Page 3 of 4

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:50 am
by Malarkey
.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:55 am
by Malarkey
.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:02 am
by Itiswritten
Malarkey wrote:
Itiswritten wrote: Yale, Harvard, Columbia, Penn. Cornell doesn't count as an Ivy League in any way outside of name and history. Everyone knows it, and the statistics are clear. Cornell is a peer school with UCLA and anyone who thinks otherwise is pretentiously clinging on to the 'Ivy League' name with their head in the sand.


While I appreciate your contribution to this thread regarding your employment, I've never understood this line of criticism. I went to undergrad on the west coast so I have no attachment to Cornell, but the whole "not a real Ivy" shtick is baseless. First of all, what exactly do you think qualifies a school as an Ivy? If Cornell lacks some level of intellectual rigor, I'm assuming you'd also cross Brown and Dartmouth off the list.

Also, what statistics are you talking about? The ones you posted were about total partners per school, which is largely affected by total class size. That statistic certainly seems less important than say, this: https://www.lstreports.com/national/ which places Cornell at #3 for employment score. UCLA places well below.

And If we're talking about merit of the university as whole, as you seem to be suggesting with the Ivy thing, I can easily pull out random statistics that make Cornell look better than other places. Let's take the number nobel laureates affiliated with the school, for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_university_affiliation
Cornell has the 9th most nobel laureates of any university in the world. That's ahead of every Ivy except Harvard and Columbia, and way ahead of UCLA.

But my point is not that Cornell is better than UCLA or that it deserves "Ivy status." I went to a UC for undergrad, so if anything, I feel an attachment to UCLA, and I agree that Cornell and UCLA are basically peers. My point is that this line of argument against Cornell is an exercise in reductive reasoning and pretentiousness. Now we should probably move on before this devolves into another thread about lay prestige.

UVA2B wrote:TL:DR

If Biglaw>CA law: Cornell
If CA law>Biglaw: UCLA
If CA law=Biglaw: quibble over differences in national reach and placement power in LA. Make a decision if a breeze ever pushes you off the fence.


This sums it up pretty well.


An Ivy League lawschool is defined by its employment statistics.

Cornell is closer to UCLA than it is to Penn, let alone Columbia or Harvard. There is nothing controversial about realizing what defines a law school (i.e. Employment). Neither Brown nor Dartmouth have law schools, so they're irrelevant. It has nothing to do with lay prestige (Chicago is more of a peer school with HYCP than Cornell is, and it has little to no lay prestige). Cornell isn't comparable to HYS or CCN so it shouldn't be thought of as in the same category (nor should UCLA for that matter).

So why the hell are you talking about undergrad? No one gives a shit about undergrad, this is a law school forum.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:11 am
by Malarkey
.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:13 am
by runinthefront
Itiswritten wrote:
An Ivy League lawschool is defined by its employment statistics.

Cornell is closer to UCLA than it is to Penn, let alone Columbia or Harvard. There is nothing controversial about realizing what defines a law school (i.e. Employment). Neither Brown nor Dartmouth have law schools, so they're irrelevant. It has nothing to do with lay prestige. Cornell isn't comparable to HYS or CCN so it shouldn't be thought of as in the same category (nor should UCLA for that matter).

So why the hell are you talking about undergrad? No one gives a shit about undergrad, this is a law school forum.

https://www.lstreports.com/compare/ucla/penn/cornell/

Image

versus:
Image

https://www.lstreports.com/compare/ucla ... ilt/texas/

I agree with your point: schools (and peers) should be defined in relation to their employment statistics. I think it's laughable to suggest Cornell is closer to UCLA then Penn, however, whether we're looking at biglaw numbers only or even total employment. You made a pretty uninformed comment, so I guess I'm just going to stop conversing with you now.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:17 am
by kingpin101
Itiswritten wrote:
Malarkey wrote:
Itiswritten wrote: Yale, Harvard, Columbia, Penn. Cornell doesn't count as an Ivy League in any way outside of name and history. Everyone knows it, and the statistics are clear. Cornell is a peer school with UCLA and anyone who thinks otherwise is pretentiously clinging on to the 'Ivy League' name with their head in the sand.


While I appreciate your contribution to this thread regarding your employment, I've never understood this line of criticism. I went to undergrad on the west coast so I have no attachment to Cornell, but the whole "not a real Ivy" shtick is baseless. First of all, what exactly do you think qualifies a school as an Ivy? If Cornell lacks some level of intellectual rigor, I'm assuming you'd also cross Brown and Dartmouth off the list.

Also, what statistics are you talking about? The ones you posted were about total partners per school, which is largely affected by total class size. That statistic certainly seems less important than say, this: https://www.lstreports.com/national/ which places Cornell at #3 for employment score. UCLA places well below.

And If we're talking about merit of the university as whole, as you seem to be suggesting with the Ivy thing, I can easily pull out random statistics that make Cornell look better than other places. Let's take the number nobel laureates affiliated with the school, for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_university_affiliation
Cornell has the 9th most nobel laureates of any university in the world. That's ahead of every Ivy except Harvard and Columbia, and way ahead of UCLA.

But my point is not that Cornell is better than UCLA or that it deserves "Ivy status." I went to a UC for undergrad, so if anything, I feel an attachment to UCLA, and I agree that Cornell and UCLA are basically peers. My point is that this line of argument against Cornell is an exercise in reductive reasoning and pretentiousness. Now we should probably move on before this devolves into another thread about lay prestige.

UVA2B wrote:TL:DR

If Biglaw>CA law: Cornell
If CA law>Biglaw: UCLA
If CA law=Biglaw: quibble over differences in national reach and placement power in LA. Make a decision if a breeze ever pushes you off the fence.


This sums it up pretty well.


An Ivy League lawschool is defined by its employment statistics.

Cornell is closer to UCLA than it is to Penn, let alone Columbia or Harvard. There is nothing controversial about realizing what defines a law school (i.e. Employment). Neither Brown nor Dartmouth have law schools, so they're irrelevant. It has nothing to do with lay prestige (Chicago is more of a peer school with HYCP than Cornell is, and it has little to no lay prestige). Cornell isn't comparable to HYS or CCN so it shouldn't be thought of as in the same category (nor should UCLA for that matter).

So why the hell are you talking about undergrad? No one gives a shit about undergrad, this is a law school forum.

This is ridiculous. Anyone who gave a cursory look at the employment stats would realize that Cornell and Penn crush UCLA in terms of placement into biglaw + fed clerkships.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:23 am
by Itiswritten
Cornell is not a peer school with any other ivy and, regarding earlier, they place like 10 people in California per year.

But I'll let you Cornell students cling to that national-placement idea and the whole 'ivy-league' thing. Lol.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:27 am
by runinthefront
Itiswritten wrote:Cornell is not a peer school with any other ivy and, regarding earlier, they place like 10 people in California per year.

But I'll let you Cornell students cling to that national-placement idea and the whole 'ivy-league' thing. Lol.

I don't think any Cornell law student in this thread ever mentioned Cornell being an Ivy League school as a reason why it's an objectively better school, outcome-wise, than UCLA. What a weird retort.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:31 am
by Malarkey
.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:34 am
by Itiswritten
Malarkey wrote:
Itiswritten wrote:Cornell is not a peer school with any other ivy and, regarding earlier, they place like 10 people in California per year.

But I'll let you Cornell students cling to that national-placement idea and the whole 'ivy-league' thing. Lol.


So you ignored the link I posted to LawSchoolTransparency, and then runinthefront posted a massive graphic that you still managed to ignore. You're not making the case for UCLA very compelling here.


You're right- that was a little snarky of me.

OP, long story short, do your research.
In the absence of data (I'm on my phone) it comes down to two things: We have sunshine and people don't kill themselves here.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:44 am
by mjb447
Hey, Cornell's JD program is a lot better than Princeton's.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:48 am
by Malarkey
.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:49 am
by Malarkey
.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:49 am
by UVA2B
Itiswritten wrote:
Malarkey wrote:
Itiswritten wrote:Cornell is not a peer school with any other ivy and, regarding earlier, they place like 10 people in California per year.

But I'll let you Cornell students cling to that national-placement idea and the whole 'ivy-league' thing. Lol.


So you ignored the link I posted to LawSchoolTransparency, and then runinthefront posted a massive graphic that you still managed to ignore. You're not making the case for UCLA very compelling here.


You're right- that was a little snarky of me.

OP, long story short, do your research.
In the absence of data (I'm on my phone) it comes down to two things: We have sunshine and people don't kill themselves here.


*Brilliant Cornell Admissions Officer trolling

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:58 am
by Rigo
Sorry but Cornell a league above UCLA when it comes to cold hard objective numbers.
The only reason to pick UCLA at equal cost is for subjective preferences.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:06 pm
by Rigo
And there's not anything wrong with picking UCLA if you truly want California and would be very unhappy with NYC biglaw.

Maybe if you could get $30k more from UCLA it might tip the scales a bit more.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:12 pm
by ponderingmeerkat
Just in here to note the spicy hot takes coming from LA these days now GULC is ranked 15 along side UCLA. Just one time co-ranked with Georgetown and every baby blue Bruin thinks they are taking down Duke/Cornell/Northwestern.

And they said UT was "gettin' to big for their britches, partner".

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:16 pm
by Thomas Hagan, ESQ.
Itiswritten wrote:
Malarkey wrote:
Itiswritten wrote:Cornell is not a peer school with any other ivy and, regarding earlier, they place like 10 people in California per year.

But I'll let you Cornell students cling to that national-placement idea and the whole 'ivy-league' thing. Lol.


So you ignored the link I posted to LawSchoolTransparency, and then runinthefront posted a massive graphic that you still managed to ignore. You're not making the case for UCLA very compelling here.


You're right- that was a little snarky of me.

OP, long story short, do your research.
In the absence of data (I'm on my phone) it comes down to two things: We have sunshine and people don't kill themselves here.


**Accuses everyone of blindly defending Cornell. Blindly defends UCLA.***

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:17 pm
by Itiswritten
ponderingmeerkat wrote:Just in here to note the spicy hot takes coming from LA these days now GULC is ranked 15 along side UCLA. Just one time co-ranked with Georgetown and every baby blue Bruin thinks they are taking down Duke/Cornell/Northwestern.

And they said UT was "gettin' to big for their britches, partner".


You heard it here first. UCLA jumps to 12 next year and knocks Berkeley down and pushes ivy-league imposter Cornell out of t-14

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:19 pm
by Rigo
Itiswritten wrote:
ponderingmeerkat wrote:Just in here to note the spicy hot takes coming from LA these days now GULC is ranked 15 along side UCLA. Just one time co-ranked with Georgetown and every baby blue Bruin thinks they are taking down Duke/Cornell/Northwestern.

And they said UT was "gettin' to big for their britches, partner".


You heard it here first. UCLA jumps to 12 next year and knocks Berkeley down and pushes Cornell out of t-14

The gulf between Cornell and T14-20 is pretty big if you look at the score spread.
The T13 is pretty entrenched.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:20 pm
by curry1
Itiswritten wrote:
ponderingmeerkat wrote:Just in here to note the spicy hot takes coming from LA these days now GULC is ranked 15 along side UCLA. Just one time co-ranked with Georgetown and every baby blue Bruin thinks they are taking down Duke/Cornell/Northwestern.

And they said UT was "gettin' to big for their britches, partner".


You heard it here first. UCLA jumps to 12 next year and knocks Berkeley down and pushes Cornell out of t-14

(UCLA grads continue to struggle to find employment despite being a "T14")

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:20 pm
by ponderingmeerkat
Itiswritten wrote:
ponderingmeerkat wrote:Just in here to note the spicy hot takes coming from LA these days now GULC is ranked 15 along side UCLA. Just one time co-ranked with Georgetown and every baby blue Bruin thinks they are taking down Duke/Cornell/Northwestern.

And they said UT was "gettin' to big for their britches, partner".


You heard it here first. UCLA jumps to 12 next year and knocks Berkeley down and pushes Cornell out of t-14


You're beautiful "Mighty Bruin". Never change. :lol:

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:21 pm
by Itiswritten
Rigo wrote:
Itiswritten wrote:
ponderingmeerkat wrote:Just in here to note the spicy hot takes coming from LA these days now GULC is ranked 15 along side UCLA. Just one time co-ranked with Georgetown and every baby blue Bruin thinks they are taking down Duke/Cornell/Northwestern.

And they said UT was "gettin' to big for their britches, partner".
2

You heard it here first. UCLA jumps to 12 next year and knocks Berkeley down and pushes Cornell out of t-14

The gulf between Cornell and T14-20 is pretty big if you look at the score spread.
The T13 is pretty entrenched.


T-13 ivory tower we are coming for you (lol)

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:28 pm
by BigZuck
Look we all agree that Cornell is an unprestigious garbage dump. Literally no one would dispute that.

But LOL UCLA isn't a peer of Cornell. Stop being so silly ya goose.

People can certainly choose UCLA over Cornell for any number of reasons. But they aren't peer schools.

Re: Cornell vs. UCLA

Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:45 pm
by Thomas Hagan, ESQ.
BigZuck wrote:Look we all agree that Cornell is an unprestigious garbage dump. Literally no one would dispute that.

But LOL UCLA isn't a peer of Cornell. Stop being so silly ya goose.

People can certainly choose UCLA over Cornell for any number of reasons. But they aren't peer schools.


Yeah, if I didn't care about employment I would probably choose UCLA 100%, which is basically why a bunch of people choose UCLA over Cornell for UG.