work for Seattle either). Do not go to Texas if you aren't okay living in Texas afterwards. It might be possible with ties to go back to Seattle, but you'd have to be an absolute superstar at UT, which will be extremely difficult (It's filled with brilliant students, there are a number of HLS admits there who chose UT with $$$ because they were Texans who were Texas or bust). And even then, it's really unlikely.

UW is a better bet. It has an extensive alumni network in the area that will prove invaluable. Again, Texas is a damn good school, but you're going to be just another out of state student competing with all the other ones. My school is absolutely filled with Seattle-born people looking to go back. That means you'd be competing with them. You'd also be competing with HLS, SLS, and Berkeley students who want to go back. That's why you can be a top student at UT and still miss out. If you really want to work in the PNW, that's where you need to go to school.

Of course, as someone said, if you'd rather work in Biglaw elsewhere than in regular law in the PNW, then the calculus changes somewhat, but in that case, I'd recommend retaking the LSAT.



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