Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

What's my best option?

Harvard
16
13%
Columbia (Butler)
6
5%
NYU (Vanderbilt)
13
10%
Chicago (Rubenstein)
93
73%
 
Total votes: 128

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UVA2B

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby UVA2B » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:22 pm

NotPanicking wrote:
canafsa wrote:I presume most people who get into Harvard have the option of a full ride at a T14, but threads such a these make it seem as though HYS is never justifiable given such a choice. Is it just sons and daughters of billionaires and deluded optimists going to Harvard, or do TLS posters overlook hidden value of having one of these schools on your resume?


THIS. I'm trying to decide between the Rubenstein (meaning I'll graduate with $45k, total) or Harvard (with financial aid, looking at around $200k). I know debt is scary and can have a significant effect on retirement, homeownership, long run stuff, but is the choice really this easy? Take the money?

I took a similar scholarship at Duke for undergrad and turned down Stanford in the process, and I definitely am not sure, even years later, that that was the right choice. :/


People do it every year, because they are significantly less debt averse and illogically think the opportunities from HYS are fundamentally different for the average student than the opportunities available at CCN for the average student. If you're insensitive to debt and it's implications for your future, so be it. People make irrational financial decisions all the time. (This is particularly true at Harvard in my opinion as the average Harvard grad will likely end up sitting side by side at Biglaw firms with CCN grads, T13 grads, sprinkling of other grads). If you're picking between HYS vs. CCN (and I'd argue T13 as well) for free, the smart decision financially is that free education. This is not to say the placement power at the schools are all the same; it's that the average graduate at all of them are ending up in substantially the same jobs. If you're dead set on ACLU impact lit or IHR in Geneva, go ahead and grab for the prestige. But if you're not dead set on a particular, difficult to get, specific type of job, the smartest money is going to that free education. You know what's better than paying off $200k debt on a growing $180k scale? Paying off $45k debt on a growing $180k salary. It'll happen significantly faster, and you'll be financially free to build some personal wealth or pursue lower paying work if you're in the portion of the Biglaw population that can't stomach it and move on.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby Po$eidon » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:23 pm

jbagelboy wrote:Rubenstein withiut a shadow of a doubt


Anything else is dumb. Yale would be the only other thing worth considering and it's not here so Rubyx100000

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby Alexandros » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:32 pm

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Last edited by Alexandros on Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:33 pm

NotPanicking wrote:I'm trying to decide between the Rubenstein (meaning I'll graduate with $45k, total) or Harvard (with financial aid, looking at around $200k). I know debt is scary and can have a significant effect on retirement, homeownership, long run stuff, but is the choice really this easy? Take the money?

I took a similar scholarship at Duke for undergrad and turned down Stanford in the process, and I definitely am not sure, even years later, that that was the right choice. :/

Holy shit take the Ruby.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby Po$eidon » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:36 pm

Alexandros wrote:
NotPanicking wrote:
canafsa wrote:I presume most people who get into Harvard have the option of a full ride at a T14, but threads such a these make it seem as though HYS is never justifiable given such a choice. Is it just sons and daughters of billionaires and deluded optimists going to Harvard, or do TLS posters overlook hidden value of having one of these schools on your resume?


THIS. I'm trying to decide between the Rubenstein (meaning I'll graduate with $45k, total) or Harvard (with financial aid, looking at around $200k). I know debt is scary and can have a significant effect on retirement, homeownership, long run stuff, but is the choice really this easy? Take the money?

I took a similar scholarship at Duke for undergrad and turned down Stanford in the process, and I definitely am not sure, even years later, that that was the right choice. :/

When it's a Hammy vs. H, the substantive argument on H's side almost always come down to clerkship placements and academia, nothing else (Not saying this is a great argument, but those are the only real "pros" on H's side).

When it's Ruby vs. H, the difference between H and Chi for these outcomes is extremely small. I really cannot think of a situation where choosing H here makes sense. This is literally the difference between #3 and #4. There is no way that difference is worth $200,000.


Yeah Uchi is specifically really good (comparatively) at the unicorn jobs that make HS different from Columbia so there's no reason to not go there. Also OP you're swimming in money and offers - withdraw from the schools you know you aren't attending (which sounds like CLS and NYU)

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby TAD » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:40 pm

Alexandros wrote:This is literally the difference between #3 and #4. There is no way that difference is worth $200,000.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby Alexandros » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:44 pm

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Last edited by Alexandros on Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby Po$eidon » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:47 pm

Alexandros wrote:
Po$eidon wrote:
Alexandros wrote:
NotPanicking wrote:
canafsa wrote:I presume most people who get into Harvard have the option of a full ride at a T14, but threads such a these make it seem as though HYS is never justifiable given such a choice. Is it just sons and daughters of billionaires and deluded optimists going to Harvard, or do TLS posters overlook hidden value of having one of these schools on your resume?


THIS. I'm trying to decide between the Rubenstein (meaning I'll graduate with $45k, total) or Harvard (with financial aid, looking at around $200k). I know debt is scary and can have a significant effect on retirement, homeownership, long run stuff, but is the choice really this easy? Take the money?

I took a similar scholarship at Duke for undergrad and turned down Stanford in the process, and I definitely am not sure, even years later, that that was the right choice. :/

When it's a Hammy vs. H, the substantive argument on H's side almost always come down to clerkship placements and academia, nothing else (Not saying this is a great argument, but those are the only real "pros" on H's side).

When it's Ruby vs. H, the difference between H and Chi for these outcomes is extremely small. I really cannot think of a situation where choosing H here makes sense. This is literally the difference between #3 and #4. There is no way that difference is worth $200,000.


Yeah Uchi is specifically really good (comparatively) at the unicorn jobs that make HS different from Columbia so there's no reason to not go there. Also OP you're swimming in money and offers - withdraw from the schools you know you aren't attending (which sounds like CLS and NYU)

For the sake of citing sources - SCOTUS - http://www.leiterrankings.com/new/2013_ ... ment.shtml Law prof -http://leiterrankings.com/new/2011_LawTeachers.shtml

If you don't care about unicorns, choosing Chi here is such common sense it's not even worth arguing.


Leiterrankings is what I meant: UChi is just amazing at clerk placement/academia above&beyond Columbia. Also no one really understands their scoring scale which I think probably mildly helps when getting jobs

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt)

Postby Npret » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:58 pm

NotPanicking wrote:
canafsa wrote:I presume most people who get into Harvard have the option of a full ride at a T14, but threads such a these make it seem as though HYS is never justifiable given such a choice. Is it just sons and daughters of billionaires and deluded optimists going to Harvard, or do TLS posters overlook hidden value of having one of these schools on your resume?


THIS. I'm trying to decide between the Rubenstein (meaning I'll graduate with $45k, total) or Harvard (with financial aid, looking at around $200k). I know debt is scary and can have a significant effect on retirement, homeownership, long run stuff, but is the choice really this easy? Take the money?

I took a similar scholarship at Duke for undergrad and turned down Stanford in the process, and I definitely am not sure, even years later, that that was the right choice. :/

0Ls think there is a hidden value to Harvard at $200,000 above Chicago for $45,000. I don't know why other than they have heard of Harvard and assume it's better. Practicing attorneys don't agree. Practicing attorneys see the Ruby as winning law school.

I've never seen any study that confirms this difference even though Harvard graduates a huge class every year so you think there might be data.

The reality is that your work matters much more than your school when choosing between grads from these schools. Employers can quickly determine how good someone is once they've seen their actual work product.
Last edited by Npret on Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:00 pm

If only Elle Woods followed Warner to CCN, we wouldn't jerk it to Harvard so much.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby Alexandros » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:05 pm

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Last edited by Alexandros on Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby Po$eidon » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:07 pm

Alexandros wrote:
Rigo wrote:If only Elle Woods followed Warner to CCN, we wouldn't jerk it to Harvard so much.

Chicago Law turning down the Legally Blonde film was the biggest mistake of its career.


I thought it was supposed to be Stanford (also a bad move)

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:07 pm

Po$eidon wrote:
Alexandros wrote:
Rigo wrote:If only Elle Woods followed Warner to CCN, we wouldn't jerk it to Harvard so much.

Chicago Law turning down the Legally Blonde film was the biggest mistake of its career.


I thought it was supposed to be Stanford (also a bad move)

Yeah it was Stanford originally but they were like lolnope.
On the flip side, great decision by Harvard.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby Alexandros » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:10 pm

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Last edited by Alexandros on Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby Po$eidon » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:11 pm

Alexandros wrote:
Po$eidon wrote:
Alexandros wrote:
Rigo wrote:If only Elle Woods followed Warner to CCN, we wouldn't jerk it to Harvard so much.

Chicago Law turning down the Legally Blonde film was the biggest mistake of its career.


I thought it was supposed to be Stanford (also a bad move)

According to a questionable-looking Huffington post article, Stanford was the first choice and Chicago was the second choice, and both turned it down.


Worst decisions ever

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:13 pm

Oh wow I didn't know about UChi either.
I wonder if the schools didn't know it'd be a huge hit and mild phenom at that time of the original location scouting.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby Alexandros » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:18 pm

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:20 pm

Alexandros wrote:
Rigo wrote:Oh wow I didn't know about UChi either.
I wonder if the schools didn't know it'd be a huge hit and mild phenom at that time of the original location scouting.

According to the same questionable-looking article, it was because of the scene where the prof makes sexual advances.

Ooo that's interesting. I am choosing to fully believe this article and will bring it up whenever appropriate.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby guynourmin » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:26 pm

Rigo wrote:
Alexandros wrote:
Rigo wrote:Oh wow I didn't know about UChi either.
I wonder if the schools didn't know it'd be a huge hit and mild phenom at that time of the original location scouting.

According to the same questionable-looking article, it was because of the scene where the prof makes sexual advances.

Ooo that's interesting. I am choosing to fully believe this article and will bring it up whenever appropriate.


If legally blonde was at S it would definitely be YS/HCCN. damn. whole world changed!

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby Po$eidon » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:29 pm

Rigo wrote:
Alexandros wrote:
Rigo wrote:Oh wow I didn't know about UChi either.
I wonder if the schools didn't know it'd be a huge hit and mild phenom at that time of the original location scouting.

According to the same questionable-looking article, it was because of the scene where the prof makes sexual advances.

Ooo that's interesting. I am choosing to fully believe this article and will bring it up whenever appropriate.


Note to OP: we're all so obviously pro-taketheRuby that we're not even discussing you anymore and are instead discussing Legally Blonde

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby Rigo » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:31 pm

guybourdin wrote:If legally blonde was at S it would definitely be YS/HCCN. damn. whole world changed!

I think this generation would def view H a bit differently prestige-wise.
It's rep has been pumped up and ingrained among laypeople (who 0Ls care way more about getting positive feedback from than they should) largely by pop culture.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby guynourmin » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:37 pm

Rigo wrote:laypeople [-] who 0Ls care way more about getting positive feedback from than they should


which is crazy because they went to, and presumably half-paid attention in, college! my dream grad program was Pittsburgh! lay prestige obsession in UG makes sense, but if you still care you're lost.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby unpetitpacifiste » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:23 pm

I know TLS people are probably all gonna choose the Ruby. But just to give you some of my personal perspective as someone who likes to think in longer terms. Once you make partner at BigLaw, the $250k debt is not gonna worth even a tenth of your yearly income. Also, in 30 years, your classmates at HLS are going to be Presidents, Senators, Congressmen, Attorney-Generals, federal judges, and SCOTUS Justices etc. You mentioned you wanted to go into Judiciary later down your career? Wouldn't you like your classmates to be the ones to conduct your confirmation hearings? Also the legal field is becoming more international as we speak. If you ever want to practice internationally, HLS's reputation will put you in a place and give you resources unmatched by any other school. Idk but I have bigger ambitions in life and I think HLS is for people who like to dream big. To be sure, your life quality immediately after law school will most likely suffer a bit because of this but you will spend all your time in corporate offices anyway so why does it matter.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby Rigo » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:33 pm

unpetitpacifiste wrote:I know TLS people are probably all gonna choose the Ruby. But just to give you some of my personal perspective as someone who likes to think in longer terms. Once you make partner at BigLaw, the $250k debt is not gonna worth even a tenth of your yearly income. Also, in 30 years, your classmates at HLS are going to be Presidents, Senators, Congressmen, Attorney-Generals, federal judges, and SCOTUS Justices etc. You mentioned you wanted to go into Judiciary later down your career? Wouldn't you like your classmates to be the ones to conduct your confirmation hearings? Also the legal field is becoming more international as we speak. If you ever want to practice internationally, HLS's reputation will put you in a place and give you resources unmatched by any other school. Idk but I have bigger ambitions in life and I think HLS is for people who like to dream big. To be sure, your life quality immediately after law school will most likely suffer a bit because of this but you will spend all your time in corporate offices anyway so why does it matter.

It's not like there are proportionally any less CCN grads in positions of power.
This all just seems like furthering a perceived prestige argument but not grounded in much.

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Re: Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein)

Postby Npret » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:41 pm

unpetitpacifiste wrote:I know TLS people are probably all gonna choose the Ruby. But just to give you some of my personal perspective as someone who likes to think in longer terms. Once you make partner at BigLaw, the $250k debt is not gonna worth even a tenth of your yearly income. Also, in 30 years, your classmates at HLS are going to be Presidents, Senators, Congressmen, Attorney-Generals, federal judges, and SCOTUS Justices etc. You mentioned you wanted to go into Judiciary later down your career? Wouldn't you like your classmates to be the ones to conduct your confirmation hearings? Also the legal field is becoming more international as we speak. If you ever want to practice internationally, HLS's reputation will put you in a place and give you resources unmatched by any other school. Idk but I have bigger ambitions in life and I think HLS is for people who like to dream big. To be sure, your life quality immediately after law school will most likely suffer a bit because of this but you will spend all your time in corporate offices anyway so why does it matter.

Yes, because all Harvard grads make partner at biglaw. And no one from Chicago will.



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