George Washington & Need-Based Aid

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LawDude88

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George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby LawDude88 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:54 pm

Hey all,

So I got my acceptance into George Washington! Pretty sure it was a close call but thankful I made it in. That being said I didn't get any type of scholarship and was just wondering if anybody knows how generous they are with need-based aid. I'm sure I won't be paying full sticker price but I don't think $5k off a year would be much to cheer over...

Any insight would be great. I'm almost dead set on this school and just wondering how much in debt I am going to end up. Haha!

I haven't heard back from my other choices but this was my number 1!

cavalier1138

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:57 pm

Need-based aid is almost never given out, period. So apply, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Also, GW should not be your number one choice with any significant amount of debt.

LawDude88

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby LawDude88 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:01 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:Need-based aid is almost never given out, period. So apply, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Also, GW should not be your number one choice with any significant amount of debt.


Thanks!

LawDude88

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby LawDude88 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:40 pm

Do you know if George Washington is open to any form of negotiation? If I got scholarships from other schools I don't want to go to?

timbs4339

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:47 pm

Do not pay sticker debt for George Washington. Retake and they will give you a full scholarship. Serious.

favabeansoup

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby favabeansoup » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:55 pm

GW would probably negotiate if you got better scholarship packages, but only from similarly ranked schools, but it probably wouldn't drastically improve.

Highly, highly recommend not going to GW at full cost. You will end up with probably over $300,000 in debt, which is a enormous amount of money.

LawDude88

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby LawDude88 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:10 pm

timbs4339 wrote:Do not pay sticker debt for George Washington. Retake and they will give you a full scholarship. Serious.


I wish I could retake. For personal reasons I am starting in the fall and can't put it off for another year

LawDude88

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby LawDude88 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:13 pm

favabeansoup wrote:GW would probably negotiate if you got better scholarship packages, but only from similarly ranked schools, but it probably wouldn't drastically improve.

Highly, highly recommend not going to GW at full cost. You will end up with probably over $300,000 in debt, which is a enormous amount of money.


In your honest opinion, what annual tuition level should I be happy with? What level of debt do you think GW would be worth? I know it's common wisdom on TLS that it's a "trap school" but a fair share of their students DO find success afterwards. It might not be the unanimous success of a T-14 school but nevertheless is still impressive.

Thanks!

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:29 pm

LawDude88 wrote:
favabeansoup wrote:GW would probably negotiate if you got better scholarship packages, but only from similarly ranked schools, but it probably wouldn't drastically improve.

Highly, highly recommend not going to GW at full cost. You will end up with probably over $300,000 in debt, which is a enormous amount of money.


In your honest opinion, what annual tuition level should I be happy with? What level of debt do you think GW would be worth? I know it's common wisdom on TLS that it's a "trap school" but a fair share of their students DO find success afterwards. It might not be the unanimous success of a T-14 school but nevertheless is still impressive.

Thanks!


Well, what do you consider "impressive"?

I wouldn't take on more debt than you can pay off. And since GW is not likely to get you biglaw, that means I wouldn't take on more than the cost of living expenses, because you won't be earning enough to reasonably pay off anything else.

LawDude88

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby LawDude88 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:47 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
LawDude88 wrote:
favabeansoup wrote:GW would probably negotiate if you got better scholarship packages, but only from similarly ranked schools, but it probably wouldn't drastically improve.

Highly, highly recommend not going to GW at full cost. You will end up with probably over $300,000 in debt, which is a enormous amount of money.


In your honest opinion, what annual tuition level should I be happy with? What level of debt do you think GW would be worth? I know it's common wisdom on TLS that it's a "trap school" but a fair share of their students DO find success afterwards. It might not be the unanimous success of a T-14 school but nevertheless is still impressive.

Thanks!


Well, what do you consider "impressive"?

I wouldn't take on more debt than you can pay off. And since GW is not likely to get you biglaw, that means I wouldn't take on more than the cost of living expenses, because you won't be earning enough to reasonably pay off anything else.


A minimum of 25% of GW grads end up in BigLaw. It very much is a possibility of a decent portion of grads.

I appreciate your reply but I actually didn't quote you in the above post and respectfully request you not post on this thread. Thanks!

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:23 pm

LawDude88 wrote:A minimum of 25% of GW grads end up in BigLaw. It very much is a possibility of a decent portion of grads.

I appreciate your reply but I actually didn't quote you in the above post and respectfully request you not post on this thread. Thanks!


Sure thing, boss. Not sure exactly what you found objectionable about my post, but if you think that a 25% shot at biglaw is "very much a possibility", please don't go to Vegas.

Incidentally, I'd already posted in this thread above, so I'm guessing you just don't like being told things you don't want to hear. You might want to work on that now, rather than after taking out six figures in loans.

LawDude88

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby LawDude88 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:25 pm

Thanks for understanding.

cavalier1138 wrote:
LawDude88 wrote:A minimum of 25% of GW grads end up in BigLaw. It very much is a possibility of a decent portion of grads.

I appreciate your reply but I actually didn't quote you in the above post and respectfully request you not post on this thread. Thanks!


Sure thing, boss. Not sure exactly what you found objectionable about my post, but if you think that a 25% shot at biglaw is "very much a possibility", please don't go to Vegas.

Incidentally, I'd already posted in this thread above, so I'm guessing you just don't like being told things you don't want to hear. You might want to work on that now, rather than after taking out six figures in loans.

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby favabeansoup » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:29 pm

LawDude88 wrote:
favabeansoup wrote:GW would probably negotiate if you got better scholarship packages, but only from similarly ranked schools, but it probably wouldn't drastically improve.

Highly, highly recommend not going to GW at full cost. You will end up with probably over $300,000 in debt, which is a enormous amount of money.


In your honest opinion, what annual tuition level should I be happy with? What level of debt do you think GW would be worth? I know it's common wisdom on TLS that it's a "trap school" but a fair share of their students DO find success afterwards. It might not be the unanimous success of a T-14 school but nevertheless is still impressive.

Thanks!


I think $150kish or less all in, including non tuition loan cost of living, would be near the top end of acceptable to go to GW. Most of TLS is going to jump on me for going even that high, but I think with the availability of government jobs in DC where you can get loan forgiveness + biglaw chances evens out your debt options.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:46 pm

Asking someone not to post here doesn't make their advice wrong.

Npret

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby Npret » Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:50 pm

favabeansoup wrote:
LawDude88 wrote:
favabeansoup wrote:GW would probably negotiate if you got better scholarship packages, but only from similarly ranked schools, but it probably wouldn't drastically improve.

Highly, highly recommend not going to GW at full cost. You will end up with probably over $300,000 in debt, which is a enormous amount of money.


In your honest opinion, what annual tuition level should I be happy with? What level of debt do you think GW would be worth? I know it's common wisdom on TLS that it's a "trap school" but a fair share of their students DO find success afterwards. It might not be the unanimous success of a T-14 school but nevertheless is still impressive.

Thanks!


I think $150kish or less all in, including non tuition loan cost of living, would be near the top end of acceptable to go to GW. Most of TLS is going to jump on me for going even that high, but I think with the availability of government jobs in DC where you can get loan forgiveness + biglaw chances evens out your debt options.

You're not worried about government hiring over the next few years?

cavalier1138

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:59 am

Npret wrote:
favabeansoup wrote:I think $150kish or less all in, including non tuition loan cost of living, would be near the top end of acceptable to go to GW. Most of TLS is going to jump on me for going even that high, but I think with the availability of government jobs in DC where you can get loan forgiveness + biglaw chances evens out your debt options.

You're not worried about government hiring over the next few years?


In defense of fava's approach, the OP would be graduating after this administration is over. So unless we see a literal dictatorship take root (I'm not ruling that possibility out), government hiring will, if anything, be even better than it has been, because agencies will be trying to fill all the dead space created by this idiotic freeze.

That said, the OP seems to only be interested in biglaw (see prior comments about 25% of the class getting it), so I'm not sure how relevant the government-for-10-years-to-PSLF track is for them.

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby favabeansoup » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:38 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
Npret wrote:
favabeansoup wrote:I think $150kish or less all in, including non tuition loan cost of living, would be near the top end of acceptable to go to GW. Most of TLS is going to jump on me for going even that high, but I think with the availability of government jobs in DC where you can get loan forgiveness + biglaw chances evens out your debt options.

You're not worried about government hiring over the next few years?


In defense of fava's approach, the OP would be graduating after this administration is over. So unless we see a literal dictatorship take root (I'm not ruling that possibility out), government hiring will, if anything, be even better than it has been, because agencies will be trying to fill all the dead space created by this idiotic freeze.

That said, the OP seems to only be interested in biglaw (see prior comments about 25% of the class getting it), so I'm not sure how relevant the government-for-10-years-to-PSLF track is for them.


Hiring freeze definitely is a worry, and can and should affect D.C. area school decisions. In my totally government layman understanding , I can see the logic in there being massive federal hiring 4 years from now with an administration change. You're right though that political violatility is never something one should depend on going to law school. Probably a lot of GW 1Ls who are suddenly feeling lost with this freeze.

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby Npret » Wed Feb 22, 2017 6:52 am

favabeansoup wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Npret wrote:
favabeansoup wrote:I think $150kish or less all in, including non tuition loan cost of living, would be near the top end of acceptable to go to GW. Most of TLS is going to jump on me for going even that high, but I think with the availability of government jobs in DC where you can get loan forgiveness + biglaw chances evens out your debt options.

You're not worried about government hiring over the next few years?


In defense of fava's approach, the OP would be graduating after this administration is over. So unless we see a literal dictatorship take root (I'm not ruling that possibility out), government hiring will, if anything, be even better than it has been, because agencies will be trying to fill all the dead space created by this idiotic freeze.

That said, the OP seems to only be interested in biglaw (see prior comments about 25% of the class getting it), so I'm not sure how relevant the government-for-10-years-to-PSLF track is for them.


Hiring freeze definitely is a worry, and can and should affect D.C. area school decisions. In my totally government layman understanding , I can see the logic in there being massive federal hiring 4 years from now with an administration change. You're right though that political violatility is never something one should depend on going to law school. Probably a lot of GW 1Ls who are suddenly feeling lost with this freeze.


I wouldn't count on massive hiring. The hiring freeze at the DOJ during the recession didn't turn into massive hiring when it ended. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel that basically people tried to get back where they were pre-freeze gradually, not by hiring huge numbers of people. Eric Holder announced that they lost 4,000 jobs by the end of the freeze, I just don't recall them hiring fast to fill those spots. Maybe someone can check.

My thinking is that there won't suddenly be a massive push to increase budgets and spending regardless who ends up in power in 4 years. There isn't a good deal of public support to increase federal spending from either side.

I feel going to law school in part relying on government jobs is a mistake when we have no idea how hiring is going to work, other than it's going to be different than it has the past two years and may likely be closer to the 3 year budgetary freeze that DOJ just went through.

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby favabeansoup » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:21 am

Npret wrote:
I wouldn't count on massive hiring. The hiring freeze at the DOJ during the recession didn't turn into massive hiring when it ended. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel that basically people tried to get back where they were pre-freeze gradually, not by hiring huge numbers of people. Eric Holder announced that they lost 4,000 jobs by the end of the freeze, I just don't recall them hiring fast to fill those spots. Maybe someone can check.

My thinking is that there won't suddenly be a massive push to increase budgets and spending regardless who ends up in power in 4 years. There isn't a good deal of public support to increase federal spending from either side.

I feel going to law school in part relying on government jobs is a mistake when we have no idea how hiring is going to work, other than it's going to be different than it has the past two years and may likely be closer to the 3 year budgetary freeze that DOJ just went through.


You are right. I wasn't well versed in the numbers/data about how previous freezes dealt with post-freeze hiring. Definitely agree that "relying" on government work is the wrong mindset to have in approaching any law school decision, as even if there wasn't a freeze those positions are competitive.

Besides the point for OP though, because he's not turning a sticker price admission into the substantial enough scholarship where this might merit discussion from negotiation alone.

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby CR7 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:41 am

LawDude88 wrote:Hey all,

So I got my acceptance into George Washington! Pretty sure it was a close call but thankful I made it in. That being said I didn't get any type of scholarship and was just wondering if anybody knows how generous they are with need-based aid. I'm sure I won't be paying full sticker price but I don't think $5k off a year would be much to cheer over...

Any insight would be great. I'm almost dead set on this school and just wondering how much in debt I am going to end up. Haha!

I haven't heard back from my other choices but this was my number 1!


Do you have a tech or engineering background?

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:56 am

LawDude88 wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:Do not pay sticker debt for George Washington. Retake and they will give you a full scholarship. Serious.


I wish I could retake. For personal reasons I am starting in the fall and can't put it off for another year


What are these personal reasons? It is almost always something that doesn't really prevent a retake, like "I want to get on with my life" or "my parents are being really annoying about it."

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Feb 22, 2017 9:58 am

Npret wrote:I wouldn't count on massive hiring. The hiring freeze at the DOJ during the recession didn't turn into massive hiring when it ended. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel that basically people tried to get back where they were pre-freeze gradually, not by hiring huge numbers of people. Eric Holder announced that they lost 4,000 jobs by the end of the freeze, I just don't recall them hiring fast to fill those spots. Maybe someone can check.

FWIW, I get various job search alerts from USAjobs, and there actually were a lot of openings posted as soon as the freeze ended, since agencies had had to wait and gone chronically understaffed. I don't think anyone should rely on that happening again, though - too much reading the tea leaves.

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby Rigo » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:50 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
Npret wrote:
favabeansoup wrote:I think $150kish or less all in, including non tuition loan cost of living, would be near the top end of acceptable to go to GW. Most of TLS is going to jump on me for going even that high, but I think with the availability of government jobs in DC where you can get loan forgiveness + biglaw chances evens out your debt options.

You're not worried about government hiring over the next few years?


In defense of fava's approach, the OP would be graduating after this administration is over. So unless we see a literal dictatorship take root (I'm not ruling that possibility out), government hiring will, if anything, be even better than it has been, because agencies will be trying to fill all the dead space created by this idiotic freeze.

That said, the OP seems to only be interested in biglaw (see prior comments about 25% of the class getting it), so I'm not sure how relevant the government-for-10-years-to-PSLF track is for them.

Trump will still be president when OP graduates (unless he's removed/he quits/he dies).

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:58 pm

Rigo wrote:Trump will still be president when OP graduates (unless he's removed/he quits/he dies).


Not to nitpick, but OP will be class of 2021 (assuming the OP continues with the "I must attend law school next year at all costs" mentality). So even if none of those hoped-for-but-unlikely events occurs, Trump's first term will be over, and no matter how much you think people underestimated "Middle America" this election, I don't see a second term in his future.

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Re: George Washington & Need-Based Aid

Postby Rigo » Wed Feb 22, 2017 1:05 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Rigo wrote:Trump will still be president when OP graduates (unless he's removed/he quits/he dies).


Not to nitpick, but OP will be class of 2021 (assuming the OP continues with the "I must attend law school next year at all costs" mentality). So even if none of those hoped-for-but-unlikely events occurs, Trump's first term will be over, and no matter how much you think people underestimated "Middle America" this election, I don't see a second term in his future.

By next year, I'm pretty sure they mean this falll. Otherwise they wouldn't have applied this cycle.



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