QU v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

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dbalkaran

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby dbalkaran » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:07 am

JohannDeMann wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Update Cardozo gave me 3k a year more.

Cavalier please stop, I have no tolerance for that ageist BS.


I really think he's just trying to help. He's being blunt, but if you're actually just a senior in undergrad then I really think you should wait to go to law school because you seem all over the place.


hes being a complete prick about it. why would you ever listen to someone that is being a prick thinking they have your best interests at heart? so of course hes not listening to him (its the only rational decision to ignore someone being a prick claiming to be trying to help you).

i think ferris is a little bit over the map (so are lots of people - including myself). if ferris has done his homework on the stats and understands the risk but needs to do this for himself, you have to move on and start being constructive within the parameters being set.


Cavalier is a prick in a lot of threads, I just recommended taking some time off before going to law school because it helped me a lot to be sure law school was right. I'm most likely going to a lower ranked law school and I understand the risks of that, but I also had over a year and a half to evaluate whether or not those risks were worth taking and I want Ferrisjso to be sure they're ready to take those risks as well. Shit got real for me very quickly once I had to start paying my own bills and got out of the bubble that is college. Just food for thought, but hey I wouldn't discourage someone from going to law school if that's what they really want. I'm definitely not from the T14 or bust school of thought.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Johann » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:11 am

dbalkaran wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Update Cardozo gave me 3k a year more.

Cavalier please stop, I have no tolerance for that ageist BS.


I really think he's just trying to help. He's being blunt, but if you're actually just a senior in undergrad then I really think you should wait to go to law school because you seem all over the place.


hes being a complete prick about it. why would you ever listen to someone that is being a prick thinking they have your best interests at heart? so of course hes not listening to him (its the only rational decision to ignore someone being a prick claiming to be trying to help you).

i think ferris is a little bit over the map (so are lots of people - including myself). if ferris has done his homework on the stats and understands the risk but needs to do this for himself, you have to move on and start being constructive within the parameters being set.


Cavalier is a prick in a lot of threads, I just recommended taking some time off before going to law school because it helped me a lot to be sure law school was right. I'm most likely going to a lower ranked law school and I understand the risks of that, but I also had over a year and a half to evaluate whether or not those risks were worth taking and I want Ferrisjso to be sure they're ready to take those risks as well. Shit got real for me very quickly once I had to start paying my own bills and got out of the bubble that is college. Just food for thought, but hey I wouldn't discourage someone from going to law school if that's what they really want. I'm definitely not from the T14 or bust school of thought.


i think taking off time is smart as well. im just saying hes not gonna get anywhere treating people poorly. if you present your advice in a complete shit manner, it can be great advice and no ones gonna take it seriously or read it. hes presenting shittily. if i were ferris id take a year off. but if hes hell bent on going to law school right now, so be it, he should feel comfortable going to UConn and go in with a good mindset.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby dbalkaran » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:13 am

JohannDeMann wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Update Cardozo gave me 3k a year more.

Cavalier please stop, I have no tolerance for that ageist BS.


I really think he's just trying to help. He's being blunt, but if you're actually just a senior in undergrad then I really think you should wait to go to law school because you seem all over the place.


hes being a complete prick about it. why would you ever listen to someone that is being a prick thinking they have your best interests at heart? so of course hes not listening to him (its the only rational decision to ignore someone being a prick claiming to be trying to help you).

i think ferris is a little bit over the map (so are lots of people - including myself). if ferris has done his homework on the stats and understands the risk but needs to do this for himself, you have to move on and start being constructive within the parameters being set.


Cavalier is a prick in a lot of threads, I just recommended taking some time off before going to law school because it helped me a lot to be sure law school was right. I'm most likely going to a lower ranked law school and I understand the risks of that, but I also had over a year and a half to evaluate whether or not those risks were worth taking and I want Ferrisjso to be sure they're ready to take those risks as well. Shit got real for me very quickly once I had to start paying my own bills and got out of the bubble that is college. Just food for thought, but hey I wouldn't discourage someone from going to law school if that's what they really want. I'm definitely not from the T14 or bust school of thought.


i think taking off time is smart as well. im just saying hes not gonna get anywhere treating people poorly. if you present your advice in a complete shit manner, it can be great advice and no ones gonna take it seriously or read it. hes presenting shittily. if i were ferris id take a year off. but if hes hell bent on going to law school right now, so be it, he should feel comfortable going to UConn and go in with a good mindset.


A voice of reason on TLS...this is very refreshing.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby UVA2B » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:14 am

dbalkaran wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Update Cardozo gave me 3k a year more.

Cavalier please stop, I have no tolerance for that ageist BS.


I really think he's just trying to help. He's being blunt, but if you're actually just a senior in undergrad then I really think you should wait to go to law school because you seem all over the place.


hes being a complete prick about it. why would you ever listen to someone that is being a prick thinking they have your best interests at heart? so of course hes not listening to him (its the only rational decision to ignore someone being a prick claiming to be trying to help you).

i think ferris is a little bit over the map (so are lots of people - including myself). if ferris has done his homework on the stats and understands the risk but needs to do this for himself, you have to move on and start being constructive within the parameters being set.


Cavalier is a prick in a lot of threads, I just recommended taking some time off before going to law school because it helped me a lot to be sure law school was right. I'm most likely going to a lower ranked law school and I understand the risks of that, but I also had over a year and a half to evaluate whether or not those risks were worth taking and I want Ferrisjso to be sure they're ready to take those risks as well. Shit got real for me very quickly once I had to start paying my own bills and got out of the bubble that is college. Just food for thought, but hey I wouldn't discourage someone from going to law school if that's what they really want. I'm definitely not from the T14 or bust school of thought.


I appreciate your candor, but not many on this board are actually "T13(14) or bust." It's entirely possible someone should go to Yale, Penn, Vanderbilt, Cardozo, or Dickinson, if their goals align.

I feel like a few of us current law students/graduates tend to be harsh, but it's mostly because there are flaws in the way prospective students are approaching this decision, and we truly want to help. Take it for what it is: uninvolved parties genuinely interested in helping you.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby dbalkaran » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:18 am

UVA2B wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Update Cardozo gave me 3k a year more.

Cavalier please stop, I have no tolerance for that ageist BS.


I really think he's just trying to help. He's being blunt, but if you're actually just a senior in undergrad then I really think you should wait to go to law school because you seem all over the place.


hes being a complete prick about it. why would you ever listen to someone that is being a prick thinking they have your best interests at heart? so of course hes not listening to him (its the only rational decision to ignore someone being a prick claiming to be trying to help you).

i think ferris is a little bit over the map (so are lots of people - including myself). if ferris has done his homework on the stats and understands the risk but needs to do this for himself, you have to move on and start being constructive within the parameters being set.


Cavalier is a prick in a lot of threads, I just recommended taking some time off before going to law school because it helped me a lot to be sure law school was right. I'm most likely going to a lower ranked law school and I understand the risks of that, but I also had over a year and a half to evaluate whether or not those risks were worth taking and I want Ferrisjso to be sure they're ready to take those risks as well. Shit got real for me very quickly once I had to start paying my own bills and got out of the bubble that is college. Just food for thought, but hey I wouldn't discourage someone from going to law school if that's what they really want. I'm definitely not from the T14 or bust school of thought.


I appreciate your candor, but not many on this board are actually "T13(14) or bust." It's entirely possible someone should go to Yale, Penn, Vanderbilt, Cardozo, or Dickinson, if their goals align.

I feel like a few of us current law students/graduates tend to be harsh, but it's mostly because there are flaws in the way prospective students are approaching this decision, and we truly want to help. Take it for what it is: uninvolved parties genuinely interested in helping you.


That's true...I guess when I first came to this forum I saw so many people scaring the shit out of me that if I didn't get into a T14 school I was going to fail as a lawyer, but I'm starting to find more reasonable people that don't have to resort to being a condescending douche to get their point across like yourself and Johann.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby UVA2B » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:27 am

dbalkaran wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Update Cardozo gave me 3k a year more.

Cavalier please stop, I have no tolerance for that ageist BS.


I really think he's just trying to help. He's being blunt, but if you're actually just a senior in undergrad then I really think you should wait to go to law school because you seem all over the place.


hes being a complete prick about it. why would you ever listen to someone that is being a prick thinking they have your best interests at heart? so of course hes not listening to him (its the only rational decision to ignore someone being a prick claiming to be trying to help you).

i think ferris is a little bit over the map (so are lots of people - including myself). if ferris has done his homework on the stats and understands the risk but needs to do this for himself, you have to move on and start being constructive within the parameters being set.


Cavalier is a prick in a lot of threads, I just recommended taking some time off before going to law school because it helped me a lot to be sure law school was right. I'm most likely going to a lower ranked law school and I understand the risks of that, but I also had over a year and a half to evaluate whether or not those risks were worth taking and I want Ferrisjso to be sure they're ready to take those risks as well. Shit got real for me very quickly once I had to start paying my own bills and got out of the bubble that is college. Just food for thought, but hey I wouldn't discourage someone from going to law school if that's what they really want. I'm definitely not from the T14 or bust school of thought.


I appreciate your candor, but not many on this board are actually "T13(14) or bust." It's entirely possible someone should go to Yale, Penn, Vanderbilt, Cardozo, or Dickinson, if their goals align.

I feel like a few of us current law students/graduates tend to be harsh, but it's mostly because there are flaws in the way prospective students are approaching this decision, and we truly want to help. Take it for what it is: uninvolved parties genuinely interested in helping you.


That's true...I guess when I first came to this forum I saw so many people scaring the shit out of me that if I didn't get into a T14 school I was going to fail as a lawyer, but I'm starting to find more reasonable people that don't have to resort to being a condescending douche to get their point across like yourself and Johann.


I'm pretty sure I'm T13 for being a douche in the on-topics based on popular vote, but appreciate the love regardless.

There is no failure going to a strong regional for the right price. As long as goals align with the price, you're making a great decision. Some of the best law school decisions made every year are those with scholarships who want to work in local public service in their state, where they won't go into crippling debt while practicing law in their area.

Your goals should come first. Once you figure those out, figure out what it will take to achieve those goals. Finally, figure out how much it will take to maximize your chance of achieving your goals.

The calculus will never be exactly the same, and reasonable people will likely disagree, but if you weigh these factors accordingly, you'll figure out this decision.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby dbalkaran » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:28 am

UVA2B wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:
dbalkaran wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Update Cardozo gave me 3k a year more.

Cavalier please stop, I have no tolerance for that ageist BS.


I really think he's just trying to help. He's being blunt, but if you're actually just a senior in undergrad then I really think you should wait to go to law school because you seem all over the place.


hes being a complete prick about it. why would you ever listen to someone that is being a prick thinking they have your best interests at heart? so of course hes not listening to him (its the only rational decision to ignore someone being a prick claiming to be trying to help you).

i think ferris is a little bit over the map (so are lots of people - including myself). if ferris has done his homework on the stats and understands the risk but needs to do this for himself, you have to move on and start being constructive within the parameters being set.


Cavalier is a prick in a lot of threads, I just recommended taking some time off before going to law school because it helped me a lot to be sure law school was right. I'm most likely going to a lower ranked law school and I understand the risks of that, but I also had over a year and a half to evaluate whether or not those risks were worth taking and I want Ferrisjso to be sure they're ready to take those risks as well. Shit got real for me very quickly once I had to start paying my own bills and got out of the bubble that is college. Just food for thought, but hey I wouldn't discourage someone from going to law school if that's what they really want. I'm definitely not from the T14 or bust school of thought.


I appreciate your candor, but not many on this board are actually "T13(14) or bust." It's entirely possible someone should go to Yale, Penn, Vanderbilt, Cardozo, or Dickinson, if their goals align.

I feel like a few of us current law students/graduates tend to be harsh, but it's mostly because there are flaws in the way prospective students are approaching this decision, and we truly want to help. Take it for what it is: uninvolved parties genuinely interested in helping you.


That's true...I guess when I first came to this forum I saw so many people scaring the shit out of me that if I didn't get into a T14 school I was going to fail as a lawyer, but I'm starting to find more reasonable people that don't have to resort to being a condescending douche to get their point across like yourself and Johann.


I'm pretty sure I'm T13 for being a douche in the on-topics based on popular vote, but appreciate the love regardless.

There is no failure going to a strong regional for the right price. As long as goals align with the price, you're making a great decision. Some of the best law school decisions made every year are those with scholarships who want to work in local public service in their state, where they won't go into crippling debt while practicing law in their area.

Your goals should come first. Once you figure those out, figure out what it will take to achieve those goals. Finally, figure out how much it will take to maximize your chance of achieving your goals.

The calculus will never be exactly the same, and reasonable people will likely disagree, but if you weigh these factors accordingly, you'll figure out this decision.


I've seen you and Johann go at it a few times, but you don't compare to Hikko's level of douchery haha.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Nebby » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:32 am

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby uion1715 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:38 am

Been following the thread. I got a sense that UVA/Cavalier are frustrated not only because Ferris refuses to retake, but also because the Ferris's goal of jumping into politics does not really match with his target schools. If one got a 158 LSAT but is perfectly content with small law firm work and can attend a decent law school at a low cost, people tend to give advice that isn't just "retake". When the goal simply does not align with the target schools/statistics, that's when the TLS crowd gets frustrated.

Running for political offices cost $$$. You need connections and/or $$$ to campaign year-round. The sense I was getting from the folks in the thread is that none of the available options provides that for Ferris.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Johann » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:44 am

Ferris is out of retakes. He'd have to wait a couple of years (which I would do if I were him) but if he's going to start his life now we can't act like a 2 year time hold is also the same for everyone. Based on his urgency to go to law school, he's out of retakes.

Politics is unlikely from ALL schools including T14. If that's his dream though, going to NYu isn't going to significantly help his political career. It's an unlikely goal, but I doubt Connecticut politics really have shit all to do with a high ranking law school.

And my understanding is he's also fine being a lawyer outside of politics and hasn't precluded anything yet. That he's open minded to all sorts of outcomes including small law firms and hanging a shingle later.

All of those outcomes are mehs for his goals. If he comes back and says he wants a top state AG or judge nom, sure he needs to go to a better law school. But let's not pretend his uconn degree is going to impede his local run and if only he had went to but he'd be getting votes and 25k in party donations.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Dcc617 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:48 am

JohannDeMann wrote:Ferris is out of retakes. He'd have to wait a couple of years (which I would do if I were him) but if he's going to start his life now we can't act like a 2 year time hold is also the same for everyone. Based on his urgency to go to law school, he's out of retakes.

Politics is unlikely from ALL schools including T14. If that's his dream though, going to NYu isn't going to significantly help his political career. It's an unlikely goal, but I doubt Connecticut politics really have shit all to do with a high ranking law school.

And my understanding is he's also fine being a lawyer outside of politics and hasn't precluded anything yet. That he's open minded to all sorts of outcomes including small law firms and hanging a shingle later.

All of those outcomes are mehs for his goals. If he comes back and says he wants a top state AG or judge nom, sure he needs to go to a better law school. But let's not pretend his uconn degree is going to impede his local run and if only he had went to but he'd be getting votes and 25k in party donations.


Ferris needs to take a couple years in the real world. There's no rush for law school. Ferris' plans don't make sense.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:01 am

JohannDeMann wrote:sorry i realize i said 1/3 of my class left law for JD advantage on a second read which is not what i meant to say. 1/3 of my class has left the law. although many of those for jd advantage, some have been for completely non-JD related things. if zuck was beefing about the 1/3 and JD-adv stat, fine fair point. if he was beefing about 1/3 of my class leaving the law, he's wrong. my original point to cavalier was mainly law sucks and is not compensated high enough to warrant the suckiness for many many people, which equates to about 1/3 of my class.


Your original "point" was based on the premise that I'm a 0L (I'm not) and that you can argue the relative merits of going to a shit school based on bullshit numbers. You make things up and then immediately retreat from your made-up nonsense in order to appear that you were robustly sane the entire time.

Look, we get it. You hate the law. It might have something to do with you having fucking terrible job options after school, but who knows? Maybe all attorneys hate their life, including the ones who stay involved in the field long after retirement age. Or maybe people who don't know what they're doing before school (like the OP) shouldn't be told to just go ahead and throw away three years of their life on a field they don't actually have any interest in.

1/3 of your class didn't have good options coming out of school. That isn't true for the vast majority of T14 students, regardless of how "motivated" they are. The whole point of people not recommending shit options like UCONN is that students with no clue what they should be doing (like the OP) can't go to a school that will completely cut off entire career tracks just by virtue of the school name.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:45 am

I feel like the "hating the law"/"leaving the law for JD advantage jobs" thing got blown out of proportion. The original point was just that UConn's employment numbers can't be explained by self-selection/choosing to go into JD advantage jobs any more than any other school's - so while that's a possibility that can't be quantified, it's not artificially depressing UConn's numbers specifically. Yes, people leave the law and yes, people take JD advantage jobs both out of choice and because they can't find JD-required jobs. Neither of those things is really that relevant to making a decision here.

In the end everyone has to make the choice they're comfortable with. If ferris decides to go to UConn, then good luck to him (I mostly don't want him giving bad advice to other people).

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:15 am

Damm i got alot to respond to. Didnt mean to spark a conflict. It just irratates me when people use expierence as a ace in the hole of an argument. Also yeah I am tired of dealing with Cavalier whos far more agressive than most.

The whole reason I didnt bring up politics is exactly because I didnt want this type of conversation. My ultimatd goa is politics and running for office but the odds of that being successful are slim and law is what Id want to be doing before a political career/ if i crash and burn. Politics whether a JD or not seems to depend alot on area (in NY it most certainly helps and i know this because at a few of my jobs it was a topic of discussion. Im sure the anecdotal evidence that others brought up is true as well its a big country and I dont think for a second the same rules apply nationwide.

Also I know I guve the impression of being stubborn but I have not as several people put it "made the decision to go to UCONN and am looking for valadation". I've been lurking on TLS for years, do you honestly think I expect TLS to give me validation for anything really? Yes its my first choice and Im hoping i end up there but im well aware it costs more. This is because I lwant to practice/live in CT and I know UCONN gives me the best shot at this. Also if i go to Cardozo ive made the decision i will dorm the first year seeing the importance of 1l grades and the pain in the ass the commute is. Maybe QU can sway me this weekend.

Also if i do choose mot to go it will be a huge decision because since the third semester in college ive been obssessed with law school micromanaging my GPA, studying for LSAT and lurking on these forums for several years. When somethings been the focus of your life several years its hard to give up just because a few people tell you its a bad idea. Just want to let you know i really do listen and worry about the shit you all say even though i take somes words more seriously than others. Also if people wonder where my skeptisism about high LSAT scores comes from keep in mind ive met like a dozen 0ls in real life and ive never met someone higher than a 160.
Last edited by Ferrisjso on Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:23 am

Ferrisjso wrote:Damm i got alot to respond to. Didnt mean to spark a conflict. It just irratates me when people use expierence as a ace in the hole of an argument. Also yeah I am tired of dealing with Cavalier whos far more agressive than most.

The whole reason I didnt bring up politics is exactly because I didnt want this type of conversation. My ultimatd goa is politics and running for office but the odds of that being successful are slim and law is what Id want to be doing before a political career/ if i crash and burn. Politics whether a JD or not seems to depend alot on area (in NY it most certainly helps and i know this because at a few of my jobs it was a topic of discussion. Im sure the anecdotal evidence that others brought up is true as well its a big country and I dont think for a second the same rules apply nationwide.


Sure, no need to trust people with far more work experience in the political field than you. I'm sorry if that seems "aggressive", but you have been aggressively reckless about this decision since day one on this forum. I literally have no more patience for your bullshit.

You want to throw away money and time on a pointless degree? Go for it. You're making an idiotic decision, and anyone being "kinder" isn't doing you any favors.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby lymenheimer » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:35 am

Ferrisjso wrote:Also if people wonder where my skeptisism about high LSAT scores comes from keep in mind ive met like a dozen 0ls in real life and ive never met someone higher than a 160.

Well...when you go to ASWs at schools that have medians below 160, what do you think you're gonna find? Are they members of this board? Did they use any of the study methods suggested on this board? Also, it's generally kind of weird to talk about lsat scores, unless it's in the context of studying.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby jjcorvino » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:45 am

Ferrisjso wrote:Damm i got alot to respond to. Didnt mean to spark a conflict. It just irratates me when people use expierence as a ace in the hole of an argument. Also yeah I am tired of dealing with Cavalier whos far more agressive than most.

The whole reason I didnt bring up politics is exactly because I didnt want this type of conversation. My ultimatd goa is politics and running for office but the odds of that being successful are slim and law is what Id want to be doing before a political career/ if i crash and burn. Politics whether a JD or not seems to depend alot on area (in NY it most certainly helps and i know this because at a few of my jobs it was a topic of discussion. Im sure the anecdotal evidence that others brought up is true as well its a big country and I dont think for a second the same rules apply nationwide.

Also I know I guve the impression of being stubborn but I have not as several people put it "made the decision to go to UCONN and am looking for valadation". Yes its my first choice and Im hoping i end up there but im well aware it costs more. This is because I lwant to practice/live in CT and I know UCONN gives me the best shot at this. Also if i go to Cardozo ive made the decision i will dorm the first year seeing the importance of 1l grades and the pain in the ass the commute is. Maybe QU can sway me this weekend.

Also if i do choose mot to go it will be a huge decision because since the third semester in college ive been obssessed with law school micromanaging my GPA, studying for LSAT and lurking on these forums for several years. When somethings been the focus of your life several years its hard to give up just because a few people tell you its a bad idea. Just want to let you know i really do listen and worry about the shit you all say even though i take somes words more seriously than others. Also if people wonder where my skeptisism about high LSAT scores comes from keep in mind ive met like a dozen 0ls in real life and ive never met someone higher than a 160.


I am not going to touch the rest of it. I think I have expressed my opinion on the political job thing. However, your anecdotal evidence of LSAT scores also doesn't mean anything. I currently have 5 friends that are applying to law schools. Scores are: 159, 167, 3 in the 170s (never told me exact scores). I know a lot of people that went to law school (dozens). The vast majority of them went to T14 (13?) schools. If they didn't, they went to state flagships. I am positive that my experience is not normal either, but you shouldn't extrapolate from your friends to the rest of the population.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby blueapple » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:48 am

Ferrisjso wrote:since the third semester in college ive been obssessed with law school


So, since your sophomore spring you've been obsessed with law school. It's now your senior spring. So for two years you've been obsessed with law school. That is a REALLY short amount of time. Don't rush into this decision for no reason. You're likely going to end up in crushing debt without a legal job and without a path into politics. If you go to UConn and DO get a legal job, you won't be able to pay off your loans.

Here's my advice: If you want to get to Connecticut, retake until your score gets you a full ride at UConn. And learn how to drive because I don't understand how you could live in Connecticut off of a college campus without a car, let alone a driver's license.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby jjcorvino » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:52 am

blueapple wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:since the third semester in college ive been obssessed with law school


So, since your sophomore spring you've been obsessed with law school. It's now your senior spring. So for two years you've been obsessed with law school. That is a REALLY short amount of time. Don't rush into this decision for no reason. You're likely going to end up in crushing debt without a legal job and without a path into politics. If you go to UConn and DO get a legal job, you won't be able to pay off your loans.

Here's my advice: If you want to get to Connecticut, retake until your score gets you a full ride at UConn. And learn how to drive because I don't understand how you could live in Connecticut off of a college campus without a car, let alone a driver's license.


+1, I am now far more concerned about the not driving thing right now than anything else. Driving is not optional if you life anywhere except a giant city (NY, Philly, Boston, DC, SF).

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:13 am

lymenheimer wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Also if people wonder where my skeptisism about high LSAT scores comes from keep in mind ive met like a dozen 0ls in real life and ive never met someone higher than a 160.

Well...when you go to ASWs at schools that have medians below 160, what do you think you're gonna find? Are they members of this board? Did they use any of the study methods suggested on this board? Also, it's generally kind of weird to talk about lsat scores, unless it's in the context of studying.


I actually met the highest scores at the ASW I attended. I'm mostly referring to outside experience.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby ZVBXRPL » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:17 am

Ferrisjso wrote:Damm i got alot to respond to. Didnt mean to spark a conflict. It just irratates me when people use expierence as a ace in the hole of an argument. Also yeah I am tired of dealing with Cavalier whos far more agressive than most.

The whole reason I didnt bring up politics is exactly because I didnt want this type of conversation. My ultimatd goa is politics and running for office but the odds of that being successful are slim and law is what Id want to be doing before a political career/ if i crash and burn. Politics whether a JD or not seems to depend alot on area (in NY it most certainly helps and i know this because at a few of my jobs it was a topic of discussion. Im sure the anecdotal evidence that others brought up is true as well its a big country and I dont think for a second the same rules apply nationwide.

Also I know I guve the impression of being stubborn but I have not as several people put it "made the decision to go to UCONN and am looking for valadation". Yes its my first choice and Im hoping i end up there but im well aware it costs more. This is because I lwant to practice/live in CT and I know UCONN gives me the best shot at this. Also if i go to Cardozo ive made the decision i will dorm the first year seeing the importance of 1l grades and the pain in the ass the commute is. Maybe QU can sway me this weekend.

Also if i do choose mot to go it will be a huge decision because since the third semester in college ive been obssessed with law school micromanaging my GPA, studying for LSAT and lurking on these forums for several years. When somethings been the focus of your life several years its hard to give up just because a few people tell you its a bad idea. Just want to let you know i really do listen and worry about the shit you all say even though i take somes words more seriously than others. Also if people wonder where my skeptisism about high LSAT scores comes from keep in mind ive met like a dozen 0ls in real life and ive never met someone higher than a 160.

I agree - some of the scores people post are hard to believe, but I choose to believe that they are mostly accurate, though maybe fudged a bit for anonymity.

I have met people in real life who have gotten high scores. Believe it or not, they exist lol. These are personal friends/acquaintances of mine: A 166er at Northwestern, 2 168ers I met at GT interview, 174 at H, 169 at UVA, 168 at H (transferred from Berk), 180 graduated H, 2 173 applicants (from an LSAT course I took), and a 165 (course). And also a 163 at Cardozo, a 153er who decided against going to LS, a 156 at U of Richmond, and a 157 at Rutgers.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:19 am

ZVBXRPL wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Damm i got alot to respond to. Didnt mean to spark a conflict. It just irratates me when people use expierence as a ace in the hole of an argument. Also yeah I am tired of dealing with Cavalier whos far more agressive than most.

The whole reason I didnt bring up politics is exactly because I didnt want this type of conversation. My ultimatd goa is politics and running for office but the odds of that being successful are slim and law is what Id want to be doing before a political career/ if i crash and burn. Politics whether a JD or not seems to depend alot on area (in NY it most certainly helps and i know this because at a few of my jobs it was a topic of discussion. Im sure the anecdotal evidence that others brought up is true as well its a big country and I dont think for a second the same rules apply nationwide.

Also I know I guve the impression of being stubborn but I have not as several people put it "made the decision to go to UCONN and am looking for valadation". Yes its my first choice and Im hoping i end up there but im well aware it costs more. This is because I lwant to practice/live in CT and I know UCONN gives me the best shot at this. Also if i go to Cardozo ive made the decision i will dorm the first year seeing the importance of 1l grades and the pain in the ass the commute is. Maybe QU can sway me this weekend.

Also if i do choose mot to go it will be a huge decision because since the third semester in college ive been obssessed with law school micromanaging my GPA, studying for LSAT and lurking on these forums for several years. When somethings been the focus of your life several years its hard to give up just because a few people tell you its a bad idea. Just want to let you know i really do listen and worry about the shit you all say even though i take somes words more seriously than others. Also if people wonder where my skeptisism about high LSAT scores comes from keep in mind ive met like a dozen 0ls in real life and ive never met someone higher than a 160.

I agree - some of the scores people post are hard to believe, but I choose to believe that they are mostly accurate, though maybe fudged a bit for anonymity.

I have met people in real life who have gotten high scores. Believe it or not, they exist lol. These are personal friends/acquaintances of mine: A 166er at Northwestern, 2 168ers I met at GT interview, 174 at H, 169 at UVA, 168 at H (transferred from Berk), 180 graduated H, 2 173 applicants (from an LSAT course I took), and a 165 (course). And also a 163 at Cardozo, a 153er who decided against going to LS, a 156 at U of Richmond, and a 157 at Rutgers.


I know they're real, I've always just made the argument that they're an oversized demographic by alot. 3% of students or something get 170s something tells me the number on here is why higher, 165's it's only 8%. For every one of those 170 kids there's someone hanging around in the low 130s(yes I know that concept is horrifying). Anyway let's get back on topic. I'll update when the rest of my news comes in.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:54 am

There are lots of people who score lower on the LSAT, but they don't all end up even applying, let alone going to law school. And while high scores are a small percentage of takers, I think that 1) you can't take the sample of people you personally encounter as statistically representative (for instance, not knocking your school, but scores aren't distributed equally across undergrads - you may be in an area with low scorers), and 2) there are still a lot of people out there who don't really get the significance of the LSAT or understand that they can study and learn the test (look at how many people do show up here and don't want to retake; how many people who think like that never make it here to be yelled at and stick with their original scores?). So while you may only know people at 160 and below, you don't know that that's actually their max potential. (And I say all these things because I should have retaken.)

But again, as long as someone is fully aware of the statistics and their likely outcomes and so on, it is ultimately their choice (even if I feel compelled to argue with the specific reasoning sometimes). Good luck working everything out.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Johann » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:06 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:sorry i realize i said 1/3 of my class left law for JD advantage on a second read which is not what i meant to say. 1/3 of my class has left the law. although many of those for jd advantage, some have been for completely non-JD related things. if zuck was beefing about the 1/3 and JD-adv stat, fine fair point. if he was beefing about 1/3 of my class leaving the law, he's wrong. my original point to cavalier was mainly law sucks and is not compensated high enough to warrant the suckiness for many many people, which equates to about 1/3 of my class.


Your original "point" was based on the premise that I'm a 0L (I'm not) and that you can argue the relative merits of going to a shit school based on bullshit numbers. You make things up and then immediately retreat from your made-up nonsense in order to appear that you were robustly sane the entire time.

Look, we get it. You hate the law. It might have something to do with you having fucking terrible job options after school, but who knows? Maybe all attorneys hate their life, including the ones who stay involved in the field long after retirement age. Or maybe people who don't know what they're doing before school (like the OP) shouldn't be told to just go ahead and throw away three years of their life on a field they don't actually have any interest in.

1/3 of your class didn't have good options coming out of school. That isn't true for the vast majority of T14 students, regardless of how "motivated" they are. The whole point of people not recommending shit options like UCONN is that students with no clue what they should be doing (like the OP) can't go to a school that will completely cut off entire career tracks just by virtue of the school name.


The stat is that 15% of all lawyers (including those from top law schools) leave the law within 3 years. you ignore the stats you don't like. Law is a beast (I'm fine with my job - hence why I'm still a lawyer) I'm just warning other people that they may not like law as much as they anticipate.

And 1/3 of my class didn't have good options COMING OUT of law school. You are correct. Maybe more. However, law school is a lifelong investment and at this point several years out from graduation, everyone that is still a lawyer is fine with both their decision going to law school AND their decision to go to a lower ranked school.

Again, you're out of your element here because you aren't a lawyer, haven't been to one of these schools, and don't know stats.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Johann » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:10 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Damm i got alot to respond to. Didnt mean to spark a conflict. It just irratates me when people use expierence as a ace in the hole of an argument. Also yeah I am tired of dealing with Cavalier whos far more agressive than most.

The whole reason I didnt bring up politics is exactly because I didnt want this type of conversation. My ultimatd goa is politics and running for office but the odds of that being successful are slim and law is what Id want to be doing before a political career/ if i crash and burn. Politics whether a JD or not seems to depend alot on area (in NY it most certainly helps and i know this because at a few of my jobs it was a topic of discussion. Im sure the anecdotal evidence that others brought up is true as well its a big country and I dont think for a second the same rules apply nationwide.


Sure, no need to trust people with far more work experience in the political field than you. I'm sorry if that seems "aggressive", but you have been aggressively reckless about this decision since day one on this forum. I literally have no more patience for your bullshit.

You want to throw away money and time on a pointless degree? Go for it. You're making an idiotic decision, and anyone being "kinder" isn't doing you any favors.


Median income for a bar passer 10 years after graduating a Ttt is 100k according to beyond the JD study. I wouldn't call the degree meaningless.



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