Is BC underrated as a biglaw school?

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circle.the.wagons

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Is BC underrated as a biglaw school?

Postby circle.the.wagons » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:34 am

I've been spending a lot of time in the BC 2020 thread so I just want to get some outside opinions. Everyone knows BC has great job numbers especially for a non t14, but I've seen a lot of people say they don't think BC is worth X amount of money, but some other school with higher big law placement is.

According to LST, 40% of grads go to big law which is pretty good but not amazing. But if you dig deeper into the numbers, you'll see a lot of their grads go into business, govt, PI, and state/local clerk ships. I assume (perhaps wrongly) the vast majority of people who did not go into firms did so by choice. 125 grads went into law firms, and of those, 94 went into firms of 100+ attorneys. that's about 75%. This is supported by the fact that the 50th percentile salary for grads in firms is $160k. So what's up with the impression of BC as good-but-not-great-biglaw-placement school?

Thanks

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lymenheimer

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Re: Is BC underrated as a biglaw school?

Postby lymenheimer » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:40 am

If it is self-selection as you assume, why can't the rest get biglaw jobs? If that is also self-selection, then it is very omniscient how the school selects around the same percentage of individuals each year who desire to work in each field.

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circle.the.wagons

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Re: Is BC underrated as a biglaw school?

Postby circle.the.wagons » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:47 am

lymenheimer wrote:If it is self-selection as you assume, why can't the rest get biglaw jobs? If that is also self-selection, then it is very omniscient how the school selects around the same percentage of individuals each year who desire to work in each field.

Maybe not everyone wants a big law job- a lot of people don't. To be honest, I have no interest in work outside of firms or in house counsel so I can't really relate to that or have any knowledge in that career trajectory, but there are a lot of people who like that.

I'm not saying everyone who wants a big law job is going to get one, that's crazy, but 75% sounds impressive to me.

I'm also on my phone so it's hard to compare years so i can't respond to that comment

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UVA2B

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Re: Is BC underrated as a biglaw school?

Postby UVA2B » Fri Mar 03, 2017 9:57 am

I think you likely answered your own question here. BC has placement in BigLaw pretty much consistent with its peers (UCLA, Vandy, etc.). So I guess it depends how you define "underrated." Maybe I'm unique, but I think BC is worth about the same amount as those peers with similar placement power. Others might occasionally get caught up in meaningless ranking distinctions like saying Vandy is worth $50k more than a place like BC, but those people are likely just being foolish if they just want BigLaw generally. If they have goals of BigLaw in Atlanta or something more specific, then it is worth more than BC, but someone wanting Boston BigLaw would be equally foolish to pick Vandy over BC, even at equal cost.

BC is a solid option if you can control for costs. BC at sticker is a categorically bad idea if BigLaw is your goal. BC with a good scholarship and other ways to keep costs under control (to me, that would mean less than $100k total debt at repayment, and ideally a lot less than that) makes perfect sense when choosing between that and something like GULC at sticker or Vandy for $175k (or something like that).

Cost-benefit doesn't change based on irrational brand distinctions people make. If you want BigLaw, you're paying BC for a ~40% chance of getting what you want. How much is that worth to you, and are you willing to accept the fallback options available there (small firm, government, etc.) that pay significantly less if BigLaw doesn't work out (statistically likely considering you have no idea how you'll perform during 1L)? Answer that question honestly and prudently, and you'll know whether you have BC "properly rated."

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Is BC underrated as a biglaw school?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:01 am

The problem with self-selection is that there's no way to measure it. I do think you get some self-selection - for instance, I'm pretty sure more Yalies could do biglaw than choose to, and can also buy that some (not all) of Georgetown's numbers are self-selection into non biglaw. It would just be way too convenient for self-selection to cluster in lower-ranked schools.

I'm not saying BC is a bad school, but the only measure we have of its biglaw placement is how many grads go into biglaw. You can decide more people would be able to go into biglaw than choose to, but realize you're just making that up out of whole cloth. There's no evidence at all that more people at BC self-select out of biglaw than at any other school, so the numbers still work for comparison purposes.

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lymenheimer

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Re: Is BC underrated as a biglaw school?

Postby lymenheimer » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:28 am

circle.the.wagons wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:If it is self-selection as you assume, why can't the rest get biglaw jobs? If that is also self-selection, then it is very omniscient how the school selects around the same percentage of individuals each year who desire to work in each field.

Maybe not everyone wants a big law job- a lot of people don't. To be honest, I have no interest in work outside of firms or in house counsel so I can't really relate to that or have any knowledge in that career trajectory, but there are a lot of people who like that.

I'm not saying everyone who wants a big law job is going to get one, that's crazy, but 75% sounds impressive to me.

I'm also on my phone so it's hard to compare years so i can't respond to that comment

Maybe I wasn't clear. I was taking into account the fact that some people don't want biglaw, by assuming that as self-selection. I was trying to intuit that if we assume everything is self-selection, the similar numbers year over year, for a number of schools is interesting when half of the people who matriculate likely have no idea what they want to do going in.

On another angle, how are you accounting for the people who do want buglaw but are working gov/pi because they have no other options?

Also, pretty much what UVA said. It's not a bad school for biglaw. But it's not T13 level percentages, so it shouldn't be worth T13 level debt. But it also doesn't have it's own market to feed like, say UT. It's fighting with Harvard/BU.

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Re: Is BC underrated as a biglaw school?

Postby Yankees1313 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:11 pm

NLJ 2017 law rankings for Big Law have BC at 17. Just saw this today.

theboringest

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Re: Is BC underrated as a biglaw school?

Postby theboringest » Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:16 pm

BC isn't underrated. Most people seem to understand that BC gives you a roughly 1/3 chance (maybe more depending on year to year fluctuations) of getting biglaw or biglaw equivalent. But you should only go if you're ok with Boston and don't have too much debt.

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Re: Is BC underrated as a biglaw school?

Postby celticsfan » Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:04 pm

Yankees1313 wrote:NLJ 2017 law rankings for Big Law have BC at 17. Just saw this today.


Piggybacking off of this:

In 2015, 57 out of 247 graduates were employed by firms with more than 500 attorneys (23.08%)

According to the new NLJ rankings, 25.11% of BC grads in 2016 landed one of these positions, up 2%

So if we call Biglaw firms that employ 100+ (same starting salary as the ones who employ 500+) we see that barring a decrease in hiring of BC grads in firms between 100-500, overall Biglaw employment is up from 38% to at least 40.

Now it's tough to really analyze this without seeing the data about firms in the 100-500 range, but unless that decreased, it looks like BigLaw odds are continually improving from BC.

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Re: Is BC underrated as a biglaw school?

Postby favabeansoup » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:18 pm

UVA2B wrote:BC is a solid option if you can control for costs. BC at sticker is a categorically bad idea if BigLaw is your goal. BC with a good scholarship and other ways to keep costs under control (to me, that would mean less than $100k total debt at repayment, and ideally a lot less than that) makes perfect sense when choosing between that and something like GULC at sticker or Vandy for $175k (or something like that).



^^^
All that needs to be said here. BC is only "underrated" on USNWR rankings. ATL and NLJ both rank it higher. It's a fine school as long as costs are relative to expected employment outcomes.



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