UChicago/Michigan/UCLA Forum

[zesty]

Hey TLS, I was hoping to get your thoughts on choosing which school to attend next year.

These are the main options I'm considering:

UChicago ($45k)
Michigan ($120k)
UCLA (full)

I've also gotten into Columbia (no word on $ yet but obviously not expecting much) and Duke/Cornell with $$$ but less than what Mich offered. I live in LA and would commute to school if I went to UCLA, so my COA would be relatively low and I would probably not have to take out any debt, which is definitely appealing. I want to do PI and am aware of the decent loan repayment programs at some of the schools I'm considering, but I would feel more comfortable not having to worry about the debt. In terms of location, I'd like to have a decent amount of flexibility after graduating, but I wouldn't necessarily mind staying in California if I had to.

Thanks in advance!

[bruinfan10]

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[cavalier1138]

What kind of PI do you want to do? UCLA will keep you confined to California, so as long as you're actually comfortable with that, then take the no-debt option. But Michigan has a national reach and will make you competitive for higher-level jobs.

Is NYU not on the table? Seems weird that you mentioned Columbia acceptance but not NYU, considering your focus.

[bruinfan10]

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[cavalier1138]

What kind of PI do you want to do? UCLA will keep you confined to California, so as long as you're actually comfortable with that, then take the no-debt option. But Michigan has a national reach and will make you competitive for higher-level jobs.

Is NYU not on the table? Seems weird that you mentioned Columbia acceptance but not NYU, considering your focus.

dude what is your background. do you work in pi right now? because this seems pulled-out-of-your-butt. ucla limits you to CA for biglaw, for sure, but i don't know that that's the case for PI, and i doubt that michigan would place you better in "local pi" all over the country. i went to michigan. and i think you're making that up. but i could be wrong.

also, there's a metric ton of high quality PI available in california generally and LA in particular.

I get that you really loved undergrad at the school, but the OP specifically said, "In terms of location, I'd like to have a decent amount of flexibility after graduating, but I wouldn't necessarily mind staying in California if I had to." That's a far cry from your assertion that they "want to stay in CA".

UCLA limits you to California, period. When people talk about regional schools, they aren't just talking about biglaw firms. The OP (as far as we know) has no ties outside of California, so they will not have options outside the state from UCLA. I'm sure there are lots of wonderful options in LA for PI law, but if the OP wants to work for Amnesty, Michigan will give them a much better shot at that. I didn't say that Michigan sets anyone up better for "local PI" across the country; I said Michigan has national reach and would open up more high-level PI possibilities for the OP. You don't have to stay in Ann Arbor after graduating.

Anyway, I also said that as long as the OP wants the outcomes that UCLA offers, they should take UCLA. No need to take umbrage on behalf of your alma mater.

[bruinfan10]

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[zesty]

What kind of PI do you want to do? UCLA will keep you confined to California, so as long as you're actually comfortable with that, then take the no-debt option. But Michigan has a national reach and will make you competitive for higher-level jobs.

Is NYU not on the table? Seems weird that you mentioned Columbia acceptance but not NYU, considering your focus.

I'm also pretty open in terms of PI - interested in human rights and environmental law, but I could see myself doing something in a different field if the opportunity came up. *insert spiel about helping the world in some way*

I did get into NYU, but unfortunately with no aid, so I'm not really considering it at this point. Michigan is attractive, as you mentioned, primarily because of the national reach. I'll be okay with staying in CA, but it would be nice to have the freedom to go elsewhere if I wanted to.

[cavalier1138]

What kind of PI do you want to do? UCLA will keep you confined to California, so as long as you're actually comfortable with that, then take the no-debt option. But Michigan has a national reach and will make you competitive for higher-level jobs.

Is NYU not on the table? Seems weird that you mentioned Columbia acceptance but not NYU, considering your focus.

I'm also pretty open in terms of PI - interested in human rights and environmental law, but I could see myself doing something in a different field if the opportunity came up. *insert spiel about helping the world in some way*

I did get into NYU, but unfortunately with no aid, so I'm not really considering it at this point. Michigan is attractive, as you mentioned, primarily because of the national reach. I'll be okay with staying in CA, but it would be nice to have the freedom to go elsewhere if I wanted to.

Well, it's a toss-up. I'd try to negotiate with NYU before entirely giving up there. But ultimately, if you want the freedom to be outside of CA, then UCLA just won't give you that freedom.

Look in LA. If there are organizations you really want to work for in the areas you want to work that are based in LA, then you can avoid taking on any debt and still end up with a job you want. If your goal organizations are in other parts of the country (and with a lot of human rights work, NY/DC are generally bigger hubs than LA), then I think you could do worse than to rely on Michigan's LRAP. But make sure you talk with their financial aid office, especially about the possibility of PSLF being taken away/limited, because you want to be fully aware of what your options are.

I'd just generally ignore anyone claiming that the PI opportunities from Michigan and UCLA are comparable. That's absolute nonsense, and LRAP should be a huge part of your debt-repayment considerations if you're committed to a PI track.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure what's with all the zealous UCLA advocates lately, but the jump in the rankings didn't suddenly give the school national reach. It's still a great option for someone who knows they want to work in California, but the job opportunities aren't comparable to a school like Michigan.

[zesty]

Well, it's a toss-up. I'd try to negotiate with NYU before entirely giving up there. But ultimately, if you want the freedom to be outside of CA, then UCLA just won't give you that freedom.

Look in LA. If there are organizations you really want to work for in the areas you want to work that are based in LA, then you can avoid taking on any debt and still end up with a job you want. If your goal organizations are in other parts of the country (and with a lot of human rights work, NY/DC are generally bigger hubs than LA), then I think you could do worse than to rely on Michigan's LRAP. But make sure you talk with their financial aid office, especially about the possibility of PSLF being taken away/limited, because you want to be fully aware of what your options are.

I'd just generally ignore anyone claiming that the PI opportunities from Michigan and UCLA are comparable. That's absolute nonsense, and LRAP should be a huge part of your debt-repayment considerations if you're committed to a PI track.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure what's with all the zealous UCLA advocates lately, but the jump in the rankings didn't suddenly give the school national reach. It's still a great option for someone who knows they want to work in California, but the job opportunities aren't comparable to a school like Michigan.

Thanks, that's all really useful information. I'm going to see if I can up Michigan because given my general uncertainty, I think it might be my best option, and an improved offer would probably seal the deal.

Will also definitely look into LA-based PI orgs, to get a look at the situation if I decided to attend.

[dabigchina]

OP, are you from California? I would hate for you to move to CA and then hate it.

[bruinfan10]

Well, it's a toss-up. I'd try to negotiate with NYU before entirely giving up there. But ultimately, if you want the freedom to be outside of CA, then UCLA just won't give you that freedom.

Look in LA. If there are organizations you really want to work for in the areas you want to work that are based in LA, then you can avoid taking on any debt and still end up with a job you want. If your goal organizations are in other parts of the country (and with a lot of human rights work, NY/DC are generally bigger hubs than LA), then I think you could do worse than to rely on Michigan's LRAP. But make sure you talk with their financial aid office, especially about the possibility of PSLF being taken away/limited, because you want to be fully aware of what your options are.

I'd just generally ignore anyone claiming that the PI opportunities from Michigan and UCLA are comparable. That's absolute nonsense, and LRAP should be a huge part of your debt-repayment considerations if you're committed to a PI track.

Edit: Also, I'm not sure what's with all the zealous UCLA advocates lately, but the jump in the rankings didn't suddenly give the school national reach. It's still a great option for someone who knows they want to work in California, but the job opportunities aren't comparable to a school like Michigan.

Thanks, that's all really useful information. I'm going to see if I can up Michigan because given my general uncertainty, I think it might be my best option, and an improved offer would probably seal the deal.

Will also definitely look into LA-based PI orgs, to get a look at the situation if I decided to attend.

you do you duder. dean z very very rarely negotiates schollys, but if you haven't yet told her about your full ride from ucla, and that wasn't already taken into account in your original scholarship offer, she may move a tiny bit. michigan might place marginally better in dc or nyc pi, but i can't quantify that for you. enjoy debt.

[Rigo]

OP, are you from California? I would hate for you to move to CA and then hate it.

Read the OP duder.

[dabigchina]

OP, are you from California? I would hate for you to move to CA and then hate it.

Read the OP duder.

Derp

[HillandHollow]

What kind of PI do you want to do? UCLA will keep you confined to California, so as long as you're actually comfortable with that, then take the no-debt option. But Michigan has a national reach and will make you competitive for higher-level jobs.

Is NYU not on the table? Seems weird that you mentioned Columbia acceptance but not NYU, considering your focus.

I'm also pretty open in terms of PI - interested in human rights and environmental law, but I could see myself doing something in a different field if the opportunity came up. *insert spiel about helping the world in some way*

I did get into NYU, but unfortunately with no aid, so I'm not really considering it at this point. Michigan is attractive, as you mentioned, primarily because of the national reach. I'll be okay with staying in CA, but it would be nice to have the freedom to go elsewhere if I wanted to.

I don't know what you should do ultimately, but consider floating your UM money by UChi and see if they give you any more. The International Human Rights Clinic at UC is dope, and the school's LRAP is the best available.