UVA v Colorado

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SolRs

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UVA v Colorado

Postby SolRs » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:06 pm

UVA has an ideal program for someone who is interested in working in immigration/human rights and international law (I've been doing advocacy, public-interest, and immigration work now for 7 years).

I had a pending application with UVA for months and moved forward with the idea of selecting another school. I had good, even great, offers from many schools all over the spectrum. I decided Colorado would be my ideal workplace post graduation and moved forward with the idea of going there. Despite not having a T20 school, the various attorneys I met with in the area were persistent in their opinions that the network system in the state is superb and that going to a school in the state with networking and intern/externships is preferable to going to a better ranked school in another state. I got a full-ride to one Colorado school (e.g. no cost) and a 65% scholarship to another (tuition would total 40k, with the possibility of additional scholarships)

Anyways, long story short, I am now in the same boat as everyone else.... trying to decipher where to go and what to do. I ruled out all the other schools, primarily for livability reasons. I don't want to move again in 3 years. Butttttt UVA came back and not only offered admission, but also offered a $50k scholarship. That said, it's 59k to go there a year, so tuition cost over the 3 years would still be about $120k. That's a HUGE difference (and doesn't account for living expenses).

I recognize that UVA's reputation alone would open doors I may not otherwise have available. But, considering that I don't want big law or corporate law, that I'm debt adverse (particularly because I likely won't be making bank after graduation), and that I can see myself living out west long-term, this decision is making me go nuts. Logistically, all things point to CO. Idealistically, UVA. Their program is unbelievable. And, come on, let's agree that turning down a T10 school with scholarship money is ROUGH.

Anyone in a similar boat? Any advice?
Last edited by SolRs on Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

somedeadman

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Re: UVA v Colorado

Postby somedeadman » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:08 pm

0L, but this seems like an easy Colorado choice


Edit - get Boulder to give you more money and go there
Last edited by somedeadman on Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Rigo

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Re: UVA v Colorado

Postby Rigo » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:15 pm

Can you just say which schools you're talking about?
University of Denver at full scholarship and UC-Boulder at 65% scholarship? Those are the only schools I can think of.

Are you talking closer to immigration attorney or international human rights?
Your experience looks good, but I just want to be clear on what you're thinking here.

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UVA2B

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Re: UVA v Colorado

Postby UVA2B » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:28 pm

Rigo wrote:Can you just say which schools you're talking about?
University of Denver at full scholarship and UC-Boulder at 65% scholarship? Those are the only schools I can think of.

Are you talking closer to immigration attorney or international human rights?
Your experience looks good, but I just want to be clear on what you're thinking here.


This is an important distinction that probably gets conflated far too often. If immigration attorney, try to negotiate Boulder up to closer to a full ride and go there. If true IHR, neither will give you realistic options to do it (UVA at top of class who continues to drive to that goal has a shot, but so many chips have to fall in your favor that I wouldn't advise planning on it).

If you want CO practice, Boulder for free or close to it is your best option, provided your goals are more modest as mentioned above. If you want IHR, you should look into that career path more substantively, because it's a bloodbath from pretty much everywhere and involves so much luck and so many connections to get there that no one should go to law school assuming its a realistic possibility.

SolRs

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Re: UVA v Colorado

Postby SolRs » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:17 pm

Rigo wrote:Can you just say which schools you're talking about?
University of Denver at full scholarship and UC-Boulder at 65% scholarship? Those are the only schools I can think of.

Are you talking closer to immigration attorney or international human rights?
Your experience looks good, but I just want to be clear on what you're thinking here.


Sorry - I figured it didn't really matter too much because it's really a CO vs VA debate. But, yup... DU full, UC 65%. The plan has always been to continue with immigration law (perhaps specializing or dabbling in another more lucrative field as well, such as estate planning, real estate), but I've more recently become interested in larger scale advocacy in human rights and international law. I guess to answer your question, I'm not convinced on a career in international Law/HR, but definitely interested. UVA would definitely a better bet for HR/international, and has a pretty well-established immigration law program (clinics, courses, internships). But, because immigration law is really a niche field, I've been told by many immigration attorneys (big-law and private practice alike) that networking and experience in the field actually surpass school ranking (to an extent, of course). Hence, why I'm struggling with the debt v. cost. v location decision.

SolRs

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Re: UVA v Colorado

Postby SolRs » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:21 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Rigo wrote:Can you just say which schools you're talking about?
University of Denver at full scholarship and UC-Boulder at 65% scholarship? Those are the only schools I can think of.

Are you talking closer to immigration attorney or international human rights?
Your experience looks good, but I just want to be clear on what you're thinking here.


This is an important distinction that probably gets conflated far too often. If immigration attorney, try to negotiate Boulder up to closer to a full ride and go there. If true IHR, neither will give you realistic options to do it (UVA at top of class who continues to drive to that goal has a shot, but so many chips have to fall in your favor that I wouldn't advise planning on it).

If you want CO practice, Boulder for free or close to it is your best option, provided your goals are more modest as mentioned above. If you want IHR, you should look into that career path more substantively, because it's a bloodbath from pretty much everywhere and involves so much luck and so many connections to get there that no one should go to law school assuming its a realistic possibility.


Interesting perspective. Never really thought of HR law as being a bloodbath, though I know many of the large-scale positions are highly coveted and likely out of reach. That said, I'm ok with doing something on a smaller-scale. I'm not willing to throw away my entire personal life to get those highly coveted jobs.

UVA would be better for any and all in terms of the programs offered and connections post-grad, but the cost and livability of VA long-term (I'd prefer to not have to move again in three years) are overwhelming.

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TripleM

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Re: UVA v Colorado

Postby TripleM » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:58 pm

SolRs wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Interesting perspective. Never really thought of HR law as being a bloodbath, though I know many of the large-scale positions are highly coveted and likely out of reach. That said, I'm ok with doing something on a smaller-scale. I'm not willing to throw away my entire personal life to get those highly coveted jobs.

UVA would be better for any and all in terms of the programs offered and connections post-grad, but the cost and livability of VA long-term (I'd prefer to not have to move again in three years) are overwhelming.


I also think you should push CU (I know, I know... it just what they call it) for more money. You may want to try to use DU to bargain even though they're not close in the rankings. It's definitely their primary competition.

I'm in at at CU and DU (yep, this one, too) as well. I've lived in Colorado for 15 years and I'm strongly considering staying in Colorado to attend law school. I know a ton of attorneys and I've been grilling them about jobs. I can tell you that both schools are highly respected locally. You can definitely get a decent job in the Colorado market out of either schools and whether you're looking at PI or BL you're going to find that those two are the dominant schools and the jobs are about equally represented.

There are many non-profits and other doing immigration work. International stuff might be a little more difficult, unless you're willing to do Big Law. There are a number of firms here that do international corporate work.

Like yourself, I've got a PI tilt. In fact, that's my primary goal. I know faculty at CU and I can say that their PI chops are legit. They're smart and passionate. While they don't have a PI center, they're very willing to give tons of hands-on help to PI students. I'm really impressed with CU. It started as a backup school but it's moved well above back-up at this point. I don't know faculty at DU so I can't offer any opinions there. In general, I feel that both schools are better than their ranking.

I'm in a couple of t14/t10 and I'm still seriously considering staying here.

SolRs

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Re: UVA v Colorado

Postby SolRs » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:39 am

TripleM wrote:
SolRs wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
Interesting perspective. Never really thought of HR law as being a bloodbath, though I know many of the large-scale positions are highly coveted and likely out of reach. That said, I'm ok with doing something on a smaller-scale. I'm not willing to throw away my entire personal life to get those highly coveted jobs.

UVA would be better for any and all in terms of the programs offered and connections post-grad, but the cost and livability of VA long-term (I'd prefer to not have to move again in three years) are overwhelming.


I also think you should push CU (I know, I know... it just what they call it) for more money. You may want to try to use DU to bargain even though they're not close in the rankings. It's definitely their primary competition.

I'm in at at CU and DU (yep, this one, too) as well. I've lived in Colorado for 15 years and I'm strongly considering staying in Colorado to attend law school. I know a ton of attorneys and I've been grilling them about jobs. I can tell you that both schools are highly respected locally. You can definitely get a decent job in the Colorado market out of either schools and whether you're looking at PI or BL you're going to find that those two are the dominant schools and the jobs are about equally represented.

There are many non-profits and other doing immigration work. International stuff might be a little more difficult, unless you're willing to do Big Law. There are a number of firms here that do international corporate work.

Like yourself, I've got a PI tilt. In fact, that's my primary goal. I know faculty at CU and I can say that their PI chops are legit. They're smart and passionate. While they don't have a PI center, they're very willing to give tons of hands-on help to PI students. I'm really impressed with CU. It started as a backup school but it's moved well above back-up at this point. I don't know faculty at DU so I can't offer any opinions there. In general, I feel that both schools are better than their ranking.

I'm in a couple of t14/t10 and I'm still seriously considering staying here.


Sounds like we are deliberating much of the same. I'm going to PM you! :)



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