QU v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

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Rigo

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:41 pm

I forget if this has been covered yet: but have you though about getting a Masters in Public Administration or something Ferris?

There are also more Political Management/Communication type graduate degrees you can get too. It sounds like that might be more up your alley. You can get a graduate degree but also work on campaigns and learn more about the day to day electoral politics.

Or a more policy/public administration oriented program will help get you a good job in government.

They're usually 1.5-2 years full-time and less expensive than your options if you're a resident and pick a good public school program. SUNY Albany has a pretty good MPA program, if you're still a New York resident.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:02 pm

Rigo wrote:I forget if this has been covered yet: but have you though about getting a Masters in Public Administration or something Ferris?

There are also more Political Management/Communication type graduate degrees you can get too. It sounds like that might be more up your alley. You can get a graduate degree but also work on campaigns and learn more about the day to day electoral politics.

Or a more policy/public administration oriented program will help get you a good job in government.

They're usually 1.5-2 years full-time and less expensive than your options if you're a resident pick a good public program. SUNY Albany has a pretty good MPA program, if you're still a New York resident.


I've heard alot of people say that was a good way to get into politics, but that tends to be more government work/running campaigns and less for running for office. I'm also not sure if it's a fad or not, because I've been given the impression it's become a trend the last few years(am I wrong, that is just the perception I have) while the JD has been an indicator of political success for a much longer time. I think I'd prefer law to government work as a fall back which is what any field I get into will ultimately be, because running for office is the ultimate goal(maybe being a judge).

If I don't go to law school(which I am considering not because I don't want to go but the costs) and get a masters, I'm getting it in History. That was originally what I was going to do early on in UG, but changed my mind after having a seminar class in law that interested me and subsequently finding out I liked studying common law. However I came to the conclusion there was nothing I could have done with a History masters unless I got a PHD and that it was irrelevant for my political aspirations while the law was better suited as a stepping stone to running for office both in practice and in terms of the content I'd be learning.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:06 pm

It is true that a master's in history without a PhD really doesn't help you out much at all. In theory it can help you in getting high school teaching positions, but in public schools you'll still need to get certification and private schools are super competitive even for people with MAs. Otherwise, it's not going to translate into any particular kind of employment.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby pancakes3 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:07 pm

why do you have political aspirations?

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Ferrisjso

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:12 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:It is true that a master's in history without a PhD really doesn't help you out much at all. In theory it can help you in getting high school teaching positions, but in public schools you'll still need to get certification and private schools are super competitive even for people with MAs. Otherwise, it's not going to translate into any particular kind of employment.


Teaching HS would be hell!

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:12 pm

Yeah I would def pick an MPA over MA History or any other non-skills based graduate program.

And I thought the whole appeal of law was so you could get into government, specifically state governement in Hartford or the like. I'm confused what actual jobs you want now.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:18 pm

And no offense (I want the best for you!) but it's just super naive and silly to get a law degree for a political career when (1) you have never worked on a campaign before to even know what's involved, and (2) law school teaches you absolutely nothing that is useful in politics.

Your man Bernie Sanders didn't go to law school. He got involved locally and made it happen from there.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby zot1 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:19 pm

Since UCONN lost to Miss St, I say Cardozo is the obvious choice here.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:21 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:It is true that a master's in history without a PhD really doesn't help you out much at all. In theory it can help you in getting high school teaching positions, but in public schools you'll still need to get certification and private schools are super competitive even for people with MAs. Otherwise, it's not going to translate into any particular kind of employment.


Teaching HS would be hell!

Not much else you can easily do with a MA in history (to be clear, history MAs do go on to do a lot of different things, but it's going to be like going into non-law jobs with a JD - history as an academic field is just incredibly crowded. If you really love history and can afford it, sure, but it's not going to solve your job search issues at all).

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:24 pm

Rigo wrote:Yeah I would def pick an MPA over MA History or any other non-skills based graduate program.

And I thought the whole appeal of law was so you could get into government, specifically state governement in Hartford or the like. I'm confused what actual jobs you want now.


I honestly don't know what kind of legal job I want in particular which is why I get so frustrated with Cavalier sometimes lol. I guess the government jobs are a good fall back but from what I hear, while those tend to be nicer relaxing and have better benefits with greater security, I'm afraid I'm going to like it to much and lose my ambition(I know that probably sounds really dumb but I'm being serious). I'm considering several legal paths, clerkships, tax law(if an LLM isn't required), I also always liked the idea of working PD or DA in a small town somewhere(it didn't have to be CT but that seems the optimal choice, I mentioned I was looking at VA for that reason), meet somebody, have kids, live ordinary life for a decade-15 years before I start making political moves. I know this sounds like a mess, but hey I'm a 0L and I feel like It's okay to not have everything mapped out 100%. Also was considering doing JA in the Marines(I could have applied through my school and it looked promising, guaranteed job post LS) last year but I didn't think I could have handled the physical training that was required for the program.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:24 pm

Rigo wrote:And no offense (I want the best for you!) but it's just super naive and silly to get a law degree for a political career when (1) you have never worked on a campaign before to even know what's involved, and (2) law school teaches you absolutely nothing that is useful in politics.

Your man Bernie Sanders didn't go to law school. He got involved locally and made it happen from there.


I have worked on 6 campaigns. I know people think that which is why I used to not bring it up, just wanted to avoid the conversation because I knew what you guys thought. From my experience in politics, I came to a very different conclusion. There's also the very high percentage of JD's who get elected office(even if my man Bernie isn't one of them:) that to me has to be a correlation. I feel like people on here just are really anti "JD Advantage" because the stat is used by law schools to boost their employment numbers(which is totally understandable) but that doesn't mean it's a total illusion. This is going to sound silly but I actually like learning for learning sake(I know that position also gets ridiculed but screw it, I don't care I do not see getting any degree as a purely economic decision). I also feel like I need the structure and competitiveness of grading to maintain my sanity(which is another reason PD/DA is so appealing to me, you have winning/losing percentages and it's a job where you can measure how well you're doing etc which is something that college addicted me to).
Last edited by Ferrisjso on Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby grades?? » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:28 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
Rigo wrote:And no offense (I want the best for you!) but it's just super naive and silly to get a law degree for a political career when (1) you have never worked on a campaign before to even know what's involved, and (2) law school teaches you absolutely nothing that is useful in politics.

Your man Bernie Sanders didn't go to law school. He got involved locally and made it happen from there.


I have worked on 6 campaigns.


You are coming straight from undergrad.

This is either:

1- clearly bullshit

2- you worked on 6 campaigns for lunch lady

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:30 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:I honestly don't know what kind of legal job I want in particular which is why I get so frustrated with Cavalier sometimes lol. I guess the government jobs are a good fall back but from what I hear, while those tend to be nicer relaxing and have better benefits with greater security, I'm afraid I'm going to like it to much and lose my ambition(I know that probably sounds really dumb but I'm being serious). I'm considering several legal paths, clerkships, tax law(if an LLM isn't required), I also always liked the idea of working PD or DA in a small town somewhere(it didn't have to be CT but that seems the optimal choice, I mentioned I was looking at VA for that reason), meet somebody, have kids, live ordinary life for a decade-15 years before I start making political moves. I know this sounds like a mess, but hey I'm a 0L and I feel like It's okay to not have everything mapped out 100%. Also was considering doing JA in the Marines(I could have applied through my school and it looked promising, guaranteed job post LS) last year but I didn't think I could have handled the physical training that was required for the program.


And this is why I get so frustrated with you. Not knowing which legal job you want "in particular" is no big deal. Not knowing if you want to be a lawyer, get an MA in History, work in politics, run for office, or join the Marines is a big fucking deal.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Dcc617 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:31 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
Rigo wrote:Yeah I would def pick an MPA over MA History or any other non-skills based graduate program.

And I thought the whole appeal of law was so you could get into government, specifically state governement in Hartford or the like. I'm confused what actual jobs you want now.


I honestly don't know what kind of legal job I want in particular which is why I get so frustrated with Cavalier sometimes lol. I guess the government jobs are a good fall back but from what I hear, while those tend to be nicer relaxing and have better benefits with greater security, I'm afraid I'm going to like it to much and lose my ambition(I know that probably sounds really dumb but I'm being serious). I'm considering several legal paths, clerkships, tax law(if an LLM isn't required), I also always liked the idea of working PD or DA in a small town somewhere(it didn't have to be CT but that seems the optimal choice, I mentioned I was looking at VA for that reason), meet somebody, have kids, live ordinary life for a decade-15 years before I start making political moves. I know this sounds like a mess, but hey I'm a 0L and I feel like It's okay to not have everything mapped out 100%. Also was considering doing JA in the Marines(I could have applied through my school and it looked promising, guaranteed job post LS) last year but I didn't think I could have handled the physical training that was required for the program.


Actually, the military may not be a bad option for you. Try to go OCS, get a few years dealing with real issues and real people, save up money, get sweet educational benefits. If Trump weren't in the White House I'd say it was a slam dunk.

ETA But not marines or army.
Last edited by Dcc617 on Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby pancakes3 » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:31 pm

It's ok to not have everything mapped out 100% but that's Cav's point. You have no idea what you're going to do, so why commit to law school? If you're interested in politics, why not apply to be a staffer on Capitol Hill? Or keep working on elections? Or work as a paralegal somewhere and try and figure out what practice entails? Military service - OCS would look good for a political resume.

Once you start law school, you'll be headed down a path and if you don't go to the right school, many of your employment decisions will be made for you. You won't get to clerk. You'll be shut out of DA jobs based on the location of your law school. There are ways to figure out what you want to do that do not involve diving headfirst into law school.

Going to law school now is not a good move for you and it has little to do with your age. If you were a 50 year old guy, Cav and a bunch of other TLSers would be giving him the same advice.

edit: scooped on OCS by mere seconds.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:35 pm

grades?? wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
Rigo wrote:And no offense (I want the best for you!) but it's just super naive and silly to get a law degree for a political career when (1) you have never worked on a campaign before to even know what's involved, and (2) law school teaches you absolutely nothing that is useful in politics.

Your man Bernie Sanders didn't go to law school. He got involved locally and made it happen from there.


I have worked on 6 campaigns.


You are coming straight from undergrad.

This is either:

1- clearly bullshit

2- you worked on 6 campaigns for lunch lady


I worked for 3 before UG, 3 during. They're all on my resume's I sent to LS's! 1 was just volunteer phone banking for Obama and Sherrod Brown in 2012 so I guess you can knock it down to 5 if you want to(but we did some valuable phone banking in Cayuga county Ohio where Obama ran up the score in those final weeks before the election so god damm it I'm taking credit for helping with that because I'm proud of that, even think I swung a few people on that one) I also worked for Bernie up in New Hampshire and got to go to the victory speech, which was the happiest moment of my life!

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:36 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:I honestly don't know what kind of legal job I want in particular which is why I get so frustrated with Cavalier sometimes lol. I guess the government jobs are a good fall back but from what I hear, while those tend to be nicer relaxing and have better benefits with greater security, I'm afraid I'm going to like it to much and lose my ambition(I know that probably sounds really dumb but I'm being serious). I'm considering several legal paths, clerkships, tax law(if an LLM isn't required), I also always liked the idea of working PD or DA in a small town somewhere(it didn't have to be CT but that seems the optimal choice, I mentioned I was looking at VA for that reason), meet somebody, have kids, live ordinary life for a decade-15 years before I start making political moves. I know this sounds like a mess, but hey I'm a 0L and I feel like It's okay to not have everything mapped out 100%. Also was considering doing JA in the Marines(I could have applied through my school and it looked promising, guaranteed job post LS) last year but I didn't think I could have handled the physical training that was required for the program.


And this is why I get so frustrated with you. Not knowing which legal job you want "in particular" is no big deal. Not knowing if you want to be a lawyer, get an MA in History, work in politics, run for office, or join the Marines is a big fucking deal.


Judge Advocate means you're a lawyer in the Marines, it requires a JD.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:37 pm

Ferrisjso wrote: I also worked for Bernie up in New Hampshire and got to go to the victory speech, which was the happiest moment of my life!

I feel like you should follow this passion. Seriously.
Coming from someone who wishes he did when he was 22.

Go get a Hill job and dip into that world for awhile if you want something more stable than campaigns.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby stego » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:46 pm

How are things going ITT, guys? Has Ferris decided on a law school yet?

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:46 pm

Rigo wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote: I also worked for Bernie up in New Hampshire and got to go to the victory speech, which was the happiest moment of my life!

I feel like you should follow this passion. Seriously.
Coming from someone who wishes he did when he was 22.

Go get a Hill job and dip into that world for awhile if you want something more stable than campaigns.


Out of curiosity how would I go about doing that?(there's a limited amount of congressmen even Democrats who would approve of my Social Media history). I am considering bailing on LS(again purely due to finances unless I can get some familal guarantees of assistance) and having a potential alternative in place would be great.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby stego » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:48 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:It is true that a master's in history without a PhD really doesn't help you out much at all. In theory it can help you in getting high school teaching positions, but in public schools you'll still need to get certification and private schools are super competitive even for people with MAs. Otherwise, it's not going to translate into any particular kind of employment.


Teaching HS would be hell!

Not all private schools are super competitive. Like a small private Christian school would be easier to get a job at but these also don't pay very well (at least not initially).

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:54 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:I have worked on 6 campaigns. I know people think that which is why I used to not bring it up, just wanted to avoid the conversation because I knew what you guys thought. From my experience in politics, I came to a very different conclusion. There's also the very high percentage of JD's who get elected office(even if my man Bernie isn't one of them:) that to me has to be a correlation. I feel like people on here just are really anti "JD Advantage" because the stat is used by law schools to boost their employment numbers(which is totally understandable) but that doesn't mean it's a total illusion. This is going to sound silly but I actually like learning for learning sake(I know that position also gets ridiculed but screw it, I don't care I do not see getting any degree as a purely economic decision). I also feel like I need the structure and competitiveness of grading to maintain my sanity(which is another reason PD/DA is so appealing to me, you have winning/losing percentages and it's a job where you can measure how well you're doing etc which is something that college addicted me to).

I know I can't really say this in a way that's going to be convincing, but this kind of attitude tends to lead to a lot of unhappiness. You're putting your self worth in external matters you can't entirely control. It's not very healthy and it tends to do a fair amount of damage in the long run. I say this as someone who did put all my self worth into succeeding at my job due to succeeding a lot throughout school and not really knowing how else to value myself, and who had to deal with working through all that.

Also, re: "I'm afraid I'm going to like it too much and lose my ambition" - that attitude also seems really disturbing to me. If you find a job that you like and a life that you like and it doesn't look like what you think it should right now, what's wrong with that? If the ambition is really something you want to do, you will want to do it regardless. If your desire for a particular path wanes, it's probably because that's not the right career path for you.

I realize I'm not being at all articulate here and again, I know there's no way to make this really convincing when that's your current mindset, but I don't think these are good bases for making serious life decisions.

(Also, stego, I think you underestimate how many overeducated historians there are looking for jobs.)

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Shakawkaw » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:55 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
Rigo wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote: I also worked for Bernie up in New Hampshire and got to go to the victory speech, which was the happiest moment of my life!

I feel like you should follow this passion. Seriously.
Coming from someone who wishes he did when he was 22.

Go get a Hill job and dip into that world for awhile if you want something more stable than campaigns.


Out of curiosity how would I go about doing that?(there's a limited amount of congressmen even Democrats who would approve of my Social Media history). I am considering bailing on LS(again purely due to finances unless I can get some familal guarantees of assistance) and having a potential alternative in place would be great.


This silver spoon mentality is exactly why you should not be going to law school. Higher education is a privilege. Take out loans like a normal person. Why should your parents take on your debt for you?

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Shakawkaw » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:57 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote: I say this as someone who did put all my self worth into succeeding at my job due to succeeding a lot throughout school and not really knowing how else to value myself, and who had to deal with working through all that.

Nony, not to shift this on you, but genuinely curious - how did you break from this mentality?

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:58 pm

Shakawkaw wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote: I say this as someone who did put all my self worth into succeeding at my job due to succeeding a lot throughout school and not really knowing how else to value myself, and who had to deal with working through all that.

Nony, not to shift this on you, but genuinely curious - how did you break from this mentality?

By failing miserably at one point. :lol: It made me realize that 1) life didn't end because I failed and 2) the person I had to worry about pleasing was myself, because I couldn't control others' reactions to/assessments of me.

Also getting hobbies.

Also I still have to remind myself of these lessons a fair amount.



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