Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

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rachel3636
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Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby rachel3636 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:50 pm

Hi! I know these can get annoying, but when your financial future is on the line, you kind of stop caring about being annoying haha. I was offered an $81,000 scholarship to Vandy and a $144,000 scholarship to Emory. Their COA is pretty similar. I have my heart set on Vandy and already know where I want to live and who I want to live with. I wear my Vandy Law hat on a weekly basis. I'm emotionally invested in the show Nashville just because I hope to move there. Needless to say, I love Vanderbilt but I'm trying to decide if my love of the school/city is irrational considering the price. Vandy is higher ranked and I would much rather live/practice in Nashville than Atlanta, but is the extra cost worth it? To put it in perspective, I will be taking out loans to cover anything scholarships don't and will use loans for cost of living. Ultimate goal is big law for a few years (not necessarily NYC or anything, probably in the southeast somewhere) then who knows what. Can yall give me your input? It would be much appreciated.

Tuiton is like 53k + cost of living at Emory and 54k + cost of living at Vandy so I'm looking at about $48,000 total cost for Emory and $111,000 for Vandy (their average student debt for borrowers is $127k according to them).

Thanks yall! I really do appreciate it.

dbalkaran
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby dbalkaran » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:07 pm

rachel3636 wrote:Hi! I know these can get annoying, but when your financial future is on the line, you kind of stop caring about being annoying haha. I was offered an $81,000 scholarship to Vandy and a $144,000 scholarship to Emory. Their COA is pretty similar. I have my heart set on Vandy and already know where I want to live and who I want to live with. I wear my Vandy Law hat on a weekly basis. I'm emotionally invested in the show Nashville just because I hope to move there. Needless to say, I love Vanderbilt but I'm trying to decide if my love of the school/city is irrational considering the price. Vandy is higher ranked and I would much rather live/practice in Nashville than Atlanta, but is the extra cost worth it? To put it in perspective, I will be taking out loans to cover anything scholarships don't and will use loans for cost of living. Ultimate goal is big law for a few years (not necessarily NYC or anything, probably in the southeast somewhere) then who knows what. Can yall give me your input? It would be much appreciated.

Tuiton is like 53k + cost of living at Emory and 54k + cost of living at Vandy so I'm looking at about $48,000 total cost for Emory and $111,000 for Vandy (their average student debt for borrowers is $127k according to them).

Thanks yall! I really do appreciate it.


Take this with a grain of salt (I'm a 0L), but I'd go with Emory. The 3.9% difference in employment rates (in favor of Vandy) is not worth $63k more in debt. Emory is well known and well respected in the south so if you're willing to practice there and graduate in the top third of your class you should have a pretty solid chance of landing a good job. If you want BigLaw you might need to be higher in your class than that, but I'll let the more experienced people in here talk about that. Just my two cents.

uion1715
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby uion1715 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:17 pm

A 0L here, but before the regular crowd swoops in, some thoughts:

It seems like you want Vandy pretty badly, but are worried about its cost. Many people will suggest retakes to get the scholarship money up, so it's a good idea to post your stat to allow people to give a better advice.

Are there other options on the table (For negotiation)? Vandy under $80k sounds like a pretty decent option to me if you can negotiate your scholarship.

Also a reminder that you have 40-50% chance of getting big law out of Vandy.

EDIT: Also, are you sure you got the COA right for Vandy? I calculated $150k COA, not $111k based on your scholarship number.

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BoyJord
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby BoyJord » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:46 pm

If you want to end up in Nashville as badly as you say, why not go to Vandy and begin your professional networking immediately. Sure you could end up in Nashville from Emory but I do not see the point in spending 3 years in ATL if you know you want to end up in Nashville.

Certainly the price difference is something to consider but assuming you are going to work hard (If you are passionate about Vandy/Nashville now, I feel it safe to assume you will either work hard to secure good grades or hustle outside of class for networking opportunities, or both) you could land a job in Nashville that would allow you to overcome your debt from Vandy.

FWIW- (this could be said about any city) depending on your personal situation and what type of living situation you are okay with, Nashville can be an extremely affordable place to live. My vote is Vandy. If I was in your shoes and was passionate about a school and a city, I would go for it. You only go to law school once, go to the place that excites you.

Edit: 0L who grew up in Nashville

rachel3636
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby rachel3636 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:49 pm

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Last edited by rachel3636 on Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rachel3636
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby rachel3636 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:51 pm

BoyJord wrote:If you want to end up in Nashville as badly as you say, why not go to Vandy and begin your professional networking immediately. Sure you could end up in Nashville from Emory but I do not see the point in spending 3 years in ATL if you know you want to end up in Nashville.

Certainly the price difference is something to consider but assuming you are going to work hard (If you are passionate about Vandy/Nashville now, I feel it safe to assume you will either work hard to secure good grades or hustle outside of class for networking opportunities, or both) you could land a job in Nashville that would allow you to overcome your debt from Vandy.

FWIW- (this could be said about any city) depending on your personal situation and what type of living situation you are okay with, Nashville can be an extremely affordable place to live. My vote is Vandy. If I was in your shoes and was passionate about a school and a city, I would go for it. You only go to law school once, go to the place that excites you.

Edit: 0L who grew up in Nashville


Ahhh thanks for the positivity. Nashville really is the goal. Atlanta is cool, but I don't see myself living there long term (but hey if I got a 125k big law job after graduation, I'm sure I could be somewhat persuaded haha). I'm very strongly leaning towards Vandy, I just don't want to make a dumb choice without any input from TLS people who (for the most part) seem to know their stuff

rachel3636
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby rachel3636 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:55 pm

uion1715 wrote:A 0L here, but before the regular crowd swoops in, some thoughts:

It seems like you want Vandy pretty badly, but are worried about its cost. Many people will suggest retakes to get the scholarship money up, so it's a good idea to post your stat to allow people to give a better advice.

Are there other options on the table (For negotiation)? Vandy under $80k sounds like a pretty decent option to me if you can negotiate your scholarship.

Also a reminder that you have 40-50% chance of getting big law out of Vandy.

EDIT: Also, are you sure you got the COA right for Vandy? I calculated $150k COA, not $111k based on your scholarship number.


Also PSA, I have a full ride to my undergrad + 5k/year stipend. It's ranking in the mid-20s. I know it's amazing but I don't want to ultimately practice in this state and I can quickly see myself getting "stuck" if I decided to go to law school here when I did undergrad here as well.

uion1715
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby uion1715 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:20 pm

rachel3636 wrote: Hey! Thanks for your response. I have 4.0+ and a 165. I graduated in December and have 0 idea what I would do if I didn't go to law school in the fall...it's just always been the plan. I'm a runner at a law firm for the semester until school starts and the thought of doing that for the next year or more sounds terrible (not that I don't like the firm, I just don't like making coffee at minimum wage for 8 hours a day haha). I studied for 8ish months and my highest ever score was a 167 on a practice. 164-165 was where I scored pretty much every single time. I felt like I plateaued. I just sent my negotiation email to Vandy, but I think there's like a 95% chance they won't budge, as they seem to pretty anti-negotiating. Also a hard negotiation when Emory is ranked below Vandy.


I think your stat will make many say retake and I agree because 166, 167 can mean a huge difference. But before that, have you applied to any T14? Your stat on MyLSN has you a good bet at UVA and Northwestern and a decent bet at Chicago and UPenn which love the high-GPA folks. If you did not apply, I would at least seriously consider applying to the T14s in the next cycle.

RedPurpleBlue
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:34 pm

rachel3636 wrote: I was offered an $81,000 scholarship to Vandy and a $144,000 scholarship to Emory.

To put it in perspective, I will be taking out loans to cover anything scholarships don't and will use loans for cost of living.

I'm looking at about $48,000 total cost for Emory and $111,000 for Vandy (their average student debt for borrowers is $127k according to them).


You need to go back and double-check your calculations. You can't go to Vandy for $111k. With $81k of scholarship, Vandy should cost ~$160k (using their website for books + room + board + tuition for three years + gradpls/stafford interest and estimated increases in COA). Maybe I'm missing something, but it looks like you're using loans for everything that scholarships don't cover. If that's true, then you're paying my estimate.

rachel3636
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby rachel3636 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:07 pm

uion1715 wrote:
rachel3636 wrote: Hey! Thanks for your response. I have 4.0+ and a 165. I graduated in December and have 0 idea what I would do if I didn't go to law school in the fall...it's just always been the plan. I'm a runner at a law firm for the semester until school starts and the thought of doing that for the next year or more sounds terrible (not that I don't like the firm, I just don't like making coffee at minimum wage for 8 hours a day haha). I studied for 8ish months and my highest ever score was a 167 on a practice. 164-165 was where I scored pretty much every single time. I felt like I plateaued. I just sent my negotiation email to Vandy, but I think there's like a 95% chance they won't budge, as they seem to pretty anti-negotiating. Also a hard negotiation when Emory is ranked below Vandy.


I think your stat will make many say retake and I agree because 166, 167 can mean a huge difference. But before that, have you applied to any T14? Your stat on MyLSN has you a good bet at UVA and Northwestern and a decent bet at Chicago and UPenn which love the high-GPA folks. If you did not apply, I would at least seriously consider applying to the T14s in the next cycle.


In at Georgetown with no scholarship, waitlist at Duke, denied at Virginia

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Rigo
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby Rigo » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:14 pm

Yeah I am calculating total COA at Vandy for you at $153k (i don't think this includes health insurance so add $10k probably)
Emory at $86k (including health insurance)

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UVA2B
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby UVA2B » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:33 pm

Rigo wrote:Yeah I am calculating total COA at Vandy for you at $153k (i don't think this includes health insurance so add $10k probably)
Emory at $86k (including health insurance)


These seem much more accurate for COA absent other cash streams, and that's important. Especially if you're taking out loans.

Both options give you a (somewhat) decent chance of Biglaw out of the gate, but it's by no means guaranteed. If you missed out on the Biglaw train, would you be happy with the other results? Would you be okay fighting for DA/PD jobs in TN/GA? Would you have any alternatives to paying off the $86k/153k with a salary of $45k-60k in TN/GA? Please realize this is likely the option you're facing for salaries if Biglaw doesn't work out.

These are borderline defensible options, but you need to accurately assess your risk profile before making this decision. Retake is likely the right option to give yourself more than a coin flip's chance of achieving the goal you want (in this case, that goal being Biglaw), but if you're comfortable with the alternatives, and have a way to not go into ruinous, life-altering debt and default, then these are both good options. I would never go into that much debt for a law school (meaning Vandy is too expensive for my tastes, and Emory would make me itchy), but I realize some people have to do this to achieve their goals.

So would you pay that much for the statistically equally likely outcome of a DA/PD/small firm job paying you $45-65k/year that requires you pay $1k-2k/month for ten years to satisfy that debt? That's the decision you're facing here.

rachel3636
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby rachel3636 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:06 pm

Rigo wrote:Yeah I am calculating total COA at Vandy for you at $153k (i don't think this includes health insurance so add $10k probably)
Emory at $86k (including health insurance)


I calculated it cutting a lot of corners. I'm used to being a frugal college student. Their estimates are wayyy higher than I need during law school. Found an apartment if I choose Vandy that's like $350 less than their estimate per month for example because I'll have a roommate. Also, I have money to pay for transportation and food on my own, so I don't count that in law school cost, just life cost in general. That's how I got my number, albeit it might be a little bit off!

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UVA2B
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby UVA2B » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:11 pm

rachel3636 wrote:
Rigo wrote:Yeah I am calculating total COA at Vandy for you at $153k (i don't think this includes health insurance so add $10k probably)
Emory at $86k (including health insurance)


I calculated it cutting a lot of corners. I'm used to being a frugal college student. Their estimates are wayyy higher than I need during law school. Found an apartment if I choose Vandy that's like $350 less than their estimate per month for example because I'll have a roommate. Also, I have money to pay for transportation and food on my own, so I don't count that in law school cost, just life cost in general. That's how I got my number, albeit it might be a little bit off!


TBF, your savings calculations will be offset by fees and interest in loans accrued from origination, so while you're rationalizing that you'll live cheaper in these places, the end result is mostly the same. We're arguing over small portions of the total debt load, so the underlying rationale remains the same.

rachel3636
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby rachel3636 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:28 am

UVA2B wrote:
rachel3636 wrote:
Rigo wrote:Yeah I am calculating total COA at Vandy for you at $153k (i don't think this includes health insurance so add $10k probably)
Emory at $86k (including health insurance)


I calculated it cutting a lot of corners. I'm used to being a frugal college student. Their estimates are wayyy higher than I need during law school. Found an apartment if I choose Vandy that's like $350 less than their estimate per month for example because I'll have a roommate. Also, I have money to pay for transportation and food on my own, so I don't count that in law school cost, just life cost in general. That's how I got my number, albeit it might be a little bit off!


TBF, your savings calculations will be offset by fees and interest in loans accrued from origination, so while you're rationalizing that you'll live cheaper in these places, the end result is mostly the same. We're arguing over small portions of the total debt load, so the underlying rationale remains the same.


So if you were in my shoes what would you do?

RedPurpleBlue
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:09 am

rachel3636 wrote: So if you were in my shoes what would you do?


First, I would adjust in my head that Vanderbilt is going to be ~$160k and Emory will be ~$90k. Your numbers are not remotely realistic. Even with $350/mo. savings from apartment renting, your Vanderbilt total would only fall to ~$145-150k, and your Emory total to ~$75-80k.

Second, you need to think long and hard about how much that $70k gap is worth to you in regards to percentage chance of getting Big Law. $160k gives you a ~47% chance at BL from Vanderbilt, and $90k gives you a ~26% chance from Emory. Is the chance of 1/5 more people in your class landing BL worth a $70k gamble to you (that's what it is, a gamble)?

Third, consider the fact that you can pay $80-$90k for Emory, and your life won't be over if you miss out on BL. You can land a lower paying job and be fine. If you miss out on BL with $160k in debt, you're going to be crushed. You don't seem to want to do public interest for 10 years, so I would strongly consider Emory, because you can more reasonably pay off your debt in the private setting you seem to want to be in, even if you miss BL.

Emory does have a low unemployment rate, but their PT/ST stat is alarmingly high. If you 100% want to do law school, then I'd PERSONALLY choose Emory, because I'm really debt adverse and not willing to roll the die on a 50% chance and $160k.

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BoyJord
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Re: Vandy ($) v Emory ($$)

Postby BoyJord » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:37 am

RedPurpleBlue wrote:
rachel3636 wrote: So if you were in my shoes what would you do?


First, I would adjust in my head that Vanderbilt is going to be ~$160k and Emory will be ~$90k. Your numbers are not remotely realistic. Even with $350/mo. savings from apartment renting, your Vanderbilt total would only fall to ~$145-150k, and your Emory total to ~$75-80k.

Second, you need to think long and hard about how much that $70k gap is worth to you in regards to percentage chance of getting Big Law. $160k gives you a ~47% chance at BL from Vanderbilt, and $90k gives you a ~26% chance from Emory. Is the chance of 1/5 more people in your class landing BL worth a $70k gamble to you (that's what it is, a gamble)?

Third, consider the fact that you can pay $80-$90k for Emory, and your life won't be over if you miss out on BL. You can land a lower paying job and be fine. If you miss out on BL with $160k in debt, you're going to be crushed. You don't seem to want to do public interest for 10 years, so I would strongly consider Emory, because you can more reasonably pay off your debt in the private setting you seem to want to be in, even if you miss BL.

Emory does have a low unemployment rate, but their PT/ST stat is alarmingly high. If you 100% want to do law school, then I'd PERSONALLY choose Emory, because I'm really debt adverse and not willing to roll the die on a 50% chance and $160k.


This is the beauty of TLS. I read this entire post and then was completely shocked when you concluded with the Emory vote. Haha I was convinced you were going to say Vandy after all your points and rationale.




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