Top Law Schools

PeanutsNJam wrote:

RedPurpleBlue wrote:

PeanutsNJam wrote:There is a bunch of (if not better than biglaw) midlaw/JD Advantage jobs available, but they're discounted equally for all schools, so for comparison purposes, BL+FC is fine. The only schools that suffer disproportionately are HYS.

Think that's really disingenuous, considering Chicago, Penn, and Northwestern have M7 business schools and are likely landing much better JD Advantage jobs than Michigan, UVA, Berkeley, etc. (save for HYS).

Do we know that MBA jobs are categorically filed under "JD Advantage"? If someone gets a JD/MBA at Penn and decides to go into PE, I don't think that's filed under "JD Advantage" for the JD ABA report... is it? Maybe MBB fits under that, but consulting firms hire people with only JDs from like CLS.

If someone goes into PE and they're not acting as a lawyer it gets counted as JD Advantage. No different than the consulting firms or really any other non-attorney job

PeanutsNJam wrote:

RedPurpleBlue wrote:

PeanutsNJam wrote:There is a bunch of (if not better than biglaw) midlaw/JD Advantage jobs available, but they're discounted equally for all schools, so for comparison purposes, BL+FC is fine. The only schools that suffer disproportionately are HYS.

Think that's really disingenuous, considering Chicago, Penn, and Northwestern have M7 business schools and are likely landing much better JD Advantage jobs than Michigan, UVA, Berkeley, etc. (save for HYS).

Do we know that MBA jobs are categorically filed under "JD Advantage"? If someone gets a JD/MBA at Penn and decides to go into PE, I don't think that's filed under "JD Advantage" for the JD ABA report... is it? Maybe MBB fits under that, but consulting firms hire people with only JDs from like CLS.

I think I'm answering your question: NU has said about half their JD/MBA grads go on to practice as lawyers. In their last 2 employment reports they have only had one "professional position", which means the rest have to be jd advantage.

kingpin101 wrote:Columbia too has 10 FTLT business/industry grads with a median salary of 135k and a 25th percentile of 125k. So these are definitely legit jobs (likely consulting or finance).

This isn't necessarily true at all the t14 schools though. Michigan class of 2015's median business/industry salary was 74k (we don't have 2016's yet).

All M7 jd/mba programs (Penn/Harvard/Stanford/Chicago/Columbia/Northwestern/anyone doubling with Sloan) will see very successful JD Adv/Business jobs. Those should probably be included in biglaw + fed clerk as a default.

If you're doing a JD/MBA, are picking schools, and are using employment stats as your primary deciding factor (as you should), I think looking at JD employment stats and MBA employment stats separately is sufficient. It's not like somebody is going to think that a Penn JD/MBA is equal to idk a Duke JD/MBA (idk if they do that). Also, your employment outlook is much brighter generally with a JD/MBA.

To the extent M7 schools place JD/MBA students into sweet business gigs, that's attributable to their MBA program, not their JD, right?

PeanutsNJam wrote:
To the extent M7 schools place JD/MBA students into sweet business gigs, that's attributable to their MBA program, not their JD, right?

That's absolutely correct. That being said, the current way we calculate stats (BL+FC) disadvantages those schools even though they are putting their graduates in good employment outcomes. If Chicago had 20% JD Advantage for instance, it'd look like they were at the bottom of the T13 in offering good employment outcomes, which just wouldn't be true.

what kind of employment options would one be looking at if they got a M7 MBA post law school and clerking?

proleteriate wrote:what kind of employment options would one be looking at if they got a M7 MBA post law school and clerking?

Why would someone get an MBA after clerking? I would imagine it would be the same as anyone that went to an M7. Being a lawyer for a year or two wouldn't give you any real advantage

trebekismyhero wrote:

proleteriate wrote:what kind of employment options would one be looking at if they got a M7 MBA post law school and clerking?

Why would someone get an MBA after clerking? I would imagine it would be the same as anyone that went to an M7. Being a lawyer for a year or two wouldn't give you any real advantage

Plus, you would have blown a lot of time and money becoming a lawyer.

RedPurpleBlue wrote:

PeanutsNJam wrote:
To the extent M7 schools place JD/MBA students into sweet business gigs, that's attributable to their MBA program, not their JD, right?

That's absolutely correct. That being said, the current way we calculate stats (BL+FC) disadvantages those schools even though they are putting their graduates in good employment outcomes. If Chicago had 20% JD Advantage for instance, it'd look like they were at the bottom of the T13 in offering good employment outcomes, which just wouldn't be true.

Right. Though the numbers don't end up earth-shatteringly different, if one removes the JD-MBAs from the numerator and the denominator at NU, here are the stats:

141/223 BL = 63.23%
18/141 FC = 8.07%
159/223 BL + FC = 71.30%

NU does the complete breakdown of its JD-MBA outcomes on its website, so it's easy to remove them from the equation. With over 10% of the class as JD-MBA students (26/249), it's enough to make a decent difference in the final BL + FC number at 68.67% vs. 71.30%. Again, not huge, but worth noting.

Anybody know when the deadline is for schools to publish this?

Who is missing at this point?

cannibal ox wrote:Who is missing at this point?

University of Washington

PDX4343 wrote:Anybody know when the deadline is for schools to publish this?

The ABA's deadline for each school to publish the most recent year's employment data to its website is April 15th. That was a Saturday this year, so I would anticipate any outstanding disclosures will be released today, the next business day after the deadline.

See the table on page six of this document:
http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/ ... eckdam.pdf

Probably the only one in here who cares but UW is up -- https://www.law.washington.edu/career/e ... ry2016.pdf

PDX4343 wrote:Probably the only one in here who cares but UW is up -- https://www.law.washington.edu/career/e ... ry2016.pdf

29/153 = 19.0% (+0.2%)

xn3345 wrote:

TLS_Dreamer wrote: But why aren't UVA and Duke more prestigious than Harvard? If the former schools give you better employment options, aren't people who say Harvard is better just objectively wrong? Why do people give Harvard higher standing? It just makes no sense to me.

It's almost like prestige is a subjective quality useful only for impressing relatives and members of the opposite sex

What about gay people...

hellohalo wrote:

xn3345 wrote:

TLS_Dreamer wrote: But why aren't UVA and Duke more prestigious than Harvard? If the former schools give you better employment options, aren't people who say Harvard is better just objectively wrong? Why do people give Harvard higher standing? It just makes no sense to me.

It's almost like prestige is a subjective quality useful only for impressing relatives and people generally

What about gay people...

my b

xn3345 wrote:

hellohalo wrote:

xn3345 wrote:

TLS_Dreamer wrote: But why aren't UVA and Duke more prestigious than Harvard? If the former schools give you better employment options, aren't people who say Harvard is better just objectively wrong? Why do people give Harvard higher standing? It just makes no sense to me.

It's almost like prestige is a subjective quality useful only for impressing relatives and people generally potential sexual partners

What about gay people...

my b

how bout now?

Pragmatic Gun wrote:

xn3345 wrote:

hellohalo wrote:

xn3345 wrote:

TLS_Dreamer wrote: But why aren't UVA and Duke more prestigious than Harvard? If the former schools give you better employment options, aren't people who say Harvard is better just objectively wrong? Why do people give Harvard higher standing? It just makes no sense to me.

It's almost like prestige is a subjective quality useful only for impressing relatives and people generally potential sexual partners

What about gay people...

my b

how bout now?

now you're excluding asexual people

nimbus cloud wrote:

Pragmatic Gun wrote:

xn3345 wrote:

hellohalo wrote:

xn3345 wrote:

TLS_Dreamer wrote: But why aren't UVA and Duke more prestigious than Harvard? If the former schools give you better employment options, aren't people who say Harvard is better just objectively wrong? Why do people give Harvard higher standing? It just makes no sense to me.

It's almost like prestige is a subjective quality useful only for impressing relatives and people generally potential sexual partners

What about gay people...

my b

how bout now?

now you're excluding asexual people

Hmm. how to reconcile the original intent of the author with norms of civilized discourse?

Pragmatic Gun wrote:

nimbus cloud wrote:

Pragmatic Gun wrote:

xn3345 wrote:

hellohalo wrote:

xn3345 wrote:

TLS_Dreamer wrote: But why aren't UVA and Duke more prestigious than Harvard? If the former schools give you better employment options, aren't people who say Harvard is better just objectively wrong? Why do people give Harvard higher standing? It just makes no sense to me.

It's almost like prestige is a subjective quality useful only for impressing relatives and people generally potential sexual partners

What about gay people...

my b

how bout now?

now you're excluding asexual people

Hmm. how to reconcile the original intent of the author with norms of civilized discourse?

Just don't. 80% of originalists are just too lazy to try and apply the framers logic to today

Chicago-Kent: 29/242= 12% 2016
39/277= 14% 2015

Loyola-Chicago: 40/209=19% 2016
35/261=13.4% 2015

DePaul Univ: 22/234= 9.4% 2016
16/257= 6.2% 2015

PeanutsNJam wrote:If you're doing a JD/MBA, are picking schools, and are using employment stats as your primary deciding factor (as you should), I think looking at JD employment stats and MBA employment stats separately is sufficient. It's not like somebody is going to think that a Penn JD/MBA is equal to idk a Duke JD/MBA (idk if they do that). Also, your employment outlook is much brighter generally with a JD/MBA.

Is htis true? On another fourm, everyone was telling me that JD/MBA was worthless and bad for eployment? I looked at linkin and all the JD/MBA were successful, while JD or MBA alone had number of unsuccessful.

theventriloquist wrote:

PeanutsNJam wrote:If you're doing a JD/MBA, are picking schools, and are using employment stats as your primary deciding factor (as you should), I think looking at JD employment stats and MBA employment stats separately is sufficient. It's not like somebody is going to think that a Penn JD/MBA is equal to idk a Duke JD/MBA (idk if they do that). Also, your employment outlook is much brighter generally with a JD/MBA.

Is htis true? On another fourm, everyone was telling me that JD/MBA was worthless and bad for eployment? I looked at linkin and all the JD/MBA were successful, while JD or MBA alone had number of unsuccessful.

Totally depends on the mba

And on how you define success

theventriloquist wrote:

PeanutsNJam wrote:If you're doing a JD/MBA, are picking schools, and are using employment stats as your primary deciding factor (as you should), I think looking at JD employment stats and MBA employment stats separately is sufficient. It's not like somebody is going to think that a Penn JD/MBA is equal to idk a Duke JD/MBA (idk if they do that). Also, your employment outlook is much brighter generally with a JD/MBA.

Is htis true? On another fourm, everyone was telling me that JD/MBA was worthless and bad for eployment? I looked at linkin and all the JD/MBA were successful, while JD or MBA alone had number of unsuccessful.

I think it depends on what you want to do and where you go? If you get a JD/MBA from an M7 school certainly that helps. Also, if you're going to get a JD or an MBA from any of those schools you're likely to have a good outcome anyways.

If you get a JD/MBA from t2 school then I doubt it makes much of a difference.

Generally most law firms don't care so if you want to be on the legal side, I don't think it is really worth it unless you can go to one of the top schools where you can get a JD/MBA in 3 years like Penn and NU