Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

What's my best option?

Harvard
16
13%
Columbia (Butler)
6
5%
NYU (Vanderbilt)
13
10%
Chicago (Rubenstein)
93
73%
 
Total votes: 128

shadowfax

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby shadowfax » Wed Feb 22, 2017 8:45 pm

Certainly not trolling. Turned down a Hammy and a Ruby to go to one of HSY. Don"t regret it for a nanosecond. Not a one size fits all world. No real wrong answers in this type of scenario. Just informed/or not opinions. Didn't apply to NYU so I really should not comment on it I guess.

cavalier1138

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:28 pm

shadowfax wrote:Certainly not trolling. Turned down a Hammy and a Ruby to go to one of HSY. Don"t regret it for a nanosecond. Not a one size fits all world. No real wrong answers in this type of scenario. Just informed/or not opinions. Didn't apply to NYU so I really should not comment on it I guess.


Well, I'm glad you don't regret it. But framing your decision as "correct" and the decision to not take on a stupid amount of debt for no return as "easy" is ridiculous.

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RSN

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby RSN » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:59 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
shadowfax wrote:Certainly not trolling. Turned down a Hammy and a Ruby to go to one of HSY. Don"t regret it for a nanosecond. Not a one size fits all world. No real wrong answers in this type of scenario. Just informed/or not opinions. Didn't apply to NYU so I really should not comment on it I guess.


Well, I'm glad you don't regret it. But framing your decision as "correct" and the decision to not take on a stupid amount of debt for no return as "easy" is ridiculous.


Concur with the response here; you're entitled to believe you made the right decision for you, but that's all. I'm willing to bet you're also not paying your tuition, but the point stands even if you took out loans for everything. Turning down a T6 full ride for H at sticker is in most cases a poor call. It's more complicated with Y, but not with H, especially if you're primarily interested in Biglaw.

OP: Go to NYU. You might regret turning down H a little at first, but that'll fade quickly when you remember you're graduating from one of the top law schools in the country and not paying down $200k of debt for the next decade plus.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:21 am

bwaldorf wrote:you want a unicorn job only obtainable from Harvard,


No such thing exists. OP should go with NYU.

shadowfax

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby shadowfax » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:51 am

Everyone has an opinion but NYU agrees with me. They are so sure that there are better law schools that they will pay you not to attend them. Columbia is offering an equalization incentive. In their minds just enough to make them the best choice for the OP. HSY are confident they are worth what they cost. I agree with them. If you think law schools offer incentives based on some humanitarian formula then would you be interested in taking the money you will be saving by attendig NYU and buying that really attractive bridge I own that connects Manhattan with Brooklyn?

cavalier1138

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:54 am

shadowfax wrote:Everyone has an opinion but NYU agrees with me. They are so sure that there are better law schools that they will pay you not to attend them. Columbia is offering an equalization incentive. In their minds just enough to make them the best choice for the OP. HSY are confident they are worth what they cost. I agree with them. If you think law schools offer incentives based on some humanitarian formula then would you be interested in taking the money you will be saving by attendig NYU and buying that really attractive bridge I own that connects Manhattan with Brooklyn?


Please explain what NYC biglaw opportunities are available from Harvard that aren't from NYU. I'd like specifics on this, because right now you just sound like someone who would rather live in a cardboard box and say you have a Harvard degree than become president and admit that you went to a non-Ivy.

shadowfax

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby shadowfax » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:16 am

I wish to clarify my humanitarian comment. It does not apply to HSY. They do in fact offer the best kind of assistance. Need based.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:53 am

shadowfax wrote:Everyone has an opinion but NYU agrees with me. They are so sure that there are better law schools that they will pay you not to attend them. Columbia is offering an equalization incentive. In their minds just enough to make them the best choice for the OP. HSY are confident they are worth what they cost. I agree with them. If you think law schools offer incentives based on some humanitarian formula then would you be interested in taking the money you will be saving by attendig NYU and buying that really attractive bridge I own that connects Manhattan with Brooklyn?

This is a really silly argument. Better for what specific goal? Worth sticker debt (or even the amount of loans max need-based aid requires) better? These things matter. Value isn't determined in a vacuum.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby Npret » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:14 am

shadowfax wrote:Certainly not trolling. Turned down a Hammy and a Ruby to go to one of HSY. Don"t regret it for a nanosecond. Not a one size fits all world. No real wrong answers in this type of scenario. Just informed/or not opinions. Didn't apply to NYU so I really should not comment on it I guess.

How much need based aid did you get?
Are you still in school?
Where will you be working at graduation or where do you work?
How much do you owe in loans?
How much have you repaid already? Or maybe what was (or will be) your debt at repayment?

Npret

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby Npret » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:19 am

LetsGoMets wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
shadowfax wrote:Certainly not trolling. Turned down a Hammy and a Ruby to go to one of HSY. Don"t regret it for a nanosecond. Not a one size fits all world. No real wrong answers in this type of scenario. Just informed/or not opinions. Didn't apply to NYU so I really should not comment on it I guess.


Well, I'm glad you don't regret it. But framing your decision as "correct" and the decision to not take on a stupid amount of debt for no return as "easy" is ridiculous.


Concur with the response here; you're entitled to believe you made the right decision for you, but that's all. I'm willing to bet you're also not paying your tuition, but the point stands even if you took out loans for everything. Turning down a T6 full ride for H at sticker is in most cases a poor call. It's more complicated with Y, but not with H, especially if you're primarily interested in Biglaw.

OP: Go to NYU. You might regret turning down H a little at first, but that'll fade quickly when you remember you're graduating from one of the top law schools in the country and not paying down $200k of debt for the next decade plus.

I graduated with no debt and bought a weekend house upstate with my money among other things. No one really appreciates that when you don't have debt you have money you can save, invest, etc.
I wouldn't have gone to Harvard anyway though because I lived at home in the city to save money.

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GFox345

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby GFox345 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:23 am

shadowfax wrote:Turned down a Hammy and a Ruby to go to one of HSY.


Oh, God.... What have you prestige whores done!?

canafsa

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby canafsa » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:26 am

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Last edited by canafsa on Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Npret

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby Npret » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:31 am

canafsa wrote:I'm facing a similar choice with regards to Harvard vs. full ride t6, for which I am merely eligible and have not yet been awarded.


It's very possible I do not get the full ride, in which case I think I would take Harvard over 50% or even a 75% scholarship.

100% however makes the question much less obvious. I'm trying to discern the value of Harvard over T6, and I think that it's more than $90,000 but probably less than $186,000. Valuation is so subjective and elements other than raw income factor in, such as, like it or not, prestige.

If I choose to open a private practice, I feel confident that clients will respond better to Harvard than they would other schools. It's a marketing thing. Valuing hypotheticals, however, is tricky business.

You're just wrong. I'm telling you this based on real life experience. People know that Columbia, Chicago and NYU are at the top handful of schools in the country. Just because you personally (and other 0Ls) don't know reality doesn't make it not true.

But it's your life and your future. Enjoy repaying debt with money you could be banking. A hundred thousand dollars is a huge amount of money to earn and to repay. Just remember there will be a significant number of people who won't have debt. Their decisions will be a different calculus than yours.

canafsa

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby canafsa » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:35 am

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Last edited by canafsa on Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby kalvano » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:42 am

Jesus fucking Christ at all these 0L's trying to decide how much 6-figure debt to take on for law school. Here's a hint - none. After having had to make loan payments on 6 figures of law school debt, I can't imagine much of a scenario in which it's worth it, unless perhaps your singular goal is to be a law school professor or do some sort of other unicorn fairytale job. Otherwise, take the free or heavily discounted ride to what is still a stellar school.

20170322

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby 20170322 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:43 am

GFox345 wrote:
shadowfax wrote:Turned down a Hammy and a Ruby to go to one of HSY.


Oh, God.... What have you prestige whores done!?



To be fair, I think I'd turn down a Hammy for 2 or 3 of HYS, but not just one. 3 JD's means you have a 220% chance of biglaw.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby 20170322 » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:43 am

kalvano wrote:Jesus fucking Christ at all these 0L's trying to decide how much 6-figure debt to take on for law school. Here's a hint - none. After having had to make loan payments on 6 figures of law school debt, I can't imagine much of a scenario in which it's worth it, unless perhaps your singular goal is to be a law school professor or do some sort of other unicorn fairytale job. Otherwise, take the free or heavily discounted ride to what is still a stellar school.



Do you think it's still worth taking out COL loans?

bloomsday

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Postby bloomsday » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:44 am

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Last edited by bloomsday on Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby kalvano » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:45 am

SweetTort wrote:
kalvano wrote:Jesus fucking Christ at all these 0L's trying to decide how much 6-figure debt to take on for law school. Here's a hint - none. After having had to make loan payments on 6 figures of law school debt, I can't imagine much of a scenario in which it's worth it, unless perhaps your singular goal is to be a law school professor or do some sort of other unicorn fairytale job. Otherwise, take the free or heavily discounted ride to what is still a stellar school.



Do you think it's still worth taking out COL loans?


Not much way around that. I'm not saying don't take out loans. If you can walk away with $50,000 or $60,000 in total overall loans, that's one thing. But I'm seeing a ton of threads with 0L's debating whether or not to skip a free or heavily discounted ride to a seriously good school because they think H/Y/S is worth $180,000 or more in debt. It's not. That kind of debt is absolutely crushing. If you can go to NYU / Columbia / Chicago / UVA for free, that's basically winning the lottery.

canafsa

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby canafsa » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:47 am

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:54 am

I would value the difference between H and CCN at $50,000, maximum. YS maybe a little bit more depending on goals- call it 100,000.

Paying $100,000 more to go to one of those schools seems kind of crazy though.

bloomsday

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Postby bloomsday » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:00 pm

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Last edited by bloomsday on Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Npret

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby Npret » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:00 pm

canafsa wrote:
Npret wrote:
canafsa wrote:I'm facing a similar choice with regards to Harvard vs. full ride t6, for which I am merely eligible and have not yet been awarded.


It's very possible I do not get the full ride, in which case I think I would take Harvard over 50% or even a 75% scholarship.

100% however makes the question much less obvious. I'm trying to discern the value of Harvard over T6, and I think that it's more than $90,000 but probably less than $186,000. Valuation is so subjective and elements other than raw income factor in, such as, like it or not, prestige.

If I choose to open a private practice, I feel confident that clients will respond better to Harvard than they would other schools. It's a marketing thing. Valuing hypotheticals, however, is tricky business.

You're just wrong. I'm telling you this based on real life experience. People know that Columbia, Chicago and NYU are at the top handful of schools in the country. Just because you personally (and other 0Ls) don't know reality doesn't make it not true.

But it's your life and your future. Enjoy repaying debt with money you could be banking. A hundred thousand dollars is a huge amount of money to earn and to repay. Just remember there will be a significant number of people who won't have debt. Their decisions will be a different calculus than yours.


So what is the magic number where HYS are suddenly worth it? $50?

I don't have a number that makes Harvard worth it. This is why: I ended up at a biglaw firm doing the same work at the same salary as my Harvard colleagues. I would have had the same outcome but with debt if I went to Harvard. That is why it seems foolish to spend more to end up in the same place.

My friends who had huge loans often regretted putting themselves in such a hole. Many of them didn't even want to be in biglaw or maybe even stay in law at all. They felt law school was a mistake but they couldn't undo it because they owed so much money. I liked biglaw but most people really don't.

I also grew up on the UES of Manhattan and I'm not sure that Harvard has the same mystique there as it might have in other parts of the US.

I can't recall working with anyone or meeting anyone at work where going to Harvard gave them an edge over someone from Columbia or NYU. (Ok I worked with one partner who got a tip from a former Harvard classmate at the SEC that a client was being investigated. That's it.)

I don't know anyone who made partner because they went to Harvard instead of Columbia or another top school. Your work and your ability is what will matter in your career after you graduate.
The people who are law savants and the natural geniuses (of whom I've only known a handful) are going to shine at any school. Most people just kind of grind out their biglaw jobs without any real brilliance. Everyone is really smart- but that is from every school, not just Harvard.

I'm just trying to say that the idea that Harvard will confer some make or break difference in your life is not based on reality. All of these schools have good alumni networks; all of them will get you in the door to start making your own connections with people.

Npret

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby Npret » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:02 pm

bloomsday wrote:
HuntedUnicorn wrote:I would value the difference between H and CCN at $50,000, maximum. YS maybe a little bit more depending on goals- call it 100,000.

Paying $100,000 more to go to one of those schools seems kind of crazy though.


Same, I think I'd go for $100k or less.






But I fully acknowledge it's because I'm an elitist asshole and prestige gives me the warm fuzzies and really I just don't want all the dumb HLS guys I've dated to think that they're smarter than me.

What might you do with an extra
$100,000 plus interest instead of paying the government?
Also anyone who is that insecure will be perfect for biglaw so you've got that going for you.

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Postby bloomsday » Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:05 pm

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Last edited by bloomsday on Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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