Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

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Whittie
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Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Whittie » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:24 pm

Hey all - please forgive me if this comes across as a flame, it is not.

So I am still waiting to hear from my top choice, but as deposit deadlines are rapidly approaching I want to seek out some advice.

My two top options right now are Harvard at sticker or Chicago with a Rubenstein scholarship. I am very fortunate in that a distant relative left my sisters and I some money for our graduate education, so that paired with some money I have saved up working will mean I have no debt regardless of which school I attend.

My long-term goals are to work as a litigator on the west coast, preferably in LA or SF, at a boutique litigation firm like Keker. Near-term, I'm hoping to do well enough to secure Fed Dis. and COA clerkships after graduating and then work Biglaw for as long as it takes to transfer to a boutique.

Currently I see the pros for Harvard being the lay prestige, the higher clerkship numbers and the easier grading structure. The cons are a huge class size, a higher number of faculty that are "passing through" as adjuncts or otherwise, and the distance from the markets I want to work in. For Chicago, the pros are the possibility of close connections with professors - which could facilitate clerkship placement, smaller class size, and the [perceived] prestige of having Rubenstein on my resume.

My question to the good folks of TLS is: which option will put me in the best position to achieve my goals while enjoying my law school experience?

Obviously no matter what I am very fortunate here. Thanks in advance for sharing your thoughts and if anyone has questions about applying/interviewing feel free to PM me for whatever advice I can provide.
Last edited by Whittie on Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Npret
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Npret » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:26 pm

Don't spend your (and your sisters')inheritance on Harvard. Go for free.

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Whittie
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Whittie » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:27 pm

Npret wrote:Don't spend your (and your sisters')inheritance on Harvard. Go for free.



Just to note - the money is exclusively available for graduate education. I can't just take the Ruby and ball out in Dubai or something lol.

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Nebby
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Nebby » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:28 pm

Harvard

Npret
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Npret » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:31 pm

Whittie wrote:
Npret wrote:Don't spend your (and your sisters')inheritance on Harvard. Go for free.



Just to note - the money is exclusively available for graduate education. I can't just take the Ruby and ball out in Dubai or something lol.


I thought you could possibly set up your future. Will there be enough for your siblings too if you go to Harvard?

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Whittie
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Whittie » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:33 pm

Npret wrote:
Whittie wrote:
Npret wrote:Don't spend your (and your sisters')inheritance on Harvard. Go for free.



Just to note - the money is exclusively available for graduate education. I can't just take the Ruby and ball out in Dubai or something lol.


I thought you could possibly set up your future. Will there be enough for your siblings too if you go to Harvard?


Yes there will be.

mrgstephe
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby mrgstephe » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:36 pm

Whittie wrote:
Npret wrote:
Whittie wrote:
Npret wrote:Don't spend your (and your sisters')inheritance on Harvard. Go for free.



Just to note - the money is exclusively available for graduate education. I can't just take the Ruby and ball out in Dubai or something lol.


I thought you could possibly set up your future. Will there be enough for your siblings too if you go to Harvard?


Yes there will be.


H

Or retake and go to S :lol:

Alexandros
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Alexandros » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:41 pm

Nebby wrote:Harvard

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Whittie
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Whittie » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:43 pm

Well that was a quick and resounding consensus. Thanks all. And trust me, if Stanford shows me the love I'll show it back :D

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Rigo
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Rigo » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:47 pm

So you have no access to the money even if you go to grad school with a scholarshup? That blows.

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Whittie
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Whittie » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:50 pm

Rigo wrote:So you have no access to the money even if you go to grad school with a scholarshup? That blows.


Honestly man nothing about it blows.

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Rigo
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Rigo » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:53 pm

Whittie wrote:
Rigo wrote:So you have no access to the money even if you go to grad school with a scholarshup? That blows.

Honestly man nothing about it blows.

Well yeah it's quite a 1% problem. I was just saying so because it disincentivizes you to take the Ruby and instead use the money you would have spent for a down payment on a home or something instead.

Alexandros
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Alexandros » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:53 pm

Rigo wrote:So you have no access to the money even if you go to grad school with a scholarshup? That blows.

+1
And if you do, that makes it a very different question (and I'd strongly lean Chicago). Congratulations, btw! :)

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studyingeveryday
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby studyingeveryday » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:57 pm

Whittie wrote:
Npret wrote:Don't spend your (and your sisters')inheritance on Harvard. Go for free.



Just to note - the money is exclusively available for graduate education. I can't just take the Ruby and ball out in Dubai or something lol.


in that case, Harvard! best for your goals.

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Rigo
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Rigo » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:59 pm

But yeah, if costs truly equal for you, then Harvard.

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pretzeltime
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby pretzeltime » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:59 pm

This is fucking amazing and the best possible scenario to take H. Just my 0L opinion. Congratulations!!!

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Mullens
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Mullens » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:02 pm

Whittie wrote:
Npret wrote:Don't spend your (and your sisters')inheritance on Harvard. Go for free.



Just to note - the money is exclusively available for graduate education. I can't just take the Ruby and ball out in Dubai or something lol.


Yeah I guess if you can't use the money for living expenses then it's really just the Ruby stipend and COL differences that's the difference here. At that price difference, I'd go to H if your full tuition is covered. That's a helluva deal.

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landshoes
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby landshoes » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:18 pm

IMO the Ruby (which comes with an enormous amount of support and faculty mentorship) and the connections our profs have with west coast lit boutiques make Chicago a better opportunity than you might initially think. The clerkship numbers for Rubies are really, really good.

I would ask Chicago's admissions people to put you in touch with Prof. Strahilevitz* and/or current students who are clerking and/or summering at a West Coast lit boutique. I know there is at least one Rubenstein scholar in my class who fits this profile.

The money for grad education makes HLS really attractive, I won't lie. Personally, depending how the trust is structured, I'd take UChi and then leave more money in there for my kids. But that's a big "if."

(I'd also probably go for an MBA or a PhD just for kicks, though, so our preferences might not align very well).


*also worth noting that he's the nicest man alive

hlsperson123
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby hlsperson123 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:39 pm

Whittie wrote:distance from the markets I want to work in.


I don't think Chicago is closer, in any meaningful sense, to SF or LA than Harvard is. I mean sure, it's geographically closer, but it's still a thousand-plus miles and several hours of flight away. Keker in particular goes to OCI at HYSB every year. I am almost positive they don't go to OCI at Chicago every year.

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Nebby
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Nebby » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:45 pm

hlsperson123 wrote:
Whittie wrote:distance from the markets I want to work in.


I don't think Chicago is closer, in any meaningful sense, to SF or LA than Harvard is. I mean sure, it's geographically closer, but it's still a thousand-plus miles and several hours of flight away. Keker in particular goes to OCI at HYSB every year. I am almost positive they don't go to OCI at Chicago every year.

Harvard is actually closer to California than Chicago

Alexandros
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Alexandros » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:46 pm

landshoes wrote:IMO the Ruby (which comes with an enormous amount of support and faculty mentorship) and the connections our profs have with west coast lit boutiques make Chicago a better opportunity than you might initially think. The clerkship numbers for Rubies are really, really good.

I would ask Chicago's admissions people to put you in touch with Prof. Strahilevitz* and/or current students who are clerking and/or summering at a West Coast lit boutique. I know there is at least one Rubenstein scholar in my class who fits this profile.

The money for grad education makes HLS really attractive, I won't lie. Personally, depending how the trust is structured, I'd take UChi and then leave more money in there for my kids. But that's a big "if."

(I'd also probably go for an MBA or a PhD just for kicks, though, so our preferences might not align very well).


*also worth noting that he's the nicest man alive

Could you elaborate on this / do you have any data? Genuinely curious; I've heard this said once or twice (clerkships etc) but haven't actually seen the numbers or anything.

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Whittie
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Whittie » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:04 pm

Alexandros wrote:
landshoes wrote:IMO the Ruby (which comes with an enormous amount of support and faculty mentorship) and the connections our profs have with west coast lit boutiques make Chicago a better opportunity than you might initially think. The clerkship numbers for Rubies are really, really good.

I would ask Chicago's admissions people to put you in touch with Prof. Strahilevitz* and/or current students who are clerking and/or summering at a West Coast lit boutique. I know there is at least one Rubenstein scholar in my class who fits this profile.

The money for grad education makes HLS really attractive, I won't lie. Personally, depending how the trust is structured, I'd take UChi and then leave more money in there for my kids. But that's a big "if."

(I'd also probably go for an MBA or a PhD just for kicks, though, so our preferences might not align very well).


*also worth noting that he's the nicest man alive

Could you elaborate on this / do you have any data? Genuinely curious; I've heard this said once or twice (clerkships etc) but haven't actually seen the numbers or anything.


I second this interest. If there is a notable difference in clerkships for Rubies, such that it would offset the advantage conferred by HLS, it would be great to see that information.

ETA: I can't do grammar.

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landshoes
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby landshoes » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:11 pm

I'm very sure that there is a notable difference for Rubies compared to the entire class, but I don't have the numbers handy. Everyone I know with a Ruby has a clerkship lined up (and since the school is small, I know a pretty high percentage of the people with Rubies, although obviously not all of them).

If you have a Ruby, I would email the admissions office today and ask them to connect you to the faculty who run the program and/or ask them for those numbers. If you have a hard time getting in touch with someone, please PM me and I can try to find out for you.

Alexandros
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby Alexandros » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:17 pm

landshoes wrote:I'm very sure that there is a notable difference for Rubies compared to the entire class, but I don't have the numbers handy. Everyone I know with a Ruby has a clerkship lined up (and since the school is small, I know a pretty high percentage of the people with Rubies, although obviously not all of them).

If you have a Ruby, I would email the admissions office today and ask them to connect you to the faculty who run the program and/or ask them for those numbers. If you have a hard time getting in touch with someone, please PM me and I can try to find out for you.

I realize this is difficult to know in a vacuum, but is this because of the faculty support you mentioned above? And do you have any idea what that faculty support looks like (I haven't really found anything/much online about it)?

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landshoes
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Re: Harvard v. Chicago | no debt either way

Postby landshoes » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:31 pm

I would say that there are a few factors. The first would be faculty support, which I can't discuss in too much detail because I haven't experienced it (at least not as a Ruby, I've gotten a lot of support otherwise). I also think that self-selection plays a large role. By that, I mean that the people who get Rubies are more likely to apply for clerkships, for various reasons. There are a decent number of people here with good or great grades who just don't care about clerkships because they don't want to do lit or just don't feel like it's necessary. I don't feel that there's a culture here of really being super into clerkships, unless you're in a very specific group of people. That said, I feel like people with Rubies are definitely part of the subset of people who care a lot.

It's a little weird for me to say that the faculty who are involved with the Rubinstein program are especially helpful, because the faculty here, generally, are incredibly accessible and helpful. But I do know the prof who runs the Ruby program (Prof. Strahilevitz) is extremely nice and accessible, and very influential. And second-hand, he seems to have a lot of ongoing contact with students as they consider clerkships during 1L and 2L.




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