Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

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cavalier1138

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:36 pm

Earlskies wrote:Two questions:

1) Are any of the numbers of value for folks looking to go into PI?
2) Are clerkships valuable for PI-ers?


1. See the stickied thread at the top of the forum. But no, biglaw numbers have no direct impact on PI prospects.
2. Depends.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Nebby » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:45 pm

Earlskies wrote:Two questions:

1) Are any of the numbers of value for folks looking to go into PI?
2) Are clerkships valuable for PI-ers?

1) No
2) Yes, but not necessarily

Come join us: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=262810

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AT9

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby AT9 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:49 pm

Pomeranian wrote:Wake Forest - 22.7%


Up about 10%. Nice. FTLT, bar-passage required is 73%. 3% unemployed and seeking.

EDIT: biglaw + fed clerkship is actually about 21%.

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PrezRand

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby PrezRand » Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:57 pm

NU is at 68%?

cannibal ox

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby cannibal ox » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:01 pm

Can we get links to the pages that have the stats instead of just posting a school and a percentage? Cough Wake Forest Cough.

registering

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby registering » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:05 pm

I think GULC is out? Screams "Preliminary" everywhere though

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ ... mary-2.pdf

301 BL + 35 FC with 652 total students = 51.5%

First time it's been above 50% since the ABA started tracking.
Last edited by registering on Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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guynourmin

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby guynourmin » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:05 pm

JD_Kingfish wrote:Does anyone have any insight on what state & local judicial clerks do after their clerkship? Is it generally considered good to land a state clerkship or nah is what I'm wondering. I've noticed some schools have very high state clerkship placement and just wondering how this should be viewed.

There was kind of a discussion about that somewhere above that got off track pretty quickly...

State clerkships are SO varied. Clerking for the state supreme court might be a wonderful experience and those people may have turned down fedclerk positions and already have biglaw lined up. Then you've got states like NJ (and probably others. MN, I think?) where a lot of local judges have clerks and people taking those positions may not have had many other great options. You don't know. That's why BL+FedClerk is the metric here. There's state clerkships that are better than some fedclerkships, and there's 25-50 person law firms that people at 500+ firms wouldn't ever get a look in. With the data we get, though, you can't read into it. We assume the people at small firms from Y are going to awesome places and the people from random state U at the same sized firms are just happy to have a job. We really have no idea where people in the middle are going and that's why no one here is putting any emphasis on those categories, even though they may contain some highly desirable outcomes.

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AT9

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby AT9 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:06 pm

cannibal ox wrote:Can we get links to the pages that have the stats instead of just posting a school and a percentage? Cough Wake Forest Cough.


Fair enough: http://career.law.wfu.edu/files/2017/04 ... _FINAL.pdf

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BoyJord

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby BoyJord » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:08 pm

RParadela wrote:
sluggla wrote:
RParadela wrote:
cron1834 wrote:Duke, UVA, Berkeley, Michigan, NU, and Cornell are all basically peers. There's wiggle room from year to year, and some selection bias reflected in the data, but they're peers. The airports literally don't matter.

Let's focus on how bad GULC is.


Sorry, UVA and Duke have risen above Michigan, Berkley, Cornell and NU. We now have the T9, please adjust your thinking

RParadela wrote:Michigan scholly is a good negotiation tool. Michigan and UVA are certainly peer schools


This was before Michigan's subpar status was confirmed. That advice no longer applies, sorry


Wow could anyone be more passionate about UVA being better than Michigan ?

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby curry1 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:11 pm

registering wrote:I think GULC is out? Screams "Preliminary" everywhere though

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ ... mary-2.pdf

301 BL + 35 FC with 652 total students = 51.5%

First time it's been above 50% since the ABA started tracking.


still a sinking ttt being outplaced by a regional school in Tennessee

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:13 pm

cannibal ox wrote:Can we get links to the pages that have the stats instead of just posting a school and a percentage? Cough Wake Forest Cough.


http://bfy.tw/BBx5

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:14 pm

PrezRand wrote:NU is at 68%?


Yup, they stayed about the same, but what's important to note is that employment in 501+ firms went from 51.4% to 57%. It looks like this years numbers were hurt by an increase in PI/Gov't from 6.8% to 10% (maybe from the $100 Pritzker gift support?) and of course the usual abnormally high 6% in business jobs form NU's large JD-MBA cohort. Unemployment went down by ~1% and ST/PT jobs went down by ~0.5%, so these numbers are definitely an equal to or an improvement over last years, even if they don't look like it from the surface.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby cannibal ox » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:15 pm

Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:
cannibal ox wrote:Can we get links to the pages that have the stats instead of just posting a school and a percentage? Cough Wake Forest Cough.


http://bfy.tw/BBx5


omg! lol!

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:16 pm

cannibal ox wrote:
Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:
cannibal ox wrote:Can we get links to the pages that have the stats instead of just posting a school and a percentage? Cough Wake Forest Cough.


http://bfy.tw/BBx5


omg! lol!


:wink: :wink: hahaha

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Pure Applesauce » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:17 pm

curry1 wrote:
registering wrote:I think GULC is out? Screams "Preliminary" everywhere though

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ ... mary-2.pdf

301 BL + 35 FC with 652 total students = 51.5%

First time it's been above 50% since the ABA started tracking.


still a sinking ttt being outplaced by a regional school in Tennessee


plurality of Vandy grads went to NY

cannibal ox

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby cannibal ox » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:18 pm

Trolling aside, Wake had 28 of 184 grads in "Business & Industry" is that high? I never even pay attention to that number but it caught my eye because it was so high.

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star fox

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby star fox » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:18 pm

guybourdin wrote:
JD_Kingfish wrote:Does anyone have any insight on what state & local judicial clerks do after their clerkship? Is it generally considered good to land a state clerkship or nah is what I'm wondering. I've noticed some schools have very high state clerkship placement and just wondering how this should be viewed.

There was kind of a discussion about that somewhere above that got off track pretty quickly...

State clerkships are SO varied. Clerking for the state supreme court might be a wonderful experience and those people may have turned down fedclerk positions and already have biglaw lined up. Then you've got states like NJ (and probably others. MN, I think?) where a lot of local judges have clerks and people taking those positions may not have had many other great options. You don't know. That's why BL+FedClerk is the metric here. There's state clerkships that are better than some fedclerkships, and there's 25-50 person law firms that people at 500+ firms wouldn't ever get a look in. With the data we get, though, you can't read into it. We assume the people at small firms from Y are going to awesome places and the people from random state U at the same sized firms are just happy to have a job. We really have no idea where people in the middle are going and that's why no one here is putting any emphasis on those categories, even though they may contain some highly desirable outcomes.

Seriously people, push the schools you're applying to for more comprehensive data. They have it and can release the specifics courts people end up at but choose not to.

registering

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby registering » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:19 pm

curry1 wrote:
registering wrote:I think GULC is out? Screams "Preliminary" everywhere though

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ ... mary-2.pdf

301 BL + 35 FC with 652 total students = 51.5%

First time it's been above 50% since the ABA started tracking.


still a sinking ttt being outplaced by a regional school in Tennessee


Vandy's always been pretty strong though. From the 2005 stuff, it looks like it was on par with Boalt for NLJ250 stats.

Like Vandy, it seems like GULC actually improved in raw numbers rather than just shrinking its denominator here. It's about 33 more people landing BL+FC than the past 3 years. Kinda odd that we're seeing T13s saturating around the 70s while the lower ranked schools are starting to boost numbers.

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Jaqen

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Jaqen » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:23 pm

Nebby wrote:
Jaqen wrote:Chicago left Columbia in the dust in the USNWR rankings and is at the top of the list for employment.

UT displaced the George-whatever Law CenTTTer in USNWR and Vandy's employment stats are probably better than Berzerkeley's.

This Southerner => Chicagoan => Texan is pleased.

You can't be all three of these. Chicago left no one in the dust in USNWR. You're using "employment" in a meaningless sense.


Sorry Columbia has fallen on hard times dude. Darkest just before the dawn, etc. Of course, dawn still probably won't be enough to break back into the HYSC tier.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby cannibal ox » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:25 pm

Nebby, if you buy enough CLS sweatshirts maybe the money will go towards hiring a fed clerkship adviser for Columbia.

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AT9

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby AT9 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:26 pm

cannibal ox wrote:Trolling aside, Wake had 28 of 184 grads in "Business & Industry" is that high? I never even pay attention to that number but it caught my eye because it was so high.


Based on previous years it's on the higher end but not crazy. I'd guess a good chunk of those are JD Advantage types working in compliance or something.

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star fox

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby star fox » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:27 pm

registering wrote:
curry1 wrote:
registering wrote:I think GULC is out? Screams "Preliminary" everywhere though

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ ... mary-2.pdf

301 BL + 35 FC with 652 total students = 51.5%

First time it's been above 50% since the ABA started tracking.


still a sinking ttt being outplaced by a regional school in Tennessee


Vandy's always been pretty strong though. From the 2005 stuff, it looks like it was on par with Boalt for NLJ250 stats.

Like Vandy, it seems like GULC actually improved in raw numbers rather than just shrinking its denominator here. It's about 33 more people landing BL+FC than the past 3 years. Kinda odd that we're seeing T13s saturating around the 70s while the lower ranked schools are starting to boost numbers.

There's always gonna be people who don't want to do the whole BigLaw thing, or are just such shittier interviews, or are self-sabotage with bad bidding, or just don't catch a big break that I wouldn't really expect those numbers to get much higher than that. Whereas there are probably a lot of smart, sociable people at the schools just below T14 that would get numbers game PWNED but do well with a better economy.

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Iwanttolawschool

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Iwanttolawschool » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:29 pm

RedPurpleBlue wrote:
PrezRand wrote:NU is at 68%?


Yup, they stayed about the same, but what's important to note is that employment in 501+ firms went from 51.4% to 57%. It looks like this years numbers were hurt by an increase in PI/Gov't from 6.8% to 10% (maybe from the $100 Pritzker gift support?) and of course the usual abnormally high 6% in business jobs form NU's large JD-MBA cohort. Unemployment went down by ~1% and ST/PT jobs went down by ~0.5%, so these numbers are definitely an equal to or an improvement over last years, even if they don't look like it from the surface.


FYI, 500+ jobs is not an indicator of prestige or desirability. If it's anything, it's the oppposite?

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star fox

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby star fox » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:30 pm

The Pritzker gift was made in the last semester these people were at the school. I'd be kinda surprised if a bunch of people who had already accepted big law offers all of a sudden opted out and reversed course into a PI gig after the donation was made.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby curry1 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:31 pm

registering wrote:
curry1 wrote:
registering wrote:I think GULC is out? Screams "Preliminary" everywhere though

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ ... mary-2.pdf

301 BL + 35 FC with 652 total students = 51.5%

First time it's been above 50% since the ABA started tracking.


still a sinking ttt being outplaced by a regional school in Tennessee


Vandy's always been pretty strong though. From the 2005 stuff, it looks like it was on par with Boalt for NLJ250 stats.

Like Vandy, it seems like GULC actually improved in raw numbers rather than just shrinking its denominator here. It's about 33 more people landing BL+FC than the past 3 years. Kinda odd that we're seeing T13s saturating around the 70s while the lower ranked schools are starting to boost numbers.



There's always going to be a limit in TLS defined placement. There will always be ~10% of the class at almost any t14 who doesn't want to do biglaw and prefers gov or pi. and firms are not going to hire people that are identifiably the bottom of the class (except maybe at HYS)



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