Fordham v Cardozo?

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nmurphy8

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Fordham v Cardozo?

Postby nmurphy8 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:00 pm

I am down to deciding between these two schools and need some advice. My options are:
- Fordham - with a 25K a year scholarship, stay in "good standing" stipulation
- Cardozo - with a 52K a year scholarship, no stipulation
I know that Fordham is at a much higher standing than Cardozo and I love the school, but is it really worth the extra money to attend? Overall it would be an extra 80k for me to attend Fordham over Cardozo.
Another factor is that I would be in the May program at Cardozo, meaning that they spread out 1L over three semesters (summer, fall, and spring) to make the workload and transition to law school easier, so I would probably have better grades that way and have more time to get involved with resume building extracurriculars.
I will be living at home no matter which school I choose. I don't know for sure what my career goals are, I know I would probably like to be in a law firm but not necessarily "Big Law" since I know that's hard to break into. I don't want to go into public interest. I'm possibly interested in intellectual property, real estate law, or entertainment law but I don't want to limit my career options too much yet. I also pretty much only want to practice in New York City.
Please let me know what my best option is!
Last edited by nmurphy8 on Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

cavalier1138

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Re: Fordham v Cardozo?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:36 pm

If you want law firm work, but not biglaw, then go to Cardozo. Given your likely salary after school, you wouldn't be in a good position to pay off your loans for Fordham.

That said, don't think that Cardozo's summer start means you'll get better grades. Your 1L year is on a forced curve, so your grades are relative to all the other students in your class, who are in the exact same position as you.

nmurphy8

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Re: Fordham v Cardozo?

Postby nmurphy8 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:53 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:If you want law firm work, but not biglaw, then go to Cardozo. Given your likely salary after school, you wouldn't be in a good position to pay off your loans for Fordham.

That said, don't think that Cardozo's summer start means you'll get better grades. Your 1L year is on a forced curve, so your grades are relative to all the other students in your class, who are in the exact same position as you.


I don't want to close off my chances at biglaw completely, it's just that I don't have a biglaw or bust mindset. But is Fordham's chances at big law so much greater than Cardozo's that it's worth it? And are the students from Fordham who don't get into biglaw still in a better position than those coming from Cardozo? Or is Fordham only worth the extra money if you go into biglaw?
Also, in terms of Cardozo's summer program, not all Cardozo students start in the summer, so I think even with the curve I may still have an advantage over other Cardozo students, the majority of whom are taking 1L in two traditional semesters. So many of Cardozo students in my class are not actually all in the same position as me since I will have more time to study with the classes being spread out.

cavalier1138

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Re: Fordham v Cardozo?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:00 pm

nmurphy8 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:If you want law firm work, but not biglaw, then go to Cardozo. Given your likely salary after school, you wouldn't be in a good position to pay off your loans for Fordham.

That said, don't think that Cardozo's summer start means you'll get better grades. Your 1L year is on a forced curve, so your grades are relative to all the other students in your class, who are in the exact same position as you.


I don't want to close off my chances at biglaw completely, it's just that I don't have a biglaw or bust mindset. But is Fordham's chances at big law so much greater than Cardozo's that it's worth it? And are the students from Fordham who don't get into biglaw still in a better position than those coming from Cardozo? Or is Fordham only worth the extra money if you go into biglaw?
Also, in terms of Cardozo's summer program, not all Cardozo students start in the summer, so I think even with the curve I may still have an advantage over other Cardozo students, the majority of whom are taking 1L in two traditional semesters. So many of Cardozo students in my class are not actually all in the same position as me since I will have more time to study with the classes being spread out.


I mean, neither school gives you a very good chance at biglaw, but Fordham gives you a better shot than Cardozo. Which is like saying that you have a better chance at winning money playing craps than playing roulette (disclaimer: I have no idea which game actually has better odds). It might technically be true, but it's a stupid bet.

Your increased chance at biglaw from Fordham is not worth almost $100k (which is what it will end up being with origination fees). Pay scales are the same across the same tier of legal job. If you aren't working at a big firm, you're going to get paid $45-60k, regardless of where you got your degree. So I'd still go where there's less debt.

Also, I'd really look into your assumptions about Cardozo's curve. I highly doubt they deliberately give some students an advantage with grading. I'm not saying the summer program is a bad idea, but it's dumb to assume you'll benefit from it in the form of higher grades.

Legallylawyer2020

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Re: Fordham v Cardozo?

Postby Legallylawyer2020 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:22 pm

I continually am amused by people that think Fordham doesn't afford a greater opportunity for Big Law then other NYC schools (besides Columbia and NYU obviously) do. If you look at Vault rankings for the best feeder schools into Big Law, Fordham is in the top 10.

That said, I would take the bigger scholarship at Cardozo.

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.

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Re: Fordham v Cardozo?

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:34 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
nmurphy8 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:If you want law firm work, but not biglaw, then go to Cardozo. Given your likely salary after school, you wouldn't be in a good position to pay off your loans for Fordham.

That said, don't think that Cardozo's summer start means you'll get better grades. Your 1L year is on a forced curve, so your grades are relative to all the other students in your class, who are in the exact same position as you.


I don't want to close off my chances at biglaw completely, it's just that I don't have a biglaw or bust mindset. But is Fordham's chances at big law so much greater than Cardozo's that it's worth it? And are the students from Fordham who don't get into biglaw still in a better position than those coming from Cardozo? Or is Fordham only worth the extra money if you go into biglaw?
Also, in terms of Cardozo's summer program, not all Cardozo students start in the summer, so I think even with the curve I may still have an advantage over other Cardozo students, the majority of whom are taking 1L in two traditional semesters. So many of Cardozo students in my class are not actually all in the same position as me since I will have more time to study with the classes being spread out.


I mean, neither school gives you a very good chance at biglaw, but Fordham gives you a better shot than Cardozo. Which is like saying that you have a better chance at winning money playing craps than playing roulette (disclaimer: I have no idea which game actually has better odds). It might technically be true, but it's a stupid bet.

Your increased chance at biglaw from Fordham is not worth almost $100k (which is what it will end up being with origination fees). Pay scales are the same across the same tier of legal job. If you aren't working at a big firm, you're going to get paid $45-60k, regardless of where you got your degree. So I'd still go where there's less debt.

Also, I'd really look into your assumptions about Cardozo's curve. I highly doubt they deliberately give some students an advantage with grading. I'm not saying the summer program is a bad idea, but it's dumb to assume you'll benefit from it in the form of higher grades.


I think you're being a little harsh on Fordham, it's not a total crapshoot to get NYC Biglaw from there as you seem to imply. It places 22% of its class into BL compared to GULC's ~30%. Dozo is like 12%.

cavalier1138

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Re: Fordham v Cardozo?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:37 pm

Legallylawyer2020 wrote:I continually am amused by people that think Fordham doesn't afford a greater opportunity for Big Law then other NYC schools (besides Columbia and NYU obviously) do. If you look at Vault rankings for the best feeder schools into Big Law, Fordham is in the top 10.


Considering how few feeder schools there are for biglaw, that's not really surprising. And the survey you're referring to was voluntary, covering biglaw lawyers of all ages, which means that it's useless for current employment statistics. That survey ranked GW over Northwestern for biglaw placement, and anyone who actually chooses GW over Northwestern because of that would deserve all the disappointment that results from such a monumentally stupid decision.

Anyway, your ultimate conclusion was correct: the placement chances at both schools are not worth betting any significant money on.

Thomas Hagan, ESQ. wrote:I think you're being a little harsh on Fordham, it's not a total crapshoot to get NYC Biglaw from there as you seem to imply. It places 22% of its class into BL compared to GULC's ~30%. Dozo is like 12%.


I also wouldn't spend that much on GULC if I wanted biglaw. I'm not saying Fordham isn't a fine school. I'm saying it's not worth $80k+ extra for less than a one in four chance at getting a biglaw job.

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Ferrisjso

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Re: Fordham v Cardozo?

Postby Ferrisjso » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:38 pm

Fordham's better but not 27k a year better. Probably about 10k better.



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