Facing a conundrum - thoughts/advice appreciated

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howaboutthat

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Re: Facing a conundrum - thoughts/advice appreciated

Postby howaboutthat » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:35 am

Default answer is Michigan -- hard to go wrong there, except both you and your SO strongly want you to attend HLS. Assuming you most of all wish to stay married, and notwithstanding your fervent Harvard desire, the fact that your spouse strongly wants you to attend HLS (if I read that correctly) might be the most complicating factor. The HLS as golden icon thinking does make me wonder, however, why you are still considering Yale or Stanford. Is this really just a HYS versus other elite law schools issue?

The first year is intense in both law school and medical school, so, in general, I would not recommend living apart unless you confidently feel that FaceTime or Skype (and lots of texting) each evening is sufficient (and it might be). That said, a bit of space (so each of you can do your primal screaming separately), while staying in touch as frequently as you please actually might be preferable to taking your respective stresses out on each other? I would caution that your schedules likely would preclude traveling back and forth particularly often.

Otherwise, perhaps consider one of the following: (1) moving together to Boston with you matriculating at Harvard and your SO reapplying to the Boston-area schools along with Dartmouth, Brown, and Yale. Then, starting that next year, you will at least be considerably closer to each other assuming she gains admission somewhere.

(2) same as (1), but broaden the medical school reapplication field and plan to spend your last law school year at another top tier school close to where your SO ends up, particularly if she can start two years out. If your wife can defer her current admission to Michigan for a year or two right now, then maybe that is your answer.

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floatie

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Re: Facing a conundrum - thoughts/advice appreciated

Postby floatie » Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:45 am

howaboutthat wrote:Otherwise, perhaps consider one of the following: (1) moving together to Boston with you matriculating at Harvard and your SO reapplying to the Boston-area schools along with Dartmouth, Brown, and Yale. Then, starting that next year, you will at least be considerably closer to each other assuming she gains admission somewhere.


No. Medical school admissions differs highly from law school admissions in that medical schools will SEVERELY penalize you (read: auto-deny) if you have gained admission to a medical school in a previous cycle and declined to attend. There are multiple anecdotes of students who turned down an acceptance at a low-tier medical school to try again the next cycle, only to be immediately denied at every single allopathic and osteopathic medical school in the country and forcing them to go overseas.

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zot1

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Re: Facing a conundrum - thoughts/advice appreciated

Postby zot1 » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:00 am

From my limited understanding in the matter, medical school admission is a lot harder than law school admissions. I'm not you, but I would never ask my SO to decline that.

Here's what I'll say that I think hasn't been mentioned. Both you and your spouse will be significantly busy during the next few years. So while it's possible you could be apart if you go to Harvard, maybe the distance may be more manageable given how busy you will both be. Plus you could look for summer positions near your SO (I have no clue how available those are) and then you could spend summers together too. The caveat is of course that not everyone is meant for this.

My wife was in grad school when I went to law school. We decided to live apart with the wife returning back on weekends (we were in the same state but thought one of us commuting could be bad for school because of the time wasted). Before the first semester of this arrangement was up, we ditched the whole thing entirely. So quite clearly, if we had been states apart, it would have been terrible for us. So I recognize it's easy to sit back here and say, follow your dreams! But a great relationship isn't worth jeopardizing because of prestige. Im sure Michigan is a great place to go to. And maybe you'll run into Jimmy H. some time.

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BlendedUnicorn

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Re: Facing a conundrum - thoughts/advice appreciated

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:52 am

anonymous user 100 wrote:
HuntedUnicorn wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Nah it's a no brainer when you're talking a fully at Mich vs Harvard sticker


I don't think the top dean's is a full ride? Not that it matters- a six figure discount at Mich is definitely a better deal than H at sticker even before the SO comes into the picture.


It's not full, but it's very close and I would be coming out at the end with no debt (when including summer internships).


Cool cool. Like I said, this is about as easy as it gets. Big NoDebt from a school like Mich>>>>> BigPreftige.

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Lincoln

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Re: Facing a conundrum - thoughts/advice appreciated

Postby Lincoln » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:58 am

I would take Michigan without blinking, even without the spousal situation.

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BoyJord

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Re: Facing a conundrum - thoughts/advice appreciated

Postby BoyJord » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:40 pm

FWIW I am also deciding on schools with SO. Part of the Michigan situation that scares me is the limited career options for non-university affiliated people. If my SO had a grad/professional school offer at the same law school as me that would be ideal. I think you have been dealt an outstanding opportunity with your SO at Michigan Med and you at Mich. Law.

You two are going to be an insane power couple and will have terrific lives graduating from Michigan ... thats before you consider your limited/non-existent debt.

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airwrecka

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Re: Facing a conundrum - thoughts/advice appreciated

Postby airwrecka » Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:57 pm

AJordan wrote:I actually thought a good amount about this. I think there's something to be said about the collective stress a household with a doctor and a lawyer together may possess. Your choice to attend UM on a full ride is going to not only save tuition but also save an additional rent and trans costs. This could help significantly in your home in the future if/when one of you feels super stressed by the pressures of your collective professions. As a married guy with a working spouse I understand that oftentimes one has to give up a career to support the other. My wife did it for me and it's probably the reason our marriage is so good as our time together is invaluable for the investment of marriage. If you're both charging forward into your careers it's going to be incredibly important to maintain that focus on each other. Outside of drug/alcohol abuse distance and debt seem to be the two biggest killers to a marriage. You're doing your best to avoid them and you and your SO will likely reap the benefits.

So, in the end I think UM/UM is the best option. HLS + BC/BU med would be next best. Splitting up for school + debt is a very distant third.


Yes yes yes

Also married, and I 100% agree with this. Granted, you know your own relationship better than we do, OP, but I have actually done long-distance with my husband for 6 months (before we were married, which you would think would have made it easier than if we did it now) and it was one of the most stressful, difficult things I've ever had to do. I would never wish that upon another couple's relationship.

anonymous user 100

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Re: Facing a conundrum - thoughts/advice appreciated

Postby anonymous user 100 » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:05 pm

Thanks everyone for all the thoughts. I've narrowed down to two options:

A) Both start at Michigan in 2017 - aim for DC BigLaw and Residency after graduation.

B) I start at HLS in 2017 (spouse defers for 2 years), live "apart" during my 3L their M1. I would aim for Detroit BigLaw internships and associate positions until Med School is finished, then move into DC area.

Since Option A is pretty clear, I would appreciate any thoughts on Option B, particularly as it pertains to getting BigLaw in Detroit out of HLS, then being able to lateral into DC after 2 or 3 years.

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floatie

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Re: Facing a conundrum - thoughts/advice appreciated

Postby floatie » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:17 pm

anonymous user 100 wrote:Thanks everyone for all the thoughts. I've narrowed down to two options:

A) Both start at Michigan in 2017 - aim for DC BigLaw and Residency after graduation.

B) I start at HLS in 2017 (spouse defers for 2 years), live "apart" during my 3L their M1. I would aim for Detroit BigLaw internships and associate positions until Med School is finished, then move into DC area.

Since Option A is pretty clear, I would appreciate any thoughts on Option B, particularly as it pertains to getting BigLaw in Detroit out of HLS, then being able to lateral into DC after 2 or 3 years.


I would 10000% recommend option A. First off, if your spouse defers for 2 years (assuming that the deferral is granted, which it might not be - it's harder in med school unless you do something like TFA) what will your spouse do during that time? That's also an extra 2 years that they're pushing their career back - don't forget that for doctors your career doesn't *really* start until after residency.

I would not aim for BigLaw in Detroit with the intention of lateral-ing into DC. DC is already a tough market to crack, and I'm guessing for a lot of firms that you'd want to work at, Detroit would be a satellite office, making it that much more difficult to lateral out. And at what point are you going to try and lateral out? If your spouse gets a residency in DC (if my math adds up, that would be within the first 2 years of your being an associate) but you're unable to lateral out of Detroit specifically into DC, then what will you do? At that point in time you guys could be stuck apart for years.

Plus...do you really want to live in Detroit?

Unless you both are willing and able to live apart for 3-4 years, in your situation it's going to be brutal for one or both of your careers trying to make HLS work. Earlier in the thread you talked about the "dream" and the prestige of HLS, but it's really, really, not worth it in this instance.
Last edited by floatie on Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BlendedUnicorn

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Re: Facing a conundrum - thoughts/advice appreciated

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:18 pm

Yeah option b sucks and is not remotely realistic.

blueapple

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Re: Facing a conundrum - thoughts/advice appreciated

Postby blueapple » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:22 pm

anonymous user 100 wrote:Thanks everyone for all the thoughts. I've narrowed down to two options:

A) Both start at Michigan in 2017 - aim for DC BigLaw and Residency after graduation.

B) I start at HLS in 2017 (spouse defers for 2 years), live "apart" during my 3L their M1. I would aim for Detroit BigLaw internships and associate positions until Med School is finished, then move into DC area.

Since Option A is pretty clear, I would appreciate any thoughts on Option B, particularly as it pertains to getting BigLaw in Detroit out of HLS, then being able to lateral into DC after 2 or 3 years.


My concern with Option B would be your ability to spin a story that makes it sound like you want to live/stay in Detroit. They'll wonder why you went to HLS instead of Michigan if you want to live in Michigan and will suspect you're not sticking around Detroit for the long haul (unless either you or your spouse has ties to Michigan that I missed). Especially because when you're interviewing for SA jobs your spouse won't even be living in Michigan yet. I'm just worried this will be riskier than you might think. I don't have any data for any of this though -- this is just my instinct as someone who went to MLaw and knows Detroit/Michigan pretty well. Hopefully someone in Detroit biglaw can chime in with how many non-Michigan natives who don't go to a law school in Michigan were in their summer class.

I'm not sure how easy it is to move from Detroit biglaw to DC biglaw after 2-3 years so I won't comment on that.

Also, it seems silly for your spouse to put off med school for 2 years, especially because in Option B you're taking out a lot of loans that you wouldn't be taking out otherwise. In Option A, your spouse is making a doctor's salary 2 years earlier than in Option B AND you'll have far fewer loans to pay off.

I just think Option A sounds much simpler and makes a lot more sense in every way -- IMO Option B is not worth the prestige of going to H.
Last edited by blueapple on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Facing a conundrum - thoughts/advice appreciated

Postby BigZuck » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:43 pm

BigZuck wrote:Well unless you've figured out a way to eat prestige I guess. Then maybe it's a tougher choice.

Sounds like maybe you figured out a way to eat prestige?

Going through all these gymnastics because of some intangible, probably never to be realized benefit of going to Harvard over Michigan just doesn't make sense to me. When you're billing hour 14 at 11 PM on a Sunday night at generic Insert Random Last Names Biglaw LLP I don't think you're going to be like "Man, so glad I went to Harvard instead of Michigan!" You're not going to care, no one else is going to care. But the toll of the extra debt and spousal-related stress because you made that choice could become overwhelming.

Just considering the debt alone, Michigan is a no brainy no brainer. Factor in all the spouse stuff? Damn, I hope that prestige tastes real good going down!



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