BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
jstans

Bronze
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:12 pm

BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby jstans » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:57 pm

Here's the deal. BC is my current number one choice and has given me a scholly of about 25% tuition. W&L has increased my scholarship offer twice now out of the blue, so I'd only be paying about $12k to attend over all three years. I want to work in corporate law, or at least something within the business field. I have no preference on where I want to practice, but I come from the South and would like to spend at least some time in a bigger metro area. Should I take BC with higher cost but better employment? Or W&L for almost free? Opinions are encouraged and welcome.

Rigo

Diamond
Posts: 16642
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:19 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby Rigo » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:20 pm

I'd go W&L. BC will just be too expensive if debt financing.

User avatar
jstans

Bronze
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:12 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby jstans » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:23 pm

Rigo wrote:I'd go W&L. BC will just be too expensive if debt financing.


Forgot to include I could contribute ~$45k of my own funds for sure at this point, if that makes a difference. Thanks so much for the input, I definitely am considering that aspect!

Rigo

Diamond
Posts: 16642
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:19 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby Rigo » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:26 pm

jstans wrote:
Rigo wrote:I'd go W&L. BC will just be too expensive if debt financing.

Forgot to include I could contribute ~$45k of my own funds for sure at this point, if that makes a difference. Thanks so much for the input, I definitely am considering that aspect!

I still say W&L just for the record.
COL will be a lot lower in Lexington too.

cavalier1138

Gold
Posts: 4954
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:13 am

When you say "corporate law", are you referring to a big law firm? Government investigation? Compliance? In-house? Solo practice to help out local businesses?

User avatar
jstans

Bronze
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:12 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby jstans » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:04 am

cavalier1138 wrote:When you say "corporate law", are you referring to a big law firm? Government investigation? Compliance? In-house? Solo practice to help out local businesses?


Big law or compliance really. Would love to go in-house for a company after working for a while though.

cavalier1138

Gold
Posts: 4954
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:10 am

jstans wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:When you say "corporate law", are you referring to a big law firm? Government investigation? Compliance? In-house? Solo practice to help out local businesses?


Big law or compliance really. Would love to go in-house for a company after working for a while though.


If your goal is biglaw, then retake and reapply next cycle. W&L doesn't give you a reasonable chance at biglaw, and BC doesn't give you a good enough chance to justify the expense.

User avatar
jstans

Bronze
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:12 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby jstans » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:43 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
jstans wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:When you say "corporate law", are you referring to a big law firm? Government investigation? Compliance? In-house? Solo practice to help out local businesses?


Big law or compliance really. Would love to go in-house for a company after working for a while though.


If your goal is biglaw, then retake and reapply next cycle. W&L doesn't give you a reasonable chance at biglaw, and BC doesn't give you a good enough chance to justify the expense.


Solid point, I really appreciate your candor. From your perspective, what is the max someone should be willing to pay to attend BC in terms of tuition + living etc.?

cavalier1138

Gold
Posts: 4954
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:46 am

jstans wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
jstans wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:When you say "corporate law", are you referring to a big law firm? Government investigation? Compliance? In-house? Solo practice to help out local businesses?


Big law or compliance really. Would love to go in-house for a company after working for a while though.


If your goal is biglaw, then retake and reapply next cycle. W&L doesn't give you a reasonable chance at biglaw, and BC doesn't give you a good enough chance to justify the expense.


Solid point, I really appreciate your candor. From your perspective, what is the max someone should be willing to pay to attend BC in terms of tuition + living etc.?


I would say something below six figures. If you don't get biglaw, you need to be prepared to pay off your debt on $45-60k a year.

User avatar
jstans

Bronze
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:12 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby jstans » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:49 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
jstans wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
jstans wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:When you say "corporate law", are you referring to a big law firm? Government investigation? Compliance? In-house? Solo practice to help out local businesses?


Big law or compliance really. Would love to go in-house for a company after working for a while though.


If your goal is biglaw, then retake and reapply next cycle. W&L doesn't give you a reasonable chance at biglaw, and BC doesn't give you a good enough chance to justify the expense.


Solid point, I really appreciate your candor. From your perspective, what is the max someone should be willing to pay to attend BC in terms of tuition + living etc.?


I would say something below six figures. If you don't get biglaw, you need to be prepared to pay off your debt on $45-60k a year.


Noted. Thanks for all the help.

pyramidenergy888

New
Posts: 85
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:44 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby pyramidenergy888 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:51 am

jstans wrote:
Rigo wrote:I'd go W&L. BC will just be too expensive if debt financing.


Forgot to include I could contribute ~$45k of my own funds for sure at this point, if that makes a difference. Thanks so much for the input, I definitely am considering that aspect!


With $45k you could pay 12k tuition and have 33k left for living expenses. And you could graduate with no debt. That's pretty great.

NoDayButToday

Silver
Posts: 1473
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:34 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby NoDayButToday » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:57 am

.
Last edited by NoDayButToday on Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
jstans

Bronze
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:12 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby jstans » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:58 pm

NoDayButToday wrote:Do you have a preference for region?

BC grads do very well in Boston/New England and New York. They have some reach into DC. Otherwise, it is possible to get work elsewhere and it's a respected school, but it is still a regional school. I'm not sure about W&L's outcomes, but I would guess it's probably DC and Southeast. So, regardless of what kind of law you want to practice, this is important to keep in mind with regional schools.

Another thing to keep in mind, financially, in addition to tuition: W&L is going to be a much less expensive COA. Boston is very expensive. Rent is high, food prices are high, etc.

FWIW, I was able to successfully negotiate with BC to match a higher scholarship. I had $75K from Wash U in St. Louis. BC originally offered $60K. I negotiated in person over ASW for a match--they had me send in my Wash U letter as proof and then a few days later I got a decision. If they see a similarly ranked school is offering you a lot more, they might be willing to at least make your decision harder.

Also FWIW, I went to BC for 1L and I loved it. I ended up transferring to NYU because I wanted to do capital defense, and that's something they do extremely well, but I still live in Boston half the week and have stayed close with my BC friends and profs. BC has a sense of community you won't get anywhere else. Academically it's also very strong, especially with legal research and writing--I did biglaw in Boston during my 1L summer and felt well prepared for that experience. You obviously have to do well to have a good shot at big law (I think top third was pretty much the cut off for OCI if I remember correctly)--but I know lots of people who went to Ropes, Proskauer, Skadden, Choate, etc., and to NY firms.


That's incredibly helpful, thanks so much. As far as location goes, I'm not too sure where I would want to be. I'm from the South and want to be in a bigger city for at least a few years. The COL of Boston is my biggest concern, because I have my finances planned out at this point to attend BC with minimal debt as far as school itself goes. Do you know how many BC grads typically end up in DC? BC sent me their special issue of their magazine specifically about DC grads, which made me think it could be relatively easy to break into that market with a BC Law degree. Do you think that is relatively easy to break into? I know W&L is closer to DC, but at this point I'm also taking a hard look at where I would be happier for three years, and BC offers much more in terms of happiness than W&L.

Rigo

Diamond
Posts: 16642
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:19 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby Rigo » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:23 pm

jstans wrote: Do you know how many BC grads typically end up in DC? BC sent me their special issue of their magazine specifically about DC grads, which made me think it could be relatively easy to break into that market with a BC Law degree. Do you think that is relatively easy to break into? I know W&L is closer to DC, but at this point I'm also taking a hard look at where I would be happier for three years, and BC offers much more in terms of happiness than W&L.

Well no shit school propaganda would lead you to belive you can do anything from BC.
I wouldn't go to BC if you want DC. It's certainly possible you could get a job in DC from BC, but it's not any more likely than from W&L and it's not worth the extra cost.

Rigo

Diamond
Posts: 16642
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:19 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby Rigo » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:25 pm

Can we get true COA figures? Ones not factoring in your $45k savings, for now.

NoDayButToday

Silver
Posts: 1473
Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2013 9:34 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby NoDayButToday » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:00 pm

.
Last edited by NoDayButToday on Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Easterbork

Bronze
Posts: 266
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:43 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby Easterbork » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:16 pm

If you are concerned about the fact that wnl is rural, I would heavily discount that. People seem to love it. Given your ties to the south east and the near cost-freeness of wnl I would suggest that. It's not any less likely that you will get D.C., and in my opinion in the reasonably likely event you are a 3L looking for employment at one of these two schools, id rather be the southerner with a W&L degree. Considerations for wanting to live in a city get real unimportant when you are in survival mode trying to get a job. Lack of debt will mean a hell of a lot more to your happiness then, it it comes to that.

User avatar
jstans

Bronze
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:12 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby jstans » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:17 pm

Rigo wrote:Can we get true COA figures? Ones not factoring in your $45k savings, for now.


Without the savings, I'd put COA at around $105-110 for BC given some other financial provisions I have at my disposal. For W&L, I'd say it would be about $45k for tuition remainder, livings, and all other expenses.

User avatar
jstans

Bronze
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:12 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby jstans » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:19 pm

NoDayButToday wrote:https://www.bc.edu/bc-web/schools/law/careers/employment-statistics.html

In 2012-2015, 7-14% of the class went to "South Atlantic," which they describe as the region that includes DC. So like 16-30 people or so from each class, maybe a little more to that region, most of them I'm guessing to DC. I have a sense that there is a pretty decent sized BC in DC scene. When I got in they had a really brunch in DC at the Tabard Inn for admitted students in the area and there were like 12 of us there--I'm guessing a lot of these people starting in DC want to come back to DC.

I think there's also a degree of self-selection--if you want to target DC firms or summer experiences, I think you can. I know people who interned at NASA, the White House, the CIA, the Treasury, etc. during their summers. It just happens that most of the students are either from New England or plan to practice there, so I'm sure that's a big part of the numbers being the way they are.

As for happiness about the next 3 years, I think this is more important than people on TLS think it is. Obviously you don't want to ruin the next 20 years of your life by being mired in debt, but I think it's still a factor one needs to consider if it's a close enough question. W&L and BC would be pretty different experiences. BC is definitely not urban--it's suburban, in Newton. Most students live in Cleveland Circle / Brighton, which is like 15-20 minutes by shuttle to the law school campus; 30 minutes by T from downtown, and that area is more of an urban/suburban mix. But even so, I imagine it would still offer so much more in the way of things to do outside of school than W&L would, being kind of in a rural/suburban area. Then again, in law school, your life (working and social) is going to be largely school-centric, so depending on how much that's your personality, surroundings might not matter as much.

(PS: I'm a Southerner too--reppin' Charleston, SC)


That's very helpful. Self-selection isn't brought up a lot in these forums and I honestly forget about that aspect a lot. Those South Altantic figures are interesting, as are the rest of the South regions. At face value most employment statistics give the impression that no one ends up there. Very interesting to see that.

User avatar
jstans

Bronze
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:12 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby jstans » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:21 pm

Easterbork wrote:If you are concerned about the fact that wnl is rural, I would heavily discount that. People seem to love it. Given your ties to the south east and the near cost-freeness of wnl I would suggest that. It's not any less likely that you will get D.C., and in my opinion in the reasonably likely event you are a 3L looking for employment at one of these two schools, id rather be the southerner with a W&L degree. Considerations for wanting to live in a city get real unimportant when you are in survival mode trying to get a job. Lack of debt will mean a hell of a lot more to your happiness then, it it comes to that.


Very good point. I don't mean to place too much value on the rural factor, since I'm from a pretty rural state the idea of a change seems more inviting to me. As far as the southerner with the W&L degree goes, there is definitely value to that. Many of the "good ole boys" type of firms in my hometown have a fair amount of W&L grad, and are very influential/skilled in their profession.

Rigo

Diamond
Posts: 16642
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:19 pm

Re: BC ($) vs. Washington & Lee ($$$)

Postby Rigo » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:26 pm

DC firms are highly selective and grades whores. T13 people have trouble cracking that market. So beware I guess.



Return to “Choosing a Law School�

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests