QU v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision) Forum

[cavalier1138]

I like that every time you update the list, you manage to find a school that actually offers worse employment prospects than the ones that came before it. That takes real talent. A+.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I forget, have you actually BEEN to random little towns in Virginia?

[mjb447]

was expecting to get blown away by the facilities, and I just wasn't

Was there a lazy river at least?

[UVA2B]

You're the prototypical reason TLS created a macro for "retake" to be replaced by "good luck, follow your dreams!" awhile back.

I sincerely hope I will be wrong and you'll end up with a desirable outcome. I hope you beat the odds you're facing. Statistics say otherwise, but nonetheless, good luck with your reckless decisions.

(Dealer hand motion to walk away from the table)

[Ferrisjso]

was expecting to get blown away by the facilities, and I just wasn't

Was there a lazy river at least?

No, there wasn't. I wasn't looking for a lazy river though, so I don't know why that's relevant. The number one factor here is region, although I'd be lying if facilities didn't matter. Either way, I shouldn't be going to law school in a place I don't want to practice/live even if it's cheaper.

Thank you UVA2B.

[mjb447]

was expecting to get blown away by the facilities, and I just wasn't

Was there a lazy river at least?

No, there wasn't. I wasn't looking for a lazy river though, so I don't know why that's relevant. The number one factor here is region, although I'd be lying if facilities didn't matter. Either way, I shouldn't be going to law school in a place I don't want to practice/live even if it's cheaper.

Thank you UVA2B.

I've read you and other's describe the details of the system many, many times. I am aware of the 45k tax bomb. If I go to UCONN it is likely I will get substantial outside financial support.

...what does that even mean? Are you going to have a mafia don pay off your debts for you in exchange for a favor? Is your family only going to pay for law school if you go somewhere that gives you a <66% chance of being a lawyer after graduation?

But you're probably right. You should take the architecture of the school into account.

My parents want to move and have expressed willingness to give me part of the money off our houses sale for law school if I leave NY. Seeing property values in NY compared to the rest of the country, the difference would be more than enough to pay off my debt. Didn't want to bring this up as it's personal info that's frankly no one's business but hey getting pummeled as an oblivious idiot with no idea how I'm going to pay back the debt changed my mind.

In terms of architecture, it's not a major factor but I really like the old historical feel. It's not the same as going "hey look, they've got a lazy river I can swim after class". I like nice things.

Sorry, I meant architecture. Looking for a lazy river would be silly.

[Rigo]

You shouldn't go to school anywhere you haven't lived, since that seems like a huge factor for you and you don't want to be stuck somewhere you don't know if you'll like or not (especially rural Virginia at sticker).

You crossed the only decent option off your list so it's hard to advise you if you're neither retaking nor going to Cardozo.
You want us to tell you to go to UConn right? I guess "follow your dreams" will have to do.

[guynourmin]

This isn't good advice, but if UCONN is where your heart is right now at close to $150k, which I think is crazy, you should just say fuck it (you can say it) and gun to get off the W+L waitlist and go there. Effectively you won't notice the cost difference because you won't be able to service either debt, so you'll just be paying your income-based limit. Someone correct me if I'm wrong! (Preferably without saying "tax bomb")

[Ferrisjso]

You shouldn't go to school anywhere you haven't lived, since that seems like a huge factor for you and you don't want to be stuck somewhere you don't know if you'll like or not (especially rural Virginia at sticker).

You crossed the only decent option off your list so it's hard to advise you if you're neither retaking nor going to Cardozo.
You want us to tell you to go to UConn right? I guess "follow your dreams" will have to do.

No, I'm actually torn between the choices on the above list tbh, UCONN is the default choice rn by a very narrow amount(I'm hoping they give me more). Have a QU event next week then Widener the week after that, then UCONN the week after that and the week after that is the deposit deadline(s). W+L/Richmond doesn't even come into play until after that if I get off the WL. I will probably be placing a deposit at UCONN, QU(QU's out if I don't win the National Fellows) or Widener. After a few more days to think about it, I haven't eliminated Cardozo but it's a distant fourth right now.

[proteinshake]

Neither.

[cavalier1138]

You shouldn't go to school anywhere you haven't lived, since that seems like a huge factor for you and you don't want to be stuck somewhere you don't know if you'll like or not (especially rural Virginia at sticker).

You crossed the only decent option off your list so it's hard to advise you if you're neither retaking nor going to Cardozo.
You want us to tell you to go to UConn right? I guess "follow your dreams" will have to do.

No, I'm actually torn between the choices on the above list tbh, UCONN is the default choice rn by a very narrow amount(I'm hoping they give me more). Have a QU event next week then Widener the week after that, then UCONN the week after that and the week after that is the deposit deadline(s). W+L/Richmond doesn't even come into play until after that if I get off the WL. I will probably be placing a deposit at UCONN, QU(QU's out if I don't win the National Fellows) or Widener. After a few more days to think about it, I haven't eliminated Cardozo but it's a distant fourth right now.

So you basically want to put yourself in the worst possible position to get a job out of law school. Is that the general idea?

[Ferrisjso]

You shouldn't go to school anywhere you haven't lived, since that seems like a huge factor for you and you don't want to be stuck somewhere you don't know if you'll like or not (especially rural Virginia at sticker).

You crossed the only decent option off your list so it's hard to advise you if you're neither retaking nor going to Cardozo.
You want us to tell you to go to UConn right? I guess "follow your dreams" will have to do.

No, I'm actually torn between the choices on the above list tbh, UCONN is the default choice rn by a very narrow amount(I'm hoping they give me more). Have a QU event next week then Widener the week after that, then UCONN the week after that and the week after that is the deposit deadline(s). W+L/Richmond doesn't even come into play until after that if I get off the WL. I will probably be placing a deposit at UCONN, QU(QU's out if I don't win the National Fellows) or Widener. After a few more days to think about it, I haven't eliminated Cardozo but it's a distant fourth right now.

So you basically want to put yourself in the worst possible position to get a job out of law school. Is that the general idea?

This is a tough decision if someone doesn't want to tell me what choice they think is best of the stated options(or just give me more information on the schools, that's cool to even if you think they're all bad ideas) please don't post. I already know the positions of many including Cavalier. I'm all for you guys telling me negative information about the schools but just telling me they're all bad ideas doesn't help me at all because I already know you guys think that.

[jjcorvino]

You shouldn't go to school anywhere you haven't lived, since that seems like a huge factor for you and you don't want to be stuck somewhere you don't know if you'll like or not (especially rural Virginia at sticker).

You crossed the only decent option off your list so it's hard to advise you if you're neither retaking nor going to Cardozo.
You want us to tell you to go to UConn right? I guess "follow your dreams" will have to do.

No, I'm actually torn between the choices on the above list tbh, UCONN is the default choice rn by a very narrow amount(I'm hoping they give me more). Have a QU event next week then Widener the week after that, then UCONN the week after that and the week after that is the deposit deadline(s). W+L/Richmond doesn't even come into play until after that if I get off the WL. I will probably be placing a deposit at UCONN, QU(QU's out if I don't win the National Fellows) or Widener. After a few more days to think about it, I haven't eliminated Cardozo but it's a distant fourth right now.

So you basically want to put yourself in the worst possible position to get a job out of law school. Is that the general idea?

This is a tough decision if someone doesn't want to tell me what choice they think is best of the stated options(or just give me more information on the schools, that's cool to even if you think they're all bad ideas) please don't post. I already know the positions of many including Cavalier. I'm all for you guys telling me negative information about the schools but just telling me they're all bad ideas doesn't help me at all because I already know you guys think that.

I don't really know what you want to hear then. People are telling you the bad about the schools because there is not much that is good to talk about.

[UVA2B]

You are the biggest net negative here hands down. I hope that's fun.

[GoLandcrabs]

Not to say it's likely you make it in politics because It's rare. But you can't say that a JD doesn't matter in the industry that writes the law where we'll over 50% of high ranking people have a JD.

But what about an industry where over 35% of the people wear their underwear on their head at night before conducting pagan rituals? Making up statistics is fun!

Also, as always, people keep ignoring that current politicians in their 40s-80s might have a large population of JDs. Younger politicians don't have the same trend, because thanks to degrees like the MPP and the general American disdain for education, we're drifting away from that.

This is generally irrelevant though, since @Ferrisjso knew full well that this was a stupid reason to go to law school and has deliberately avoided mentioning it on any prior threads precisely because they knew what advice they would get. Confirmation bias is a helluva drug.

No cavalier, I already knew from past threads what people thought on the topic and didn't want to get in a pointless argument. From my time working in politics, I can tell you this, JD's have a huge advantage in terms of getting paid work, and in terms of holding office, Johann is correct an overwhelming majority of public servants in congress and most if not all state legislatures have the JD. There is no official requirement and by that merit you're right but the person with the JD who goes to work in politics will get paid right off the bat when for other people finding paid work is rather difficult when what most politicians really want are either "unpaid interns" or "volunteers". Anyway the reason I didn't mention it is because I didn't want to talk about it. Can we drop it? As of this moment this thread has served it's purpose, as of right now the right decision seems to be to go to Cardozo( although I have not made the decision and am still holding out hope that UCONN gives me some more $). I will update the thread if either Cardozo and/or UCONN gives me more money.

I have some other questions. Also according to Richmond I'm on their "priority waitlist" which apparently means my acceptance is very likely they just had to many qualified applicants. If anyone has any experience with this, is there a difference between the priority waitlist and the regular one in regards to receiving scholly money or would I be paying sticker? Also is there a chance W+L gives me money if I get in off the waitlist(I know it's probably no, but I'm asking just in case)

I would like to chime in also as someone who has worked in politics.

JD's do not help at all, really whatsoever. This is doubly true when it comes to running for office - what matters there is far more what connection you with party officials and donors than anything else. Most campaign workers, and most office workers do not have JD's.

There are certain, specific positions where a JD may be more beneficial, like think tank positions that actually deal with law and therefore would need input from lawyers, but otherwise no, I would say you don't even really need a Bachelor's since I've seen people promoted without them.

Most Congress members have JD's because:

1) Being a lawyer and having an interest politics correlate, so many of these people want to be politicians. When you go to engineering school, you are more likely to want to do engineering, than politics (Especially since the pay is trash by comparison).
2) Being a BigLaw lawyer or Fed Clerk or Big Gov worker etc. puts in contact with lots of important people who do important things, and can given you a heft sum of spare change, which you need to survive on while campaigning (since you will be jobless, there's a reason most politicians nowadays are millionaires). There is nothing about this specifically unique to law, a successful business or I suppose science career could do the same.

Don't go to law school to be a politician. Even if you did, I hope you know the JD advantage I mentioned is basically T14 or bust.

[Johann]

UConn is fine. Just go wherever you will have a good experience and be motivated to get the best grades. The decision between all of these schools is meaningless - that is, your outcome is 100% what you MAKE of it

[cavalier1138]

UConn is fine. Just go wherever you will have a good experience and be motivated to get the best grades. The decision between all of these schools is meaningless - that is, your outcome is 100% what you MAKE of it

I guess that half of the class at Widener must not be motivated or trying very hard at all.

[mjb447]

UConn is fine. Just go wherever you will have a good experience and be motivated to get the best grades. The decision between all of these schools is meaningless - that is, your outcome is 100% what you MAKE of it

I guess that half of the class at Widener must not be motivated or trying very hard at all.

u gotta BELIEVE in urself tho

[lymenheimer]

UConn is fine. Just go wherever you will have a good experience and be motivated to get the best grades. The decision between all of these schools is meaningless - that is, your outcome is 100% what you MAKE of it

I guess that half of the class at Widener must not be motivated or trying very hard at all.

u gotta BELIEVE in urself tho

Its because they went to a school that distracted them so they couldnt focus as well as the other kids.

[UVA2B]

UConn is fine. Just go wherever you will have a good experience and be motivated to get the best grades. The decision between all of these schools is meaningless - that is, your outcome is 100% what you MAKE of it

I guess that half of the class at Widener must not be motivated or trying very hard at all.

u gotta BELIEVE in urself tho

Its because they went to a school that distracted them so they couldnt focus as well as the other kids.

I mean, there is a shopping mall, like RIGHT there.

[mjb447]

UConn is fine. Just go wherever you will have a good experience and be motivated to get the best grades. The decision between all of these schools is meaningless - that is, your outcome is 100% what you MAKE of it

I guess that half of the class at Widener must not be motivated or trying very hard at all.

u gotta BELIEVE in urself tho

Its because they went to a school that distracted them so they couldnt focus as well as the other kids.

I mean, there is a shopping mall, like RIGHT there.

[Ferrisjso]

Okay no need to be trolling now. Im going to see Widener myself on April 1st(oh no, itll be april fools) so im going to be able to see this famous mall for myself!

[Rigo]

I don't see any reason to choose Widener over a full ride at Quinnipiac, especially as one of the only 20-something people on the planet who loves Connecticut.

[uion1715]

Just two things, Ferris (and here goes nothing):

Widener has the 10th highest attrition rate in the country. 30.5 percent of the 1L left the school. Take this post for instance (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... hp?t=10076):

I'm in my 3rd semester at WUSL-DE. Grade deflation is the biggest issue. Small 4th tier schools are plagued by grade deflation. We work harder for the same grades as higher ranked schools because the curve is so low. The curve for 1L's is something like a 2.3-2.69, which is insane. My friends at Temple Law had a 1L curve of 2.7-2.9 and over a 3.0 for 2L and 3L. Widener NEVER gets above a 3.0 curve.

Grade deflation is one of the tools WUSL uses to slash the 1L class by 1/3 for the 2L year. If you make that cut chances are you'll graduate. Widener's party line on the intentional cut is they give people a chance to prove themselves that other schools turn away. Ok. But it's also a fact that those 1/3 ( about 100 ppl) spend about $55,000, minimum, for that wasted year. Money that is typically borrowed and needs to be paid back starting almost immediately upon withdrawal from school. Seems like a cash-cow to me.

So, if WUSL is the only law school you get into beware. You have a 1/3 chance of getting the boot.

Widener was also sued in 2016 for misrepresenting its career statistics:

http://blogs.findlaw.com/greedy_associa ... nding.html

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/new ... /88904918/

It's not just that less than 50 percent of the students at Widener can find a job. It's also that if you account for the school's attrition and the bar passage rate, a very good chunk of the students at Widener can't get a bar license to begin with.

EDIT: Let me phrase it this way - You have a greater chance of failing out of Widener than getting a decent job.

Again, a 0L here, and do what you want with UConn, etc. but Widener cannot be your option.

[Ferrisjso]

I don't see any reason to choose Widener over a full ride at Quinnipiac, especially as one of the only 20-something people on the planet who loves Connecticut.

Because the full ride(which is 2k short of a full ride right now) is conditional(top 50%) even if I get the National Fellows the stip is top 75%. I'm honestly curious why Connecticut seems to get such a bad rap on here? Widener's scholly is unconditional, it also will allow me to dorm on campus so I don't have to learn how to drive!