Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

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CR7

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby CR7 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:39 am

guybourdin wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:
guybourdin wrote:Mich also has a pretty high state clerk number here.



The fed clerk number is pretty high though. Maybe the students from UMich just opt to apply for less competitive fed circuits/districts?

above someone asked why Mich's numbers were so low and that PI doesn't totally explain it. Mich has more state clerks than Penn, UVA, and Cornell combined. That's not a bad thing - they could have sent most of those to var state supreme courts for all we know - but it just explains where some of those other students are.


How difficult is it to get a state clerking position? Could students from Penn, UVA, and Cornell be equally competitive?

dclaw93

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby dclaw93 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:41 am

guybourdin wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:
guybourdin wrote:Mich also has a pretty high state clerk number here.



The fed clerk number is pretty high though. Maybe the students from UMich just opt to apply for less competitive fed circuits/districts?

above someone asked why Mich's numbers were so low and that PI doesn't totally explain it. Mich has more state clerks than Penn, UVA, and Cornell combined. That's not a bad thing - they could have sent most of those to var state supreme courts for all we know - but it just explains where some of those other students are.

Agree with this. Mich's total clerk (fed+state/local) is 20.5%, which is huge. UVA for example is 17.6% (albeit more of these are fed - 14.5% vs. 12.8%).

Michigan also has the highest % in government of the lower T13s posted so far at 8.3% (UVA closest at 6.7%).

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby curry1 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:42 am

CR7 wrote:
guybourdin wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:
guybourdin wrote:Mich also has a pretty high state clerk number here.



The fed clerk number is pretty high though. Maybe the students from UMich just opt to apply for less competitive fed circuits/districts?

above someone asked why Mich's numbers were so low and that PI doesn't totally explain it. Mich has more state clerks than Penn, UVA, and Cornell combined. That's not a bad thing - they could have sent most of those to var state supreme courts for all we know - but it just explains where some of those other students are.


How difficult is it to get a state clerking position? Could students from Penn, UVA, and Cornell be equally competitive?


state clerkships are super variable so it's hard to know whether they are good outcomes. A clerkship on the California Supreme Court with Goodwin Liu is harder to get than some federal appellate clerkships. Intermediate state clerkship in Iowa or Minnesota not so much.

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guynourmin

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby guynourmin » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:46 am

CR7 wrote:
guybourdin wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:
guybourdin wrote:Mich also has a pretty high state clerk number here.



The fed clerk number is pretty high though. Maybe the students from UMich just opt to apply for less competitive fed circuits/districts?

above someone asked why Mich's numbers were so low and that PI doesn't totally explain it. Mich has more state clerks than Penn, UVA, and Cornell combined. That's not a bad thing - they could have sent most of those to var state supreme courts for all we know - but it just explains where some of those other students are.


How difficult is it to get a state clerking position? Could students from Penn, UVA, and Cornell be equally competitive?

there's no way to say. There are some incredible state clerkships most people would take over various federal clerkships, and, I would imagine, there are a lot of state clerkships people pursue because there were literally no other options. We assume at lower ranked schools that their state clerkships are the latter, but at a school like Michigan it could go either way. There are hundreds of people clerking at state supreme courts every year.

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CR7

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby CR7 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:50 am

curry1 wrote:
CR7 wrote:
guybourdin wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:
guybourdin wrote:Mich also has a pretty high state clerk number here.



The fed clerk number is pretty high though. Maybe the students from UMich just opt to apply for less competitive fed circuits/districts?

above someone asked why Mich's numbers were so low and that PI doesn't totally explain it. Mich has more state clerks than Penn, UVA, and Cornell combined. That's not a bad thing - they could have sent most of those to var state supreme courts for all we know - but it just explains where some of those other students are.


How difficult is it to get a state clerking position? Could students from Penn, UVA, and Cornell be equally competitive?


state clerkships are super variable so it's hard to know whether they are good outcomes. A clerkship on the California Supreme Court with Goodwin Liu is harder to get than some federal appellate clerkships. Intermediate state clerkship in Iowa or Minnesota not so much.


Thanks! Is it still safe to say Penn, UVA, and Cornell have objectively better employment numbers than Michigan, regardless of state clerkships?

Keilz

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Keilz » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:50 am

I wish I wrote down the nhmber of state Supreme Court clerkships that Michigan posted at their ASW. I'll check if I did when I got home, but she did mention it

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby curry1 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:51 am

CR7 wrote:
curry1 wrote:
CR7 wrote:
guybourdin wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:
guybourdin wrote:Mich also has a pretty high state clerk number here.



The fed clerk number is pretty high though. Maybe the students from UMich just opt to apply for less competitive fed circuits/districts?

above someone asked why Mich's numbers were so low and that PI doesn't totally explain it. Mich has more state clerks than Penn, UVA, and Cornell combined. That's not a bad thing - they could have sent most of those to var state supreme courts for all we know - but it just explains where some of those other students are.


How difficult is it to get a state clerking position? Could students from Penn, UVA, and Cornell be equally competitive?


state clerkships are super variable so it's hard to know whether they are good outcomes. A clerkship on the California Supreme Court with Goodwin Liu is harder to get than some federal appellate clerkships. Intermediate state clerkship in Iowa or Minnesota not so much.


Thanks! Is it still safe to say Penn, UVA, and Cornell have objectively better employment numbers than Michigan, regardless of state clerkships?


Yes.

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LawMan16

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby LawMan16 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:51 am

Thelaw23 wrote:When will we see CLS and NYU stats?


CLS released its numbers on April 14th last year, so hopefully this week.

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guynourmin

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby guynourmin » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:58 am

CR7 wrote:Thanks! Is it still safe to say Penn, UVA, and Cornell have objectively better employment numbers than Michigan, regardless of state clerkships?

that is not for me to tell you - there is a lot of information available for you to prioritize what is important to you. if you want biglaw, I would choose all those schools over Michigan at equal cost, sure. It depends on what you want, though - for example, over 7 years Cornell had one Skadden/EJW fellow, whereas Michigan had 21. Again, what is important to you? I don't think asking if one school has "objectively better employment numbers" is the right question. If you are choosing between these schools, then you're in a great position and you would be doing yourself a disservice by just trying to answer that question. (again, if you want biglaw, then, yes, those schools seem to be better options)

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Iwanttolawschool

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Iwanttolawschool » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:08 am

guybourdin wrote:
CR7 wrote:Thanks! Is it still safe to say Penn, UVA, and Cornell have objectively better employment numbers than Michigan, regardless of state clerkships?

that is not for me to tell you - there is a lot of information available for you to prioritize what is important to you. if you want biglaw, I would choose all those schools over Michigan at equal cost, sure. It depends on what you want, though - for example, over 7 years Cornell had one Skadden/EJW fellow, whereas Michigan had 21. Again, what is important to you? I don't think asking if one school has "objectively better employment numbers" is the right question. If you are choosing between these schools, then you're in a great position and you would be doing yourself a disservice by just trying to answer that question. (again, if you want biglaw, then, yes, those schools seem to be better options)


Penn, yes. UVA, maybe. Cornell, no. Comparing one school's % against another's % isn't necessarily an apples to apples comparison. Penn, UVA, and Michigan are held in higher regard than Cornell in the legal world. You can see this by what types of jobs/type of firms these grads end up at.

Michigan having 66% in BL + FC with the PI oriented culture Mich has is actually a surprise to me. I would have thought it would be lower. Not because these grads couldn't get some average V75 firm job, but because they don't want them.

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Aberzombie1892

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:20 am

Tulane:
199 total class size
24 full time/long term in firms of 101+
18 full time/long term in federal clerkships

= 21.11%

http://www.law.tulane.edu/uploadedFiles ... Report.pdf

cheaptilts

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby cheaptilts » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:29 am

No one has explained why Michigan kids would opt for state Supreme Court clerkships over federal clerkships at a higher rate than students at other PI-friendly t13s (or t13s in general). There's also a lack of evidence that those state and local clerkships are indeed uber-competitive SSC clerkships as opposed to just intermediate/trial court clerkships.

It's more likely that, for whatever reason, UM just does a worse job at placing kids in BL+FC than almost all of the rest of the t13
Last edited by cheaptilts on Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Robb

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Robb » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:39 am

Chicago: 78.2% (61% biglaw + 17% fed clerks) (down from 82.7% last year = -4.5%). Interesting takeaway of 100% employment overall (98% bar passage required), which I've not seen before.

Nebby

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Nebby » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:06 pm

Some of yall suck at math. Half the time I check your percentages they're wrong

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Robb

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Robb » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:32 pm

Nebby wrote:Some of yall suck at math. Half the time I check your percentages they're wrong

If you're including my post in that, pretty sure it's 78.2%, not 78.1%. .67*(.042+.132+.743)+.191*.878=78.2088%.

favabeansoup

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby favabeansoup » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:39 pm

UCLA is up.

https://law.ucla.edu/~/media/Assets/Car ... 52-45.ashx

127 grads in 100+ firms
8 grads in Fed Clerks
316 total grads

42.72% Biglaw/Fed Clerk [2015 was 45.07%, so -2.35% this year]

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LawMan16

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby LawMan16 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:44 pm

Nebby wrote:Some of yall suck at math. Half the time I check your percentages they're wrong


The Yale percentage appears to be incorrect. It should be 72.9%, not 74.4%.

101-250: 8
251-500: 6
501+: 65
FC: 69
--------
Total: 148

148 is 72.9064% of 203 total graduates.

Hikikomorist

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Hikikomorist » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:54 pm

favabeansoup wrote:UCLA is up.

https://law.ucla.edu/~/media/Assets/Car ... 52-45.ashx

127 grads in 100+ firms
8 grads in Fed Clerks
316 total grads

42.72% Biglaw/Fed Clerk [2015 was 45.07%, so -2.35% this year]

Ouch. Hope UT at least does better than this sorry performance.

Rigo

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Rigo » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:58 pm

Yeah UCLA's isn't bad but it's surprisingly weak considering peer schools are all up (no word on USC yet).

BigZuck

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby BigZuck » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:08 pm

Lol Mich

As for UCLA- much like Chicago, garbage school is garbage. Nothing to see here.

(frantically tries to think of more ways to reverse jinx UT)

(resigns self to 42% big law+federal clerk, afraid won't be able to show his face on TLS again like so many Nebbys)

(cries)

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guynourmin

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby guynourmin » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:11 pm

Robb wrote:
Nebby wrote:Some of yall suck at math. Half the time I check your percentages they're wrong

If you're including my post in that, pretty sure it's 78.2%, not 78.1%. .67*(.042+.132+.743)+.191*.878=78.2088%.

(6+19+107+36)/215 = .78140. where are you getting all your numbers?

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Torres1893

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Torres1893 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:25 pm

On reddit someone said they called the admissions office of UT to ask about it and they said they will release the info on the 15th.

Nebby

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Nebby » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:40 pm

Robb wrote:
Nebby wrote:Some of yall suck at math. Half the time I check your percentages they're wrong

If you're including my post in that, pretty sure it's 78.2%, not 78.1%. .67*(.042+.132+.743)+.191*.878=78.2088%.

what farts are you huffing?

168/215

eta: scooped

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Robb

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Robb » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:51 pm

Nebby wrote:
Robb wrote:
Nebby wrote:Some of yall suck at math. Half the time I check your percentages they're wrong

If you're including my post in that, pretty sure it's 78.2%, not 78.1%. .67*(.042+.132+.743)+.191*.878=78.2088%.

what farts are you huffing?

168/215

eta: scooped

Ah, I did not see they had the raw numbers. Much better way to do it.

loslakers

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby loslakers » Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:54 pm

Is there usually any distinction between fulltime long term school funded positions and fulltime short term school funded positions. Or are they usually both seen as equally bad?



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