QU v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

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Ferrisjso
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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:23 pm

uion1715 wrote:Just two things, Ferris (and here goes nothing):

Widener has the 10th highest attrition rate in the country. 30.5 percent of the 1L left the school. Take this post for instance (viewtopic.php?t=10076):

I'm in my 3rd semester at WUSL-DE. Grade deflation is the biggest issue. Small 4th tier schools are plagued by grade deflation. We work harder for the same grades as higher ranked schools because the curve is so low. The curve for 1L's is something like a 2.3-2.69, which is insane. My friends at Temple Law had a 1L curve of 2.7-2.9 and over a 3.0 for 2L and 3L. Widener NEVER gets above a 3.0 curve.

Grade deflation is one of the tools WUSL uses to slash the 1L class by 1/3 for the 2L year. If you make that cut chances are you'll graduate. Widener's party line on the intentional cut is they give people a chance to prove themselves that other schools turn away. Ok. But it's also a fact that those 1/3 ( about 100 ppl) spend about $55,000, minimum, for that wasted year. Money that is typically borrowed and needs to be paid back starting almost immediately upon withdrawal from school. Seems like a cash-cow to me.

So, if WUSL is the only law school you get into beware. You have a 1/3 chance of getting the boot.


Widener was also sued in 2016 for misrepresenting its career statistics:

http://blogs.findlaw.com/greedy_associa ... nding.html

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/new ... /88904918/

It's not just that less than 50 percent of the students at Widener can find a job. It's also that if you account for the school's attrition and the bar passage rate, a very good chunk of the students at Widener can't get a bar license to begin with.

EDIT: Let me phrase it this way - You have a greater chance of failing out of Widener than getting a decent job.

Again, a 0L here, and do what you want with UConn, etc. but Widener cannot be your option.


Message received, Dozo/Brooklyn is now my third choice.

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Rigo
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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:50 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
Rigo wrote:I don't see any reason to choose Widener over a full ride at Quinnipiac, especially as one of the only 20-something people on the planet who loves Connecticut.

Because the full ride(which is 2k short of a full ride right now) is conditional(top 50%) even if I get the National Fellows the stip is top 75%. I'm honestly curious why Connecticut seems to get such a bad rap on here? Widener's scholly is unconditional, it also will allow me to dorm on campus so I don't have to learn how to drive!

Forgot about the stips.

And Connecticut is fine. I'm just from New England/Tri-State Area and Connecticut is just pretty boring and only for stepford wives imo. All my friends from Connecticut rag on it too. Not because it's awful--just that there isn't much to do. Just light ribbing. (And I don't need to debate this. If you love it, great!)

Less than half of Widener grads are working as lawyers though, which should be really concerning. If you want to be a lawyer, don't go.

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Ferrisjso
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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:05 pm

Rigo wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
Rigo wrote:I don't see any reason to choose Widener over a full ride at Quinnipiac, especially as one of the only 20-something people on the planet who loves Connecticut.

Because the full ride(which is 2k short of a full ride right now) is conditional(top 50%) even if I get the National Fellows the stip is top 75%. I'm honestly curious why Connecticut seems to get such a bad rap on here? Widener's scholly is unconditional, it also will allow me to dorm on campus so I don't have to learn how to drive!

Forgot about the stips.

And Connecticut is fine. I'm just from New England/Tri-State Area and Connecticut is just pretty boring and only for stepford wives imo. All my friends from Connecticut rag on it too. Not because it's awful--just that there isn't much to do. Just light ribbing. (And I don't need to debate this. If you love it, great!)

Less than half of Widener grads are working as lawyers though, which should be really concerning. If you want to be a lawyer, don't go.


Yeah, you guys have succeeded in convincing me Widener's a no! Should I go to take a picture of the mall though? I've also sent another negotiating email to UCONN, so I hope that works out!

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:12 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
Rigo wrote:I don't see any reason to choose Widener over a full ride at Quinnipiac, especially as one of the only 20-something people on the planet who loves Connecticut.


Because the full ride(which is 2k short of a full ride right now) is conditional(top 50%) even if I get the National Fellows the stip is top 75%. I'm honestly curious why Connecticut seems to get such a bad rap on here? Widener's scholly is unconditional, it also will allow me to dorm on campus so I don't have to learn how to drive!


As long as you're focusing on the important things.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:19 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
Rigo wrote:I don't see any reason to choose Widener over a full ride at Quinnipiac, especially as one of the only 20-something people on the planet who loves Connecticut.


Because the full ride(which is 2k short of a full ride right now) is conditional(top 50%) even if I get the National Fellows the stip is top 75%. I'm honestly curious why Connecticut seems to get such a bad rap on here? Widener's scholly is unconditional, it also will allow me to dorm on campus so I don't have to learn how to drive!


As long as you're focusing on the important things.


I get the whole "nothing matters but cost" argument, but really dude, my ability to get around doesn't seem superficial to me.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby uion1715 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:27 pm

So, let's reset and recap:

You have UConn for $135k COA (Which may get funded by your parents), Cardozo for $100k COA (From what I understand, you would live at home saving COA. But I would at least add a good $30k to the COA because living at home isn't free), as well as Brooklyn for about $80k COA.

Quinnipac or Widener at full ride should not be taken given its abysmal employment rate below 50%. Richmond/W+L off the waitlist and at a likely sticker price is also a terrible option.

You want to work in Connecticut, Virginia, or New York, and you don't really have a job you are gunning for. If you don't get a job after law school, you want to do "something else" until your debts are paid off and enter politics.

Am I getting you right, Ferris?

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:32 pm

uion1715 wrote:So, let's reset and recap:

You have UConn for $135k COA (Which may get funded by your parents), Cardozo for $100k COA (From what I understand, you would live at home saving COA. But I would at least add a good $30k to the COA because living at home isn't free), as well as Brooklyn for about $80k COA.

Quinnipac or Widener at full ride should not be taken given its abysmal employment rate below 50%. Richmond/W+L off the waitlist and at a likely sticker price is also a terrible option.

You want to work in Connecticut, Virginia, or New York, and you don't really have a job you are gunning for. If you don't get a job after law school, you want to do "something else" until your debts are paid off and enter politics.

Am I getting you right, Ferris?


Aside from Brooklyn you're exactly right! Brooklyn has 70k+cost of attendance if I were to commute(which is damm near impossible otherwise it'd be my top choice, and is about the same as UCONN if I were to dorm. I'm fine with Quinnipiac's employment numbers(everyone from the area has nothing but great things to say about it) my main issues there is the scholly stips and the lack of accommodations for non driving people. Also with Brooklyn I have schollly stips of top 80%, but it's also a 2 year program.

Another important piece of info is that I've have requested scholarship increases from both Cardozo and UCONN.

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Rigo
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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:43 pm

I thought you completely crossed Cardozo off?

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:49 pm

Rigo wrote:I thought you completely crossed Cardozo off?


I wrote a few posts back that I changed my mind after having a little more time to think about it. Still am much less likely to attend than I was before I went but I'm thinking my bad commuting experience might have had more to do with the weather than the experience itself. It's also still the cheapest non stip/ mall option(except CUNY) and if they do increase my scholarship, I should not be taking that off the table.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby uion1715 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:11 pm

Really quick, here's my story:

I am a 0L, a senior in a decent college. I took the LSAT last year, got a decent/good score, and was just about to apply. Some lower T14s, some T20s.

I decided to sit out a year and retake because A) I had room to improve in my LSAT scores, B) I read the following two threads on TLS.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=192753&start=10800

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=162790

If those threads don't persuade you, then so be it, but it's definitely worth a look. I will put in a vote for Cardozo (It's cheaper and has the best employment outcome out of your choices), but just like everyone else, I urge you to seriously reconsider your decision to go to law school THIS year.

Now, for the regular programming...

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby bretby » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:46 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:Okay no need to be trolling now. Im going to see Widener myself on April 1st(oh no, itll be april fools) so im going to be able to see this famous mall for myself!


Cardozo is the best choice here by a landslide. I know the other factors (location, etc.) are important to you, but strictly on cost/return, Cardozo is your best bet.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Johann » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:53 pm

why in the hell are people talking about widener instead of uconn. ferris, what's wrong with UConn?

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Johann » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:55 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
uion1715 wrote:So, let's reset and recap:

You have UConn for $135k COA (Which may get funded by your parents), Cardozo for $100k COA (From what I understand, you would live at home saving COA. But I would at least add a good $30k to the COA because living at home isn't free), as well as Brooklyn for about $80k COA.

Quinnipac or Widener at full ride should not be taken given its abysmal employment rate below 50%. Richmond/W+L off the waitlist and at a likely sticker price is also a terrible option.

You want to work in Connecticut, Virginia, or New York, and you don't really have a job you are gunning for. If you don't get a job after law school, you want to do "something else" until your debts are paid off and enter politics.

Am I getting you right, Ferris?


Aside from Brooklyn you're exactly right! Brooklyn has 70k+cost of attendance if I were to commute(which is damm near impossible otherwise it'd be my top choice, and is about the same as UCONN if I were to dorm. I'm fine with Quinnipiac's employment numbers(everyone from the area has nothing but great things to say about it) my main issues there is the scholly stips and the lack of accommodations for non driving people. Also with Brooklyn I have schollly stips of top 80%, but it's also a 2 year program.

Another important piece of info is that I've have requested scholarship increases from both Cardozo and UCONN.


why in the hell does living at home have a 30k cost?

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Nebby » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:59 pm

Cardozo or Brooklyn are your only good choices. I'd do Cardozo

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:02 pm

Nebby wrote:Cardozo or Brooklyn are your only good choices. I'd do Cardozo


Brooklyn's the same price as UCONN though basically and everyone is saying that's a bad choice?

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Johann » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:04 pm

cardozo is your best choice. uconn is fine assuming there is some reason you would be happier for the next 3 years there. i dont see hwo brooklyn should be in play given its in the same spot as cardozo.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Ferrisjso » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:04 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:why in the hell are people talking about widener instead of uconn. ferris, what's wrong with UConn?


The price. My biggest concern with UCONN is that if I get in state tuition the most expensive year is the one I will be paying three year's interest on. It's the school I most want to attend and if they give me more money(I feel I made a compelling argument in my last scholarship email) I'm going.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Nebby » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:07 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
Nebby wrote:Cardozo or Brooklyn are your only good choices. I'd do Cardozo


Brooklyn's the same price as UCONN though basically and everyone is saying that's a bad choice?

Uconn sucks. It costs more in your scenario. Basically impossible to exist without a car. Employment stats aren't good. I think Cardozo gives you the best shot at employment and the cost is good

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby uion1715 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:08 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:
uion1715 wrote:So, let's reset and recap:

You have UConn for $135k COA (Which may get funded by your parents), Cardozo for $100k COA (From what I understand, you would live at home saving COA. But I would at least add a good $30k to the COA because living at home isn't free), as well as Brooklyn for about $80k COA.

Quinnipac or Widener at full ride should not be taken given its abysmal employment rate below 50%. Richmond/W+L off the waitlist and at a likely sticker price is also a terrible option.

You want to work in Connecticut, Virginia, or New York, and you don't really have a job you are gunning for. If you don't get a job after law school, you want to do "something else" until your debts are paid off and enter politics.

Am I getting you right, Ferris?


Aside from Brooklyn you're exactly right! Brooklyn has 70k+cost of attendance if I were to commute(which is damm near impossible otherwise it'd be my top choice, and is about the same as UCONN if I were to dorm. I'm fine with Quinnipiac's employment numbers(everyone from the area has nothing but great things to say about it) my main issues there is the scholly stips and the lack of accommodations for non driving people. Also with Brooklyn I have schollly stips of top 80%, but it's also a 2 year program.

Another important piece of info is that I've have requested scholarship increases from both Cardozo and UCONN.


why in the hell does living at home have a 30k cost?


I would think food, transportation, books, insurance, etc. should cost you something. $10k per year to account for that doesn't sound unrealistic. Might be overshooting it a bit, but NYC is expensive.

Not to mention health insurance which isn't a part of the tuition.
Last edited by uion1715 on Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rigo
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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:08 pm

Just be aware that almost 10% more of Cardozo grads (68%) actually work as lawyers than UConn grads (59%).

Just want you to be aware of the huge risks here from both a financial and dreams perspective.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Pomeranian » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:40 pm

Quinnipiac isn't a good school (take a look at the employment numbers), no offense.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Stylnator » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:48 pm

Rigo wrote:Just be aware that almost 10% more of Cardozo grads (68%) actually work as lawyers than UConn grads (59%).

Just want you to be aware of the huge risks here from both a financial and dreams perspective.


To be fair, the 59% is skewed downward by the part time program as well as a good chunk of students who return to their previous employer in a non JD required job.

It's not quite the same comparison

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Rigo
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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:53 pm

Stylnator wrote:
Rigo wrote:Just be aware that almost 10% more of Cardozo grads (68%) actually work as lawyers than UConn grads (59%).

Just want you to be aware of the huge risks here from both a financial and dreams perspective.


To be fair, the 59% is skewed downward by the part time program as well as a good chunk of students who return to their previous employer in a non JD required job.

It's not quite the same comparison

I don't see why we should give UConn leeway and not Cardozo or any other school. I fail to see how this is comparing apples to oranges.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Stylnator » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:01 pm

Rigo wrote:
Stylnator wrote:
Rigo wrote:Just be aware that almost 10% more of Cardozo grads (68%) actually work as lawyers than UConn grads (59%).

Just want you to be aware of the huge risks here from both a financial and dreams perspective.


To be fair, the 59% is skewed downward by the part time program as well as a good chunk of students who return to their previous employer in a non JD required job.

It's not quite the same comparison

I don't see why we should give UConn leeway and not Cardozo or any other school. I fail to see how this is comparing apples to oranges.


I'm not saying don't give Cardozo leeway as well. Im just saying that there are factors that could shed light on UConn's low stats. I'm under the assumption that there is a much smaller number of students who go to Cardozo knowing they won't enter into JD required jobs.

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Re: UCONN v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision)

Postby Rigo » Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:02 pm

40% is a large chunk of the class and unfortunately I highly doubt most of that is self-selection.




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