Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby registering » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:19 pm

vcap180 wrote:Fordham is over 40% BLFC now?!? Wow.


151 BL + 10 FC of 384 grads. Not shabby at all. A lot of non-T13s are killing it this year.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby registering » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:20 pm

vcap180 wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
vcap180 wrote:I imagine a lot of previous classes are feeling salty right now.

One would think the market would continue trending in a positive direction for a little bit. Even if things stagnate, the graduating classes for the next few years will be significantly smaller than in previous years, which can only help the situation.


I doubt many people from the classes 2010-2012 (the worst post-recession) are looking at the statistics this year. But yeah, does suck for them because their GPA/LSAT scores were higher too and had to deal with bigger classes and smaller Big Law SA classes.



Yeah for sure. It's crazy how much of this comes down to sheer luck/timing.


In retrospect, I think the C/O 2013 had it best. Seems to be when the numbers plateaued for most T13s and they had 3 relatively good years of employment. Anyone graduating within the next 5 years is probably going to be crazy concerned about a recession.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby vcap180 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:22 pm

registering wrote:
vcap180 wrote:Fordham is over 40% BLFC now?!? Wow.


151 BL + 10 FC of 384 grads. Not shabby at all. A lot of non-T13s are killing it this year.



Definitely. It looks like their FTLT JD required went up pretty substantially as well!

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Hikikomorist » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:23 pm

registering wrote:
vcap180 wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
vcap180 wrote:I imagine a lot of previous classes are feeling salty right now.

One would think the market would continue trending in a positive direction for a little bit. Even if things stagnate, the graduating classes for the next few years will be significantly smaller than in previous years, which can only help the situation.


I doubt many people from the classes 2010-2012 (the worst post-recession) are looking at the statistics this year. But yeah, does suck for them because their GPA/LSAT scores were higher too and had to deal with bigger classes and smaller Big Law SA classes.



Yeah for sure. It's crazy how much of this comes down to sheer luck/timing.


In retrospect, I think the C/O 2013 had it best. Seems to be when the numbers plateaued for most T13s and they had 3 relatively good years of employment. Anyone graduating within the next 5 years is probably going to be crazy concerned about a recession.

Yep, I definitely wish I hadn't taken time off prior to law school at this point.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby RParadela » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:41 pm

registering wrote:
vcap180 wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
vcap180 wrote:I imagine a lot of previous classes are feeling salty right now.

One would think the market would continue trending in a positive direction for a little bit. Even if things stagnate, the graduating classes for the next few years will be significantly smaller than in previous years, which can only help the situation.


I doubt many people from the classes 2010-2012 (the worst post-recession) are looking at the statistics this year. But yeah, does suck for them because their GPA/LSAT scores were higher too and had to deal with bigger classes and smaller Big Law SA classes.



Yeah for sure. It's crazy how much of this comes down to sheer luck/timing.


In retrospect, I think the C/O 2013 had it best. Seems to be when the numbers plateaued for most T13s and they had 3 relatively good years of employment. Anyone graduating within the next 5 years is probably going to be crazy concerned about a recession.


As a 0L, my biggest fear is that a recession hits in the next few years. Graduating this or next year would be perfect IMO

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby vcap180 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:44 pm

Hikikomorist wrote:
registering wrote:
vcap180 wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
vcap180 wrote:I imagine a lot of previous classes are feeling salty right now.

One would think the market would continue trending in a positive direction for a little bit. Even if things stagnate, the graduating classes for the next few years will be significantly smaller than in previous years, which can only help the situation.


I doubt many people from the classes 2010-2012 (the worst post-recession) are looking at the statistics this year. But yeah, does suck for them because their GPA/LSAT scores were higher too and had to deal with bigger classes and smaller Big Law SA classes.



Yeah for sure. It's crazy how much of this comes down to sheer luck/timing.


In retrospect, I think the C/O 2013 had it best. Seems to be when the numbers plateaued for most T13s and they had 3 relatively good years of employment. Anyone graduating within the next 5 years is probably going to be crazy concerned about a recession.

Yep, I definitely wish I hadn't taken time off prior to law school at this point.



don't you think the moderately improved/(ing) market and decreased classes should result in comparatively better outcomes for the next 5 years or so? i feel like that wave should be somewhat long-lived, especially since applications and class sizes dont seem to show any sign of returning to where they were 5 years ago.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:44 pm

C/o 2016 is so full of win

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby carsondalywashere » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:50 pm

Where can one find the recession employment numbers for schools?

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby PrezRand » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:53 pm

Trump's presidency is clearly the best thing for biglaw

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby existentialcrisis » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:53 pm

carsondalywashere wrote:Where can one find the recession employment numbers for schools?


http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/

It seems like the Class of 2011 was the hardest hit, because they did OCI in fall of 2009.

I think LST may actually go back to 2011 as well.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby TAD » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:58 pm


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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby star fox » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:00 pm

This was the year law school enrollment started to tank. So I'm not too surprised. Good things happen when the denominator falls. Be interesting if someone just did a raw count comparison.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby vcap180 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:03 pm

star fox wrote:This was the year law school enrollment started to tank. So I'm not too surprised. Good things happen when the denominator falls. Be interesting if someone just did a raw count comparison.



right and it didnt recover, which is why i dont think the next few classes should worry much

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby curry1 » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:03 pm

TAD wrote:https://law.yale.edu/student-life/career-development/employment-data/class-2016-employment


given the footnote at the bottom, 95 grads have already lined up clerkships. That is insane, >45%. Considering how extending the hiring timeline has become (maybe not for Yalies) that means much more than 50% of YLS class of 2016 will clerk.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby registering » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:30 pm

star fox wrote:This was the year law school enrollment started to tank. So I'm not too surprised. Good things happen when the denominator falls. Be interesting if someone just did a raw count comparison.


Vandy had a smaller class in 2016 compared to 2015. Most T13s are stable right now give or take about 10-20 raw BL+FC outcomes, which is consistent with about a 3-10% variation depending on class size. All of them except Michigan and Berk have hit 70% at one point in the past 3 reports. I don't see things getting much better than this.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby proleteriate » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:40 pm

I've always been under the impression that those in the T10 (if not T13) can have biglaw if they want, and those who choose a life outside biglaw generally do so on their own volition. Is this not true?

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby star fox » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:51 pm

proleteriate wrote:I've always been under the impression that those in the T10 (if not T13) can have biglaw if they want, and those who choose a life outside biglaw generally do so on their own volition. Is this not true?

For some yes, and if you look at Yale and Stanford that's probably the case for the majority of those who don't BigLaw it up but anything beyond that is gonna be mostly people for whom it wasn't in the cards.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby cheaptilts » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:52 pm

proleteriate wrote:I've always been under the impression that those in the T10 (if not T13) can have biglaw if they want, and those who choose a life outside biglaw generally do so on their own volition. Is this not true?

This is not true for almost all of the T13. Also, schools outside the T10 at times place better, down the map, than schools within the T10. With the exception of maybe a Yalie/Stanford grad, people strike out from biglaw at every school.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby trebekismyhero » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:57 pm

vcap180 wrote:
Hikikomorist wrote:
registering wrote:
vcap180 wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
vcap180 wrote:I imagine a lot of previous classes are feeling salty right now.

One would think the market would continue trending in a positive direction for a little bit. Even if things stagnate, the graduating classes for the next few years will be significantly smaller than in previous years, which can only help the situation.


I doubt many people from the classes 2010-2012 (the worst post-recession) are looking at the statistics this year. But yeah, does suck for them because their GPA/LSAT scores were higher too and had to deal with bigger classes and smaller Big Law SA classes.



Yeah for sure. It's crazy how much of this comes down to sheer luck/timing.


In retrospect, I think the C/O 2013 had it best. Seems to be when the numbers plateaued for most T13s and they had 3 relatively good years of employment. Anyone graduating within the next 5 years is probably going to be crazy concerned about a recession.

Yep, I definitely wish I hadn't taken time off prior to law school at this point.



don't you think the moderately improved/(ing) market and decreased classes should result in comparatively better outcomes for the next 5 years or so? i feel like that wave should be somewhat long-lived, especially since applications and class sizes dont seem to show any sign of returning to where they were 5 years ago.


I don't think you can predict what outcomes will be like for the next 5 years. I think it is safe to say that the classes of 2017 and 2018 will be strong, but can't speculate beyond that. For each class it all depends on how the economy is doing first at the time of OCI because that is when firms decide how big their SA classes will be. Then second, how the economy is doing during/after your summer when offers are given.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby proleteriate » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:57 pm

star fox wrote:
proleteriate wrote:I've always been under the impression that those in the T10 (if not T13) can have biglaw if they want, and those who choose a life outside biglaw generally do so on their own volition. Is this not true?

For some yes, and if you look at Yale and Stanford that's probably the case for the majority of those who don't BigLaw it up but anything beyond that is gonna be mostly people for whom it wasn't in the cards.


So there's plenty of people at Harvard that wants it but can't get it?

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:03 am

proleteriate wrote:
star fox wrote:
proleteriate wrote:I've always been under the impression that those in the T10 (if not T13) can have biglaw if they want, and those who choose a life outside biglaw generally do so on their own volition. Is this not true?

For some yes, and if you look at Yale and Stanford that's probably the case for the majority of those who don't BigLaw it up but anything beyond that is gonna be mostly people for whom it wasn't in the cards.


So there's plenty of people at Harvard that wants it but can't get it?


I don't know about "plenty," but for HCCN there are some persons (albeit a tiny percentage) who don't get firms. At these schools its not so much about bad grades and more attributable to terrible interviewing/bad bid selection. There's no point barring all below-discretionary grades that a Chicago or Harvard or Columbia grad places his or herself entirely out of the running. I know straight B's (lowest non-discretionary grade) at CLS and straight P's at H (lowest non-discretionary grade) that have secured marketing paying firm gigs. I also know of cases of persons with grades not quite so low at each of these schools that struck out for non-grade reasons, although TBH they all landed on their feet.
Last edited by jbagelboy on Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby trebekismyhero » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:05 am

proleteriate wrote:
star fox wrote:
proleteriate wrote:I've always been under the impression that those in the T10 (if not T13) can have biglaw if they want, and those who choose a life outside biglaw generally do so on their own volition. Is this not true?

For some yes, and if you look at Yale and Stanford that's probably the case for the majority of those who don't BigLaw it up but anything beyond that is gonna be mostly people for whom it wasn't in the cards.


So there's plenty of people at Harvard that wants it but can't get it?


Actually a few people from Harvard do strike out. But I also disagree that the almost all of the people in all the schools that aren't in BL or FC struck out. At a school like NYU, I am guessing a large portion of the student body are PI gunners. And all t13 schools have decent number of ppl looking to do PI. Definitely people are striking out at all these schools, but not sure the numbers reflect all of them

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby star fox » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:08 am

trebekismyhero wrote:
proleteriate wrote:
star fox wrote:
proleteriate wrote:I've always been under the impression that those in the T10 (if not T13) can have biglaw if they want, and those who choose a life outside biglaw generally do so on their own volition. Is this not true?

For some yes, and if you look at Yale and Stanford that's probably the case for the majority of those who don't BigLaw it up but anything beyond that is gonna be mostly people for whom it wasn't in the cards.


So there's plenty of people at Harvard that wants it but can't get it?


Actually a few people from Harvard do strike out. But I also disagree that the almost all of the people in all the schools that aren't in BL or FC struck out. At a school like NYU, I am guessing a large portion of the student body are PI gunners. And all t13 schools have decent number of ppl looking to do PI. Definitely people are striking out at all these schools, but not sure the numbers reflect all of them

If you break down the numbers in the ABA Data you can probably get a decent picture. If Unemployed/Under-Employed -> Strikeouts (or constructive strikeouts). FedGov might not be. PI could go either way. Small firms -> Probably strikeout. Local Gov -> Probably strikeout. Local Clerkship -> Probably strikeout (I have heard of people whose firms deferred them so they could do a state clerkship but I dunno if this is common). Business -> Look at if the school has a big JD/MBA Program

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby Pomeranian » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:25 am

Off topic, but is ATL going to release a ranking this year?

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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Postby star fox » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:28 am

Pomeranian wrote:Off topic, but is ATL going to release a ranking this year?

Curious as to why you'd care?



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