QU v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

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beforethelaw

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby beforethelaw » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:55 am

I knew a rhetoric prof whose big idea was that people don't evaluate situations and then make arguments about what they see to be true, they form their identity through belief and then make arguments that justify those beliefs at all costs.

Always kinda thought he was a kook, but this thread seems like a good example of that actually happening. At the very least, I'd guess he got that idea after an argument as futile as this one.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby poptart123 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:01 am

Not understanding why you are embarrassed about your dad working as a chef in a strip club. People gotta eat.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby snw2367 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:04 am

Ferrisjso wrote:QU is my undergrad so I have a special soft spot for it(also the campus is fucking beautiful and regardless of what people say it actually is regarded pretty well locally, I wholeheartedly believe it will eventually be a TT that will be seen as a peer of the Cardozo, Brooklyn's and UCONN's of the world, you at least got to give them it seems they're willing to spend the massive amount of money over a long period of time to do that). In terms of me "scavenging TTTT's just for shits and giggles", well you guys have made me a nervous wreck about debt so the natural remedy for someone not willing to give up on law school is to keep less expensive opportunities with lesser employment prospects open. Anyway if I don't get Deans Fellows QU is out and even then they openly said they would not negotiate stips, which is pretty close to a deal breaker. It still is mostly UCONN v Dozo.

I just tend to think more debt is worth it for less prestigious schools than the consensus on here, although I will admit staring it down yourself is a bit more humbling than expected. I actually am considering not going because UCONN responded to me with their scholarship increase and it was so bad, I'm actually too embarrassed to post it on here.


HOW were you not already a nervous wreck about debt??? And we're not talking about a decent-new-car-for-25k debt, we're talking about upwards of 130K. That's a small house in many areas. I was upset when I needed to finance a laptop purchase last week, let's be real.

Also, a lot of schools are dumping money into improving their rankings. I know for a fact that UCONN is doing it to attract higher stat applicants.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby lymenheimer » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:07 am

Nevermind. You wont listen
Last edited by lymenheimer on Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Nebby » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:26 am

beforethelaw wrote:I knew a rhetoric prof whose big idea was that people don't evaluate situations and then make arguments about what they see to be true, they form their identity through belief and then make arguments that justify those beliefs at all costs.

Always kinda thought he was a kook, but this thread seems like a good example of that actually happening. At the very least, I'd guess he got that idea after an argument as futile as this one.

Naw he's correct. We all do this. I'd also argue it's not an irrational practice. What is irrational, however, is, through the process of arguing in justification, if it becomes apparent through argument or introspection that the belief is indefensible, one decides against amending the initial belief. That is irrational.

What I don't think people recognize is that Ferrisjso doesn't appear to believe his options are great, rather he fully recognizes that they're suboptimal. He is rationally choosing among the least likely unfavorable outcome. I think the rational choice is that Dozo represents the least likely to beget an unfavorable outcome from an objective perspective.

However, there are subjective factors that I cannot account for because they're ultimately idiosyncratic value judgements. The biggest being an aversion to his family. Dozo requires him to live with family, and he's pretty dead set against it. None of us know how shitty his family is, but they're obviously shitty if he's willing to choose a school that is objectively an imprudent decision.

I think all that can be said on the subject has been said ad nauseum. All we can do is stop belittling him and let him make his own decision. Hopefully he's not just another statistic.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby jjcorvino » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:31 am

Nebby wrote:
beforethelaw wrote:I knew a rhetoric prof whose big idea was that people don't evaluate situations and then make arguments about what they see to be true, they form their identity through belief and then make arguments that justify those beliefs at all costs.

Always kinda thought he was a kook, but this thread seems like a good example of that actually happening. At the very least, I'd guess he got that idea after an argument as futile as this one.

Naw he's correct. We all do this. I'd also argue it's not an irrational practice. What is irrational, however, is, through the process of arguing in justification, if it becomes apparent through argument or introspection that the belief is indefensible, one decides against amending the initial belief. That is irrational.

What I don't think people recognize is that Ferrisjso doesn't appear to believe his options are great, rather he fully recognizes that they're suboptimal. He is rationally choosing among the least likely unfavorable outcome. I think the rational choice is that Dozo represents the least likely to beget an unfavorable outcome from an objective perspective.

However, there are subjective factors that I cannot account for because they're ultimately idiosyncratic value judgements. The biggest being an aversion to his family. Dozo requires him to live with family, and he's pretty dead set against it. None of us know how shitty his family is, but they're obviously shitty if he's willing to choose a school that is objectively an imprudent decision.

I think all that can be said on the subject has been said ad nauseum. All we can do is stop belittling him and let him make his own decision. Hopefully he's not just another statistic.


I don't know how shitty his family life can be if they are willing to sell a house to finance his education.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:36 am

He said he would get his own apartment for 1L if he went to Cardozo, I thought.

When I was going to school I moved out to avoid a toxic family relationship even though I was initially commuting from home. I was 30 minutes away but it felt like worlds apart. You can easily have your own space/life in NYC.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Nebby » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:40 am

Rigo wrote:He said he would get his own apartment for 1L if he went to Cardozo, I thought.

When I was going to school I moved out to avoid a toxic family relationship even though I was initially commuting from home. I was 30 minutes away but it felt like worlds apart. You can easily have your own space/life in NYC.

I don't think the cost of his own apartment is reflected in the Dozo $90k COA he stated.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby snw2367 » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:41 am

Rigo wrote:He said he would get his own apartment for 1L if he went to Cardozo, I thought.

When I was going to school I moved out to avoid a toxic family relationship even though I was initially commuting from home. I was 30 minutes away but it felt like worlds apart. You can easily have your own space/life in NYC.


I think I remember reading something about how he liked being the strong voice in a room and that happens more in CT than NYC?

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Nebby » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:42 am

jjcorvino wrote:
Nebby wrote:
beforethelaw wrote:I knew a rhetoric prof whose big idea was that people don't evaluate situations and then make arguments about what they see to be true, they form their identity through belief and then make arguments that justify those beliefs at all costs.

Always kinda thought he was a kook, but this thread seems like a good example of that actually happening. At the very least, I'd guess he got that idea after an argument as futile as this one.

Naw he's correct. We all do this. I'd also argue it's not an irrational practice. What is irrational, however, is, through the process of arguing in justification, if it becomes apparent through argument or introspection that the belief is indefensible, one decides against amending the initial belief. That is irrational.

What I don't think people recognize is that Ferrisjso doesn't appear to believe his options are great, rather he fully recognizes that they're suboptimal. He is rationally choosing among the least likely unfavorable outcome. I think the rational choice is that Dozo represents the least likely to beget an unfavorable outcome from an objective perspective.

However, there are subjective factors that I cannot account for because they're ultimately idiosyncratic value judgements. The biggest being an aversion to his family. Dozo requires him to live with family, and he's pretty dead set against it. None of us know how shitty his family is, but they're obviously shitty if he's willing to choose a school that is objectively an imprudent decision.

I think all that can be said on the subject has been said ad nauseum. All we can do is stop belittling him and let him make his own decision. Hopefully he's not just another statistic.


I don't know how shitty his family life can be if they are willing to sell a house to finance his education.

Money isn't everything.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:43 am

snw2367 wrote:
Rigo wrote:He said he would get his own apartment for 1L if he went to Cardozo, I thought.

When I was going to school I moved out to avoid a toxic family relationship even though I was initially commuting from home. I was 30 minutes away but it felt like worlds apart. You can easily have your own space/life in NYC.


I think I remember reading something about how he liked being the strong voice in a room and that happens more in CT than NYC?

He definitely made an impression at Quinnipiac asw.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Nebby » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:43 am

snw2367 wrote:
Rigo wrote:He said he would get his own apartment for 1L if he went to Cardozo, I thought.

When I was going to school I moved out to avoid a toxic family relationship even though I was initially commuting from home. I was 30 minutes away but it felt like worlds apart. You can easily have your own space/life in NYC.


I think I remember reading something about how he liked being the strong voice in a room and that happens more in CT than NYC?

He did say that and it's a dumb reason to attend an objectively bad school.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:44 am

Nebby wrote:
Rigo wrote:He said he would get his own apartment for 1L if he went to Cardozo, I thought.

When I was going to school I moved out to avoid a toxic family relationship even though I was initially commuting from home. I was 30 minutes away but it felt like worlds apart. You can easily have your own space/life in NYC.

I don't think the cost of his own apartment is reflected in the Dozo $90k COA he stated.

Im kind of confused where the COA's stand as of now since this thread is so long and there have been updates since the first page, but yeah you're probably right.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby beforethelaw » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:45 am

Nebby wrote:
jjcorvino wrote:
Nebby wrote:
beforethelaw wrote:I knew a rhetoric prof whose big idea was that people don't evaluate situations and then make arguments about what they see to be true, they form their identity through belief and then make arguments that justify those beliefs at all costs.

Always kinda thought he was a kook, but this thread seems like a good example of that actually happening. At the very least, I'd guess he got that idea after an argument as futile as this one.

Naw he's correct. We all do this. I'd also argue it's not an irrational practice. What is irrational, however, is, through the process of arguing in justification, if it becomes apparent through argument or introspection that the belief is indefensible, one decides against amending the initial belief. That is irrational.

What I don't think people recognize is that Ferrisjso doesn't appear to believe his options are great, rather he fully recognizes that they're suboptimal. He is rationally choosing among the least likely unfavorable outcome. I think the rational choice is that Dozo represents the least likely to beget an unfavorable outcome from an objective perspective.

However, there are subjective factors that I cannot account for because they're ultimately idiosyncratic value judgements. The biggest being an aversion to his family. Dozo requires him to live with family, and he's pretty dead set against it. None of us know how shitty his family is, but they're obviously shitty if he's willing to choose a school that is objectively an imprudent decision.

I think all that can be said on the subject has been said ad nauseum. All we can do is stop belittling him and let him make his own decision. Hopefully he's not just another statistic.


I don't know how shitty his family life can be if they are willing to sell a house to finance his education.

Money isn't everything.


Well said. Many families with money have serious problems. Should go without saying.

IIRC, in his first post he said he wanted to avoid family and friends. It can be very hard to do this if you stay in the same city as them. This is one issue I definitely sympathize with Ferris on, but at the same time, I think that the difference in outcomes warrants staying in New York and developing a different network--especially if having his own place is a possibility. At law school you'll be meeting tons of new people, you can find a niche there.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Nebby » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:46 am

Rigo wrote:
Nebby wrote:
Rigo wrote:He said he would get his own apartment for 1L if he went to Cardozo, I thought.

When I was going to school I moved out to avoid a toxic family relationship even though I was initially commuting from home. I was 30 minutes away but it felt like worlds apart. You can easily have your own space/life in NYC.

I don't think the cost of his own apartment is reflected in the Dozo $90k COA he stated.

Im kind of confused where the COA's stand as of now since this thread is so long and there have been updates since the first page, but yeah you're probably right.

Yeah. Assuming COA for Dozo didn't include his own apartment, then it's probably closer to $150k which makes it an objectively bad choice

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:47 am

You said UConn raised your scholly a bit.
Can we get a breakdown of where everything currently stands in terms of COA, ferris?

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby shadowfax » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:11 am

Bueller????Bueller????

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:32 am

Rigo wrote:You said UConn raised your scholly a bit.
Can we get a breakdown of where everything currently stands in terms of COA, ferris?


The offer was really low and changes nothing. Im almost certain everyone on here would agree and the amount isnt even worth posting. I dont need someone to tell me the offer isnt good, I can fugure that one out myself. Dozo on the other hand gave me 3k a year. I wrote another negotiating email but that really took the wind out of my sails.

In terms of NY im not just running away from my friends and family im running away from the culture(which everyone I know is a part of behaviorwise).The kind of person i need to be happy there is not someone im willing to be anymore and not someone id be proud of being. Cardozo would still be cheaper if i dormed(id only be doing it for crucial 1L year) but it would be far less overwhelming.

Keep in mind I was always rounding up a bit with COA to account for tuition increases and interest.

Dozo is now about 90k
UCONN is basically the same 140-200(depending om in state)
QU is about 60k-65k with stips

Widener has been eliminated due to advice I recieved on the thread. Im honestly considering not going that scholly email demoralized me.
Last edited by Ferrisjso on Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Nebby » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:35 am

Ferrisjso wrote:
Rigo wrote:You said UConn raised your scholly a bit.
Can we get a breakdown of where everything currently stands in terms of COA, ferris?


The offer was really low and changes nothing. Im almost certain everyone on here would agree and the amount isnt even worth posting. I dont need someone to tell me the offer isnt good, I can fugure that one out myself. Dozo on the other hand gave me 3k a year. I wrote another negotiating email but that really took the wind out of my sails.

In terms of NY im not just running away from my friends and family im running away from the culture(which everyone I know is a part of behaviorwise).The kind of person i need to be happy there is not someone im willing to be anymore and not someone id be proud of being. Cardozo would still be cheaper if i dormed(id only be doing it for crucial 1L year) but it would be far less overwhelming.

What are the COA of UConn and Dozo?

ETA: nvm I just saw your edits
Last edited by Nebby on Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Nebby » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:37 am

Ferrisjso wrote:
Rigo wrote:You said UConn raised your scholly a bit.
Can we get a breakdown of where everything currently stands in terms of COA, ferris?


The offer was really low and changes nothing. Im almost certain everyone on here would agree and the amount isnt even worth posting. I dont need someone to tell me the offer isnt good, I can fugure that one out myself. Dozo on the other hand gave me 3k a year. I wrote another negotiating email but that really took the wind out of my sails.

In terms of NY im not just running away from my friends and family im running away from the culture(which everyone I know is a part of behaviorwise).The kind of person i need to be happy there is not someone im willing to be anymore and not someone id be proud of being. Cardozo would still be cheaper if i dormed(id only be doing it for crucial 1L year) but it would be far less overwhelming.

Keep in mind I was always rounding up a bit with COA to account for tuition increases and interest.

Dozo is now about 90k
UCONN is basically the same 140-200(depending om in state)
QU is about 60k-65k with stips

Widener has been eliminated due to advice I recieved on the thread. Im honestly considering not going that scholly email demoralized me.

What scholly email?

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Shakawkaw » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:37 am

Dorming at Dozo is an objectively bad decision (if your goal is to minimize costs). The cost of the dorms are twice as much as you'd pay otherwise, and you aren't provided housing for breaks.

ETA: Is COA including housing expenses?

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:39 am

Shakawkaw wrote:Dorming at Dozo is an objectively bad decision (if your goal is to minimize costs). The cost of the dorms are twice as much as you'd pay otherwise, and you aren't provided housing for breaks.


My logic here was i want to be in best position to get good 1l grades and dorming would be a huge help there. I know financially they wouldnt make sense.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:40 am

When will you be able to determine if you're getting in-state or not at UConn?
It's not even worth considering if closer to the $200k.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:41 am

Shakawkaw wrote:Dorming at Dozo is an objectively bad decision (if your goal is to minimize costs). The cost of the dorms are twice as much as you'd pay otherwise, and you aren't provided housing for breaks.

ETA: Is COA including housing expenses?


No.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:41 am

Ferrisjso wrote:
Shakawkaw wrote:Dorming at Dozo is an objectively bad decision (if your goal is to minimize costs). The cost of the dorms are twice as much as you'd pay otherwise, and you aren't provided housing for breaks.

My logic here was i want to be in best position to get good 1l grades and dorming would be a huge help there. I know financially they wouldnt make sense.

I'm with ferris on this one. It doesn't have to be a dorm but the living on his own and closer to campus part.



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