Why the Michigan hatred?

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fourththoughts

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Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby fourththoughts » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:21 pm

I can't help but notice that there is some strong negativity directed at Michigan on TLS. Nonetheless, their TLS reports show percentages that are pretty similar to the rest of the T13. They are lower on Large firm score, but higher than some others on Fed Clerkship.

I'm just wondering, what evidence is there for this negativity?

dabigchina

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby dabigchina » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:35 pm

low biglaw placement + BigZuck

canafsa

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby canafsa » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:37 pm

.
Last edited by canafsa on Sat Apr 15, 2017 5:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TLSModBot

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby TLSModBot » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:39 pm

UMich killed my parents and I have sworn vengeance

Chipotle85

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby Chipotle85 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:02 am

dabigchina wrote:low biglaw placement + BigZuck

Isn't the relatively low biglaw placement a result of self-selection, though? Higher percentage of people interested in PI etc.

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lymenheimer

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby lymenheimer » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:05 am

Chipotle85 wrote:
dabigchina wrote:low biglaw placement + BigZuck

Isn't the relatively low biglaw placement a result of self-selection, though? Higher percentage of people interested in PI etc.

Man. That koolaid must be good

michlaw

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby michlaw » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:01 am

A simple reason for the hate. Jealously.

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proteinshake

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby proteinshake » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:24 am

michlaw wrote:A simple reason for the hate. Jealously.

:lol:

Npret

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby Npret » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:39 am

It may have started during the recession when Michigans class size was much bigger and the CSO gave terrible advice to focus on Chicago (if i remember correctly) and hiring was a complete disaster even worse than it needed to have been. (But I could be remembering wrong. The posts about it are here somewhere.)

There was also some issue of them not presenting the high number of students they were supporting to keep their employment numbers up. I think Dean Z was asked at an ASW about the number of students on school fellowships and she said the number would be up on the website,but the story went out that she actually she knew the number and it was so high she didn't want to announce it in front of accepted students and their families. I recall Prof Campos blogging about it so you might be able to find it. I don't recall the precise story. I know Dean Z claimed no bad intent but it was NAGL. (I know schools didn't have to disclose using fellowships to boost employment numbers and it was a dirty little secret for a while. Now the disclosure is mandated.)

Michigan used to have a strong local market when Detroit was a functioning city with big companies and firms but that was a long time ago. Now they don't have a vibrant local market they can dominate and that hurts them.

Michigan is holding on to its ranking in large part by cutting class size, though that's a commendable move, so take that as you will.

So I think that in addition to its current flaws, Michigan built up a bit of a negative reputation from the past.
Last edited by Npret on Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Pomeranian

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby Pomeranian » Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:45 am

Michigan doesn't really have a feeder market. Sure, Michigan places many students in Chicago, but there you 're competing with hometown UChicago/NU as well as WUSTL/ND/UIUC .

cavalier1138

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:16 am

Pomeranian wrote:Michigan doesn't really have a feeder market.


I think this actually has more to do with it. Why go to Ann Arbor if you could go to a school much closer to your target market with the same (or better) job prospects? It's not like employers respect you more because you're wasting a bunch of money on travel expenses to take summer internships, etc.

It's not that Michigan is a bad school. It's just that it's in the middle of nowhere.

nyu2019maybeplease

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby nyu2019maybeplease » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:45 am

Lived in NYC before school. Going to NYC. Picked Michigan over NYU, don't regret choice for second.

Ann Arbor is awesome and the school provides a great community. I've found myself more able to focus here, and the things I miss in NYC I wouldn't be doing as a law student anyhow.

Different people do well in different environments.

cavalier1138 wrote:
Pomeranian wrote:Michigan doesn't really have a feeder market.


I think this actually has more to do with it. Why go to Ann Arbor if you could go to a school much closer to your target market with the same (or better) job prospects? It's not like employers respect you more because you're wasting a bunch of money on travel expenses to take summer internships, etc.

It's not that Michigan is a bad school. It's just that it's in the middle of nowhere.

cavalier1138

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:49 am

nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Lived in NYC before school. Going to NYC. Picked Michigan over NYU, don't regret choice for second.

Ann Arbor is awesome and the school provides a great community. I've found myself more able to focus here, and the things I miss in NYC I wouldn't be doing as a law student anyhow.

Different people do well in different environments.


I'm sure they do. But there are quite a few practical drawbacks to living in Ann Arbor when there's no chance in hell you'll be working anywhere in the general vicinity.

Also, I can't possibly avoid remarking on your username. I'm sure it's from your halcyon 0L days, but can you really shill for Mich like that?

nyu2019maybeplease

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby nyu2019maybeplease » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:02 am

Yea, I can. Went into the cycle dreaming of NYU. Got in. Went to Michigan. Good choice. Questions?

cavalier1138 wrote:
nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Lived in NYC before school. Going to NYC. Picked Michigan over NYU, don't regret choice for second.

Ann Arbor is awesome and the school provides a great community. I've found myself more able to focus here, and the things I miss in NYC I wouldn't be doing as a law student anyhow.

Different people do well in different environments.


I'm sure they do. But there are quite a few practical drawbacks to living in Ann Arbor when there's no chance in hell you'll be working anywhere in the general vicinity.

Also, I can't possibly avoid remarking on your username. I'm sure it's from your halcyon 0L days, but can you really shill for Mich like that?
Last edited by nyu2019maybeplease on Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

nyu2019maybeplease

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby nyu2019maybeplease » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:05 am

Also, if you think of the admissions process as your halycon days, you had a different experience than I did.

nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Yea. Went into the cycle dreaming of NYU. Got in. Went to Michigan. Good choice. Questions?

cavalier1138 wrote:
nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Lived in NYC before school. Going to NYC. Picked Michigan over NYU, don't regret choice for second.

Ann Arbor is awesome and the school provides a great community. I've found myself more able to focus here, and the things I miss in NYC I wouldn't be doing as a law student anyhow.

Different people do well in different environments.


I'm sure they do. But there are quite a few practical drawbacks to living in Ann Arbor when there's no chance in hell you'll be working anywhere in the general vicinity.

Also, I can't possibly avoid remarking on your username. I'm sure it's from your halcyon 0L days, but can you really shill for Mich like that?

20170322

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby 20170322 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:11 am

nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Also, if you think of the admissions process as your halycon days, you had a different experience than I did.

nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Yea. Went into the cycle dreaming of NYU. Got in. Went to Michigan. Good choice. Questions?

cavalier1138 wrote:
nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Lived in NYC before school. Going to NYC. Picked Michigan over NYU, don't regret choice for second.

Ann Arbor is awesome and the school provides a great community. I've found myself more able to focus here, and the things I miss in NYC I wouldn't be doing as a law student anyhow.

Different people do well in different environments.


I'm sure they do. But there are quite a few practical drawbacks to living in Ann Arbor when there's no chance in hell you'll be working anywhere in the general vicinity.

Also, I can't possibly avoid remarking on your username. I'm sure it's from your halcyon 0L days, but can you really shill for Mich like that?


I think he was saying that the time before law school was his halcyon days, not the admissions process.

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BoyJord

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby BoyJord » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:35 am

so to synthesize, it is because it isnt new york but it is still T10

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zot1

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby zot1 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:41 am

Jim Harbaugh.

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S.Picquery

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby S.Picquery » Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:53 am

BoyJord wrote:so to synthesize, it is because it isnt new york but it is still T10

Hahaha. Seems like.

cavalier1138

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:07 am

SweetTort wrote:
nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Also, if you think of the admissions process as your halycon days, you had a different experience than I did.

nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Yea. Went into the cycle dreaming of NYU. Got in. Went to Michigan. Good choice. Questions?

cavalier1138 wrote:
nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Lived in NYC before school. Going to NYC. Picked Michigan over NYU, don't regret choice for second.

Ann Arbor is awesome and the school provides a great community. I've found myself more able to focus here, and the things I miss in NYC I wouldn't be doing as a law student anyhow.

Different people do well in different environments.


I'm sure they do. But there are quite a few practical drawbacks to living in Ann Arbor when there's no chance in hell you'll be working anywhere in the general vicinity.

Also, I can't possibly avoid remarking on your username. I'm sure it's from your halcyon 0L days, but can you really shill for Mich like that?


I think he was saying that the time before law school was his halcyon days, not the admissions process.


I think I was just being flippant.

It's interesting how strong the reaction has been, though. I actually said Michigan was a good school. I'd say it's a great school. But there's no denying that the Ann Arbor location is a drawback when it comes to taking advantage of nearby career opportunities. The thread isn't asking people to rate Michigan; it's asking why Michigan appears to get a lot of "hatred" compared to its peer schools. Its location is one possible explanation.

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:24 am

This thread was fun the first 17 times we did it but we're not going to rehash this again, sorry OP.

If you want a serious answer just read some posts by Michigan students and it'll be clear as day.

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby Socratease » Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:54 am

BigZuck wrote:This thread was fun the first 17 times we did it but we're not going to rehash this again, sorry OP.
has
If you want a serious answer just read some posts by Michigan students and it'll be clear as day.


Can you elablorate on this, BigZuck? It's the second time I've seen you say to read posts by Michigan students, but I've lurked and lurked and in my lurking read close to a bajillion posts by Mich students and frankly I don't understand what you mean. It is not clear as day.

Or can we at least get some links to specific instances of Mich dumbness/awfulness/demonshit? As a 0L without a dog in this fight, I'm just genuinely curious.

(sorry if this is rehashing)

Ilikecoldweather

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby Ilikecoldweather » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:08 pm

Socratease wrote:
BigZuck wrote:This thread was fun the first 17 times we did it but we're not going to rehash this again, sorry OP.
has
If you want a serious answer just read some posts by Michigan students and it'll be clear as day.


Can you elablorate on this, BigZuck? It's the second time I've seen you say to read posts by Michigan students, but I've lurked and lurked and in my lurking read close to a bajillion posts by Mich students and frankly I don't understand what you mean. It is not clear as day.

Or can we at least get some links to specific instances of Mich dumbness/awfulness/demonshit? As a 0L without a dog in this fight, I'm just genuinely curious.

(sorry if this is rehashing)


After the election we got an email about a school-sponsored event for the "opportunity to experience some stress-busting, self-care activities such as coloring sheets, play dough, positive card-making, Legos, and bubbles with your fellow law students."

Other than that, life here is pretty normal.

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby XUMickeal » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:50 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
SweetTort wrote:
nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Also, if you think of the admissions process as your halycon days, you had a different experience than I did.

nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Yea. Went into the cycle dreaming of NYU. Got in. Went to Michigan. Good choice. Questions?

cavalier1138 wrote:
nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Lived in NYC before school. Going to NYC. Picked Michigan over NYU, don't regret choice for second.

Ann Arbor is awesome and the school provides a great community. I've found myself more able to focus here, and the things I miss in NYC I wouldn't be doing as a law student anyhow.

Different people do well in different environments.


I'm sure they do. But there are quite a few practical drawbacks to living in Ann Arbor when there's no chance in hell you'll be working anywhere in the general vicinity.

Also, I can't possibly avoid remarking on your username. I'm sure it's from your halcyon 0L days, but can you really shill for Mich like that?


I think he was saying that the time before law school was his halcyon days, not the admissions process.


I think I was just being flippant.

It's interesting how strong the reaction has been, though. I actually said Michigan was a good school. I'd say it's a great school. But there's no denying that the Ann Arbor location is a drawback when it comes to taking advantage of nearby career opportunities. The thread isn't asking people to rate Michigan; it's asking why Michigan appears to get a lot of "hatred" compared to its peer schools. Its location is one possible explanation.


Duke is also poorly located yet there hasn't been that much hatred generated towards it.

20170322

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Re: Why the Michigan hatred?

Postby 20170322 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:38 pm

XUMickeal wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
SweetTort wrote:
nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Also, if you think of the admissions process as your halycon days, you had a different experience than I did.

nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Yea. Went into the cycle dreaming of NYU. Got in. Went to Michigan. Good choice. Questions?

cavalier1138 wrote:
nyu2019maybeplease wrote:Lived in NYC before school. Going to NYC. Picked Michigan over NYU, don't regret choice for second.

Ann Arbor is awesome and the school provides a great community. I've found myself more able to focus here, and the things I miss in NYC I wouldn't be doing as a law student anyhow.

Different people do well in different environments.


I'm sure they do. But there are quite a few practical drawbacks to living in Ann Arbor when there's no chance in hell you'll be working anywhere in the general vicinity.

Also, I can't possibly avoid remarking on your username. I'm sure it's from your halcyon 0L days, but can you really shill for Mich like that?


I think he was saying that the time before law school was his halcyon days, not the admissions process.


I think I was just being flippant.

It's interesting how strong the reaction has been, though. I actually said Michigan was a good school. I'd say it's a great school. But there's no denying that the Ann Arbor location is a drawback when it comes to taking advantage of nearby career opportunities. The thread isn't asking people to rate Michigan; it's asking why Michigan appears to get a lot of "hatred" compared to its peer schools. Its location is one possible explanation.


Duke is also poorly located yet there hasn't been that much hatred generated towards it.


Yeah, it also has better employment numbers and splits basically the entire south with UVA.



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