UChicago v Michigan v Boston U (more info in post)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which law school?

UChicago (30K)
8
15%
Michigan (105K)
43
81%
Boston (full)
2
4%
 
Total votes: 53

stativus

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UChicago v Michigan v Boston U (more info in post)

Postby stativus » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:24 pm

Hey TLS, I was hoping to get some help/advice with making a decision. Nobody in my family is a lawyer or knows a lawyer well enough to ask for accurate advice, so I have no idea what to expect. Any insight would be greatly appreciated! Here's the relevant info:

- UChicago: 45K
- Michigan: 105K
- Boston U: full tuition

- LSAT 170; GPA: 3.68 (I get this question every time so I guess I'll preemptively say it now--I'm a bio major, hence the gpa); non-urm; k-jd (no law-related experience outside of classes and I've never had a job)
- I'm planning on paying for the remaining COA using loans. My financial situation is particularly iffy because my dad was just notified this week that he's being let go, and my mom has been a homemaker for 21 years now, so it's hard for either of them to find a job. I have a younger brother who'll be entering college this year and he'll probably need to take out loans as well. I'm planning on contacting both schools and seeing if they'll renegotiate scholarship.
- I'm still open to most career goals. I wouldn't mind going for public defense and I wouldn't mind going for big law. The only thing I'm really ruling out is the academic route; I can't see myself as a professor. I'm leaning toward doing a fed clerkship and then maybe in the far future becoming a judge, but between now and then I'm open to where the wind takes me. I'm trying to make a general decision that would support a change in interest.
- Most of my ties are in the NY/NJ/PA area, so I'd probably end up working there. I wouldn't be diametrically opposed to working elsewhere though.

If I should add more information, please feel free to let me know! I appreciate any and all advice!

Thanks everyone!
Last edited by stativus on Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:23 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Rigo

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Re: UChicago v Michigan (more info in post)

Postby Rigo » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:34 pm

Take the money. Michigan.

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ILoveYou

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Re: UChicago v Michigan (more info in post)

Postby ILoveYou » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:39 pm

Rigo wrote:Take the money. Michigan.


+1

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half moon

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Re: UChicago v Michigan (more info in post)

Postby half moon » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:47 pm

Unless you have an interest in high level PI or government work, take the money and go to Michigan.

GorillaWarfare

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Re: UChicago v Michigan (more info in post)

Postby GorillaWarfare » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:52 pm

try to visit Ann Arbor if you can. I was there last week and **loved** it.

I'm not sure what UChi can offer you that is worth 75,000. I think Michigan is the easy answer.

Rigo

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Re: UChicago v Michigan (more info in post)

Postby Rigo » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:55 pm

half moon wrote:Unless you have an interest in high level PI or government work, take the money and go to Michigan.

In that case I'd be crossing my fingers for NYU because Chicago LRAP really, really sucks iirc (at least compared to the rest of the T6).

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Dcc617

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Re: UChicago v Michigan (more info in post)

Postby Dcc617 » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:42 pm

Work for a couple years before you go to law school. You can save up money and get experience. Plus, your app will be stronger when you reapply.

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HillandHollow

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Re: UChicago v Michigan (more info in post)

Postby HillandHollow » Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:50 am

Rigo wrote:
half moon wrote:Unless you have an interest in high level PI or government work, take the money and go to Michigan.

In that case I'd be crossing my fingers for NYU because Chicago LRAP really, really sucks iirc (at least compared to the rest of the T6).



What? Chicago has the best LRAP in the T14 (100% payment if salary under $80k, does not take spousal income into account)

ETA: go to Michigan, though, unless UC dramatically increases their money

californiauser

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Re: UChicago v Michigan (more info in post)

Postby californiauser » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:57 am

half moon wrote:Unless you have an interest in high level PI or government work, take the money and go to Michigan.


Michigan is still the better option under OP's current circumstance.

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Re: UChicago v Michigan (more info in post)

Postby Rigo » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:06 am

HillandHollow wrote:
Rigo wrote:
half moon wrote:Unless you have an interest in high level PI or government work, take the money and go to Michigan.

In that case I'd be crossing my fingers for NYU because Chicago LRAP really, really sucks iirc (at least compared to the rest of the T6).

What? Chicago has the best LRAP in the T14 (100% payment if salary under $80k, does not take spousal income into account)

Nearly everyone considers HYS+Columbia far superior because they're non-IBR integrated (Columbia you'd have to choose that track). I personally think NYU is superior because its the same no payment up until $80k deal, but NYU doesn't have an income limit whereas Chicago does ($80k). And I was adding in the NYU PI culture and dedicated institutional support, but that's not exactly quantifiable.

However you slice it, UChicago definitely does not have the BEST LRAP.

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HillandHollow

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Re: UChicago v Michigan (more info in post)

Postby HillandHollow » Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:42 pm

Rigo wrote:
HillandHollow wrote:
Rigo wrote:
half moon wrote:Unless you have an interest in high level PI or government work, take the money and go to Michigan.

In that case I'd be crossing my fingers for NYU because Chicago LRAP really, really sucks iirc (at least compared to the rest of the T6).

What? Chicago has the best LRAP in the T14 (100% payment if salary under $80k, does not take spousal income into account)

Nearly everyone considers HYS+Columbia far superior because they're non-IBR integrated (Columbia you'd have to choose that track). I personally think NYU is superior because its the same no payment up until $80k deal, but NYU doesn't have an income limit whereas Chicago does ($80k). And I was adding in the NYU PI culture and dedicated institutional support, but that's not exactly quantifiable.

However you slice it, UChicago definitely does not have the BEST LRAP.


Good points, I don't disagree. Saying that UC's LRAP sucks though is sort of silly. In any event, UC's particular application of LRAP was best for my personal circumstances, but that won't be true for everyone. Anyway, I still think Michigan is the best choice here.

WheninLaw

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Re: UChicago v Michigan (more info in post)

Postby WheninLaw » Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:47 pm

Rigo wrote:
half moon wrote:Unless you have an interest in high level PI or government work, take the money and go to Michigan.

In that case I'd be crossing my fingers for NYU because Chicago LRAP really, really sucks iirc (at least compared to the rest of the T6).


Definitely not the best, but "sucks" is really off base.

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Re: UChicago v Michigan (more info in post)

Postby Rigo » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:07 pm

WheninLaw wrote:
Rigo wrote:
half moon wrote:Unless you have an interest in high level PI or government work, take the money and go to Michigan.

In that case I'd be crossing my fingers for NYU because Chicago LRAP really, really sucks iirc (at least compared to the rest of the T6).

Definitely not the best, but "sucks" is really off base.

It's all relative. I'll change my statement to "falls short of its peers and leaves a lot to be desired so don't take out basically sticker debt thinking it will be all fine and dandy with Chicago LRAP unless you do through research."* Better?

I mean lets just split the different between "the best" and "sucks" howbowdah

WheninLaw

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Re: UChicago v Michigan (more info in post)

Postby WheninLaw » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:22 pm

Rigo wrote:
WheninLaw wrote:
Rigo wrote:
half moon wrote:Unless you have an interest in high level PI or government work, take the money and go to Michigan.

In that case I'd be crossing my fingers for NYU because Chicago LRAP really, really sucks iirc (at least compared to the rest of the T6).

Definitely not the best, but "sucks" is really off base.

It's all relative. I'll change my statement to "falls short of its peers and leaves a lot to be desired so don't take out basically sticker debt thinking it will be all fine and dandy with Chicago LRAP unless you do through research."* Better?

I mean lets just split the different between "the best" and "sucks" howbowdah


Nah, I disagree. What am I missing here? Quick read of Columbia shows:

Annual Income Portion of Annual Income Expected to be Applied Toward All Eligible Loan Repayments
$50,000 or less - 0%
$50,001 and over - 34.5% of amount over $50,000

Chicago seems to be far superior to that.

Rigo

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Re: UChicago v Michigan (more info in post)

Postby Rigo » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:44 pm

WheninLaw wrote:
Rigo wrote:
WheninLaw wrote:
Rigo wrote:
half moon wrote:Unless you have an interest in high level PI or government work, take the money and go to Michigan.

In that case I'd be crossing my fingers for NYU because Chicago LRAP really, really sucks iirc (at least compared to the rest of the T6).

Definitely not the best, but "sucks" is really off base.

It's all relative. I'll change my statement to "falls short of its peers and leaves a lot to be desired so don't take out basically sticker debt thinking it will be all fine and dandy with Chicago LRAP unless you do through research."* Better?

I mean lets just split the different between "the best" and "sucks" howbowdah


Nah, I disagree. What am I missing here? Quick read of Columbia shows:

Annual Income Portion of Annual Income Expected to be Applied Toward All Eligible Loan Repayments
$50,000 or less - 0%
$50,001 and over - 34.5% of amount over $50,000

Chicago seems to be far superior to that.

That's the non-integrated with IBR plan that you can CHOOSE to do. The integrated plan is no contribution under 100k. Columbia could be called the best LRAP in the country. It doesn't have the non-legal job flexibility of a Yale or (sometimes) Harvard, but if you are commiteed to PI for 10 years, you will likely pay nothing since 100k is a lot.

Rigo

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Re: UChicago v Michigan v Boston U (more info in post)

Postby Rigo » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:46 pm

Here's the T14 LRAP thread with a nice overview spreadsheet.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=262492

historyminor

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Re: UChicago v Michigan v Boston U (more info in post)

Postby historyminor » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:10 pm

So the difference between the Columbia and UChicago LRAP programs is a phase-out vs. a steep cliff. With Chicago, your payments will look like this:
$79,999 or less - Chicago covers 100% of your loan payments
$80,000 or more - Chicago covers 0% of your loan payments

This means that in a lot of public interest jobs, you're not going to be eligible for any LRAP at all:
[*]Your second year of federal judicial clerkship in a major city
[*]Many State Supreme Court clerkships
[*]Federal agency jobs rated GS12 and above (basically, second-year attorney)
[*]Many public interest and local government jobs in high cost-of-living locations (e.g., some San Francisco nonprofits that pay $90,000)

The UChicago system also sets up a situation where a small raise could result in a sudden, massive drop in take-home income. Let's say you're making $79,200 as an Assistant Attorney General II in Richmond, VA. Chicago pays all of your loans, which are probably somewhere around $500-800 a month. The next year, you get a small cost-of-living increase of $800. Because you hit exactly $80,000, Chicago will cover none of your loans, and that $800 salary increase costs you at least $5000.

Of course, you're still better off with the $80,000 cap than Columbia's $50,000 phase-out line, since your expected contribution at a salary of $79,200 would exceed your actual IBR payments under the Columbia plan. However, a lot of schools start their phaseouts closer to $80,000, and so Chicago is definitely falling behind the pack, especially as the government and nonprofits make cost-of-living salary increases.

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Re: UChicago v Michigan v Boston U (more info in post)

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:37 pm

Michigan unless you can get substantially more money from Chicago.



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