Harvard v. Columbia (Butler) v. NYU (Vanderbilt) v. Chicago (Rubenstein) Forum

[elevin]

I feel like I've seen similar situations on TLS before, but I wanted an updated, 2017 perspective.

My main goals are clerkship and NYC BigLaw. I'd probably do clerkship first, then BigLaw for a while, and hopefully someday get back into the judiciary.

I'm from NYC and went to NYU undergrad, but am not particularly attached to either. I just want to make the best decision possible. Some people I have spoken to, such as my immigrant parents and international friends, say the clear choice is Harvard because of the prestige. For me personally, no debt is extremely tempting, but if I go into BigLaw, the benefit for my clerkship goal may outweigh the debt.

I'm also considering speaking to Columbia about upping my Butler, either to a Hamilton or just somewhat higher, due to the fact that I have the Vanderbilt from NYU.

I have not yet heard back from Yale or Stanford. I honestly don't know what I'd choose if I got into one of those, so any advice on that would also be appreciated.

[waldorf]

First off, congratulations on the amazing options!

What's your estimated debt load for all of the above as of right now? That would be helpful in giving advice.

[elevin]

Thank you so much!!

Everything not covered by scholarship would be paid by loans, including housing. My parents can take care of general cost of living (food etc.) but nothing else.

So I believe it'd be something like -
Harvard: ~$265,000
Columbia: ~$150,000
NYU: ~$20,000

[waldorf]

Thank you so much!!

Everything not covered by scholarship would be paid by loans, including housing. My parents can take care of general cost of living (food etc.) but nothing else.

So I believe it'd be something like -
Harvard: ~$265,000
Columbia: ~$150,000
NYU: ~$20,000

Woahhh. That's a huge difference.

Unless something changes, or you want a unicorn job only obtainable from Harvard, I'd say NYU HANDS DOWN. Being able to graduate from an amazing school with only about 20k in loans would be such a relief! You could easily pay that off in a year or even put some summer earnings towards it.

I'd personally say that the difference between NYU and Columbia is absolutely not worth that debt, but maybe someone more familiar with the difference can chime in.

[Baby Gaga]

This is the exact same choice I'm trying to make right now so I'm very happy that you put it out there. We have different goals so I don't know how helpful this is but I'm probably gonna take the money in NYC (unless Harvard blows me away in their ASW). My plan is to go to CLS and NYU ASWs back to back, figure out how if I like CLS more and if so try to negotiate, if they won't it's gotta be NYU.

In your case I don't think HLS is quite $265,000 debt but even so CLS and NYU will get you NYC biglaw for a lot less. Harvard is better for clerkships but the other 2 are not bad on that score either.

[Rigo]

I'd take the money (NYU) and run.
Try negotiating with Columbia though.

[cavalier1138]

NYU at the current money. If you can negotiate Columbia up, that might make it a harder decision. But NYU hands-down with the current offers.

[Mikey]

NYU

[dj9i27]

20g in debt from NYU would make me pass out of how happy I'd be and Columbia is in theory my #1. take the money from NYU and enjoy the non soul-crushing debt.

[jingosaur]

Do you think you'd be eligible for financial aid at Harvard? If no, then NYU.

[neubyneu]

Jumping in given I'll have to make a very similar decision and I love hearing people's thoughts on this. I think the NYU Vanderbilt is definitely the way to go here, same with any full scholarship down to and including Northwestern.

[Rigo]

Jumping in given I'll have to make a very similar decision and I love hearing people's thoughts on this. I think the NYU Vanderbilt is definitely the way to go here, same with any full scholarship down to and including Northwestern.

FUCK YOU CORNELL

[banjo]

NYU. Gives you more freedom to leave biglaw sooner.

[canafsa]

.

[Rigo]

I presume most people who get into Harvard have the option of a full ride at a T14, but threads such a these make it seem as though HYS is never justifiable given such a choice. Is it just sons and daughters of billionaires and deluded optimists going to Harvard, or do TLS posters overlook hidden value of having one of these schools on your resume?

Dude essentially wants NYC biglaw.
Pretty generic goals here.
Is Harvard sticker really worth a 13% greater shot a clerking? (rhetorical)

[20170322]

NYU and it's not close.

Congrats on a phenomenal cycle. You should be really proud, not only for the amazing options, but also for making the most reasoned and responsible one. Enjoy!

[canafsa]

.

[elevin]

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

Do you think you'd be eligible for financial aid at Harvard? If no, then NYU.

Not eligible for any financial aid.

I presume most people who get into Harvard have the option of a full ride at a T14, but threads such a these make it seem as though HYS is never justifiable given such a choice. Is it just sons and daughters of billionaires and deluded optimists going to Harvard, or do TLS posters overlook hidden value of having one of these schools on your resume?

Dude essentially wants NYC biglaw.
Pretty generic goals here.
Is Harvard sticker really worth a 13% greater shot a clerking? (rhetorical)

Right, but would that mean HYS were only justifiable to those entering academia? Obviously relatively few HLS alum enter this field (most go big law) - are those that do not enter academia deluded to to the importance of the HYS benefit?

I've been wondering the same thing, particularly considering that on this post and similar ones it always seems to be that the scholarship wins, at least over H and S. I guess people that go to Harvard with goals of BigLaw, other than the mega-rich and deluded, might be the ~50% of HLS students that receive need-based grants?

[Rigo]

Right, but would that mean HYS were only justifiable to those entering academia? Obviously relatively few HLS alum enter this field (most go big law) - are those that do not enter academia deluded to to the importance of the HYS benefit?

Strong case can be made for committed PI people (not as much compared to NYU fully, but compared to non-Columbia NYU fully)

A lot of law students at top schools are just really well-off too so money isn't an object.

[neubyneu]

I've been wondering the same thing, particularly considering that on this post and similar ones it always seems to be that the scholarship wins, at least over H and S. I guess people that go to Harvard with goals of BigLaw, other than the mega-rich and deluded, might be the ~50% of HLS students that receive need-based grants?

I think you're more or less spot-on. The quasi-consensus I've seen is that Harvard at a need-based discount can be preferable to T14 full scholarships, though NYU is of a caliber such that I think even a high need-based grant wouldn't make that a total slam dunk.

[Baby Gaga]

I've been wondering the same thing, particularly considering that on this post and similar ones it always seems to be that the scholarship wins, at least over H and S. I guess people that go to Harvard with goals of BigLaw, other than the mega-rich and deluded, might be the ~50% of HLS students that receive need-based grants?

I think you're more or less spot-on. The quasi-consensus I've seen is that Harvard at a need-based discount can be preferable to T14 full scholarships, though NYU is of a caliber such that I think even a high need-based grant wouldn't make that a total slam dunk.

I would take Harvard over a full ride at a lot of the T14 but not NYU. It's a very personal decision though

[Alexandros]

.

[quiver]

I presume most people who get into Harvard have the option of a full ride at a T14, but threads such a these make it seem as though HYS is never justifiable given such a choice. Is it just sons and daughters of billionaires and deluded optimists going to Harvard, or do TLS posters overlook hidden value of having one of these schools on your resume?

I'm not sure that's true - T20 probably, full-ride at a T14 is harder than TLS sometimes makes it out it to be.

Also, the median amount of debt of HLS grads is around $150k. This is much less than sticker debt. So many either have aid to get debt down to that level or have rich parents that are actually willing to pay what HLS thinks they're willing to pay. $150k debt sucks, but there's a real difference between that and $300k debt, especially if you're headed for biglaw.

Also, a lot of us on this board have graduated law school and know what it's like to both work biglaw and pay back student loans. Having little/no debt is something that 0Ls generally undervalue in light of the YHS prestige blinders. With biglaw as the main goal, minimizing debt is key.

OP - Congratulations, and to echo everyone else, NYU hands down unless you can negotiate CLS up to a Hamilton.

This is 100% the answer.

[cavalier1138]

I presume most people who get into Harvard have the option of a full ride at a T14, but threads such a these make it seem as though HYS is never justifiable given such a choice. Is it just sons and daughters of billionaires and deluded optimists going to Harvard, or do TLS posters overlook hidden value of having one of these schools on your resume?

Dude essentially wants NYC biglaw.
Pretty generic goals here.
Is Harvard sticker really worth a 13% greater shot a clerking? (rhetorical)

Right, but would that mean HYS were only justifiable to those entering academia? Obviously relatively few HLS alum enter this field (most go big law) - are those that do not enter academia deluded to to the importance of the HYS benefit?

Unless they're also entering extremely competitive PI fields, then yes, they're a bit deluded. Job placement statistics don't show any significant advantage between HYS and CCN options after graduation.

But as mentioned, plenty of people go to HYS on scholarship, and a lot of the ones who don't have rich parents.

[jbagelboy]

Thanks everyone for the feedback!

Do you think you'd be eligible for financial aid at Harvard? If no, then NYU.

Not eligible for any financial aid.

I presume most people who get into Harvard have the option of a full ride at a T14, but threads such a these make it seem as though HYS is never justifiable given such a choice. Is it just sons and daughters of billionaires and deluded optimists going to Harvard, or do TLS posters overlook hidden value of having one of these schools on your resume?

Dude essentially wants NYC biglaw.
Pretty generic goals here.
Is Harvard sticker really worth a 13% greater shot a clerking? (rhetorical)

Right, but would that mean HYS were only justifiable to those entering academia? Obviously relatively few HLS alum enter this field (most go big law) - are those that do not enter academia deluded to to the importance of the HYS benefit?

I've been wondering the same thing, particularly considering that on this post and similar ones it always seems to be that the scholarship wins, at least over H and S. I guess people that go to Harvard with goals of BigLaw, other than the mega-rich and deluded, might be the ~50% of HLS students that receive need-based grants?

Most HLS admits did not receive full tuition scholarships at CCN, so they never faced this choice. The ones that do and that pick HLS usually do have family money or receive substantial need based grants.